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Post by aztec70 on May 4, 2011 12:07:35 GMT -8
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Post by Yoda on May 4, 2011 17:01:48 GMT -8
"Wall Street’s insatiable greed"? Really? I don't think so. Defined benefit plans are great. The problem is, they're expensive. As we have increasingly came to live in a global economy, they became a huge and unaffordable expense. I recognize that 401(k) plans were intended to supplement pensions and to offer an alternative to people who didn't have pension plans -- but that rather than supplementing them, they have come to replace them. However, I would dispute the claim that "Defined benefit plans are much more secure than 401(k)s, which end when the money runs out." The fact is, defined benefit plans end when the money runs out as well -- we have huge unfunded pension liability problems in this country. These "greedy" firms tried to maintain their pension plans far longer than they could afford to do so. I would argue that 401(k) plans might even offer more security because you can take it with you when you leave a firm. I remember reading once that a person in my generation was likely to hold seven post college jobs while a person of this generation is likely to hold seven post college careers. Companies -- indeed, entire industries -- are born, become huge, become obsolete and become extinct in 10 years or less. Raise your hands if you want to have your pension in Lehman Brothers, WorldCom or Enron. Yes the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation is there as a backstop but, like all backstops, there are caps that limit recovery. I often rail against the conservative websites that misstate, exaggerate and exploit pre-existing biases. It is nice to see somebody link to a liberal article that does the same thing. Gives me street cred when I proclaim my "radically moderate" beliefs to have been able to criticize the extremes of both sides. Yoda out... |
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Post by aztec70 on May 4, 2011 19:35:24 GMT -8
"Wall Street’s insatiable greed"? Really? I don't think so. Defined benefit plans are great. The problem is, they're expensive. As we have increasingly came to live in a global economy, they became a huge and unaffordable expense. I recognize that 401(k) plans were intended to supplement pensions and to offer an alternative to people who didn't have pension plans -- but that rather than supplementing them, they have come to replace them. However, I would dispute the claim that "Defined benefit plans are much more secure than 401(k)s, which end when the money runs out." The fact is, defined benefit plans end when the money runs out as well -- we have huge unfunded pension liability problems in this country. These "greedy" firms tried to maintain their pension plans far longer than they could afford to do so. I would argue that 401(k) plans might even offer more security because you can take it with you when you leave a firm. I remember reading once that a person in my generation was likely to hold seven post college jobs while a person of this generation is likely to hold seven post college careers. Companies -- indeed, entire industries -- are born, become huge, become obsolete and become extinct in 10 years or less. Raise your hands if you want to have your pension in Lehman Brothers, WorldCom or Enron. Yes the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation is there as a backstop but, like all backstops, there are caps that limit recovery. I often rail against the conservative websites that misstate, exaggerate and exploit pre-existing biases. It is nice to see somebody link to a liberal article that does the same thing. Gives me street cred when I proclaim my "radically moderate" beliefs to have been able to criticize the extremes of both sides. Yoda out... Yeah, it is a bit over the top, but if William and aztecwin can post their tomfoolery I thought I would reply in kind.  I have decided to start posting from left wing political sites just to annoy them.  However, if you don't think Wall Street is greedy you should think some more. I have had a Series 7 securitys license for more than 20 years and am a Registered Representative of a large financial services firm. I stopped going to my broker-dealer conventions years ago. It was always how to make money from our clients, not for our clients. I recognize greed when I see it. |
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Post by Yoda on May 4, 2011 20:15:30 GMT -8
However, if you don't think Wall Street is greedy you should think some more. I have had a Series 7 securitys license for more than 20 years and am a Registered Representative of a large financial services firm. I stopped going to my broker-dealer conventions years ago. It was always how to make money from our clients, not for our clients. I recognize greed when I see it. I agree that Wall Street is greedy. In fact most every street is greedy -- I know mine is. Wall Street is just very, very good at it. In fact, it's waaaaaay better than my street is. But I digress... I just don't think that every action is the result of greed. The players on Wall Street probably used to have pensions and now don't. That's just a guess; a lot of financial services folks have lost their pensions. In any event, they wouldn't have been leading the charge to get rid of pensions. There's greed and there's need. In this case, I think that businesses needed to cut the expense of pensions in order to stay competitive in the world market. Yoda out... |
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Post by aztec70 on May 5, 2011 7:43:28 GMT -8
[quote author=yoda board=np thread=13099 post=200552 time=1304568930
[/quote]
I think that businesses needed to cut the expense of pensions in order to stay competitive in the world market.
Yoda out...
[/quote]
That's true. It is not only the expense of pensions that have been cut to stay competitive in the world market, it was employees. Our labor costs are higher than 2nd world countrys so our manufacturing jobs have been slashed. Service sector jobs are on the block now. Been dealing with customer service in India lately?
This is one of the root causes of unemployment in our country. What do we do? To compete do we have to pay our people much less than their grandparents made? Do we have to become a 2nd world country to be able to have our people have jobs? A few rich, and many poor? I don't like that picture.
What I want to see is the rest of the world come up to 1st world living standards. Don't we all?
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I have decided to start posting from left wing political sites just to annoy them. 