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Post by AztecWilliam on Apr 26, 2011 12:41:46 GMT -8
May I suggest that this is not a good trend. As more and more Americans pay little or nothing in income taxes, it is inevitable that they will be convinced by political demagogues that those who do pay the vast bulk of taxes should pay more . . . and more, and more . . . regardless of how those taxes impact the economy. www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-04-26-government-payments-economy-medicare.htmAzWm |
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Post by aztecwin on Apr 26, 2011 15:17:06 GMT -8
The big problem is that they can vote for people who will want to take a bigger chunk from those who do pay. The tax code needs a huge overhaul.
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Post by Yoda on Apr 29, 2011 19:00:23 GMT -8
May I suggest that this is not a good trend. As more and more Americans pay little or nothing in income taxes, it is inevitable that they will be convinced by political demagogues that those who do pay the vast bulk of taxes should pay more . . . and more, and more . . . regardless of how those taxes impact the economy. AzWm Between the indexing of social security to inflation and the reduction of the top income tax bracket rates from more than 90% during the fast growing 1950's to 35% now, there has been a tremendous transfer of resources from the young to the old. I can't find the statistic so this won't be entirely accurate but as I recall it, between 1969 and 1989, the young went from being the wealthiest demographic to the poorest and the elderly went from being the poorest demographic to being the richest. A nation that fails to invest in its young is doomed to fall. Especially when it blames the young. Yoda out... |
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Post by The Great Aztec Joe on Apr 30, 2011 5:52:31 GMT -8
All the above comments underline ONE glaring fact. That is: We ain't got no middle class no mo'.
Used ta have one, but it got up and went to China.
We need to find a middle class and firmly establish it in our country. Whatever our policies are that made our middle class flee have to be reversed. We should have done that yesterday, but TODAY would be fine. We definitely can not wait until tomorrow, because the riots will start and it will be too late then.
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Post by The Great Aztec Joe on Apr 30, 2011 5:56:52 GMT -8
In a way, the riots have already started. On the East Coast, bands of unemployed youth are targeting stores. Twenty or more will drive up to a parking lot, all get out of their cars and assemble in front of the targeted store and then rush in and grab all of the high price items they can find and run out of the store to their cars and drive away. This is happening with frequency, and 911 calls do not good as the police usually arrive about ten minutes too late. Store after store is being forced into closing. I guess you could call this a sort of slow motion riot. The end result is the same.
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Post by inevitec on Apr 30, 2011 6:42:00 GMT -8
With an 8.9% unemployment rate and the resulting unemployment claims, which no one seems to be addressing-with jobs, the loss of health insurance coverage, etc., it should be no surprise to even a well educated chimpanzee that there would be more people on government assistance under these circumstances.
Once again, you are taking a situation caused by an economic situation- a situation that should be temporary- and is certainly beyond most people's control and you are trying to create the impression that those lazy slackers are destroying us and will cause you to pay too much in tax.
If we go back to Clinton's tax rates, hardly a death blow to free enterprise, stimulate the economy back to something resembling normal, and dump a couple of wars, we would not have a significant deficit.
I don't care if you don't want to pay taxes. I don't care if you don't want to pay taxes. The solutions in the preceding paragraph will work and the rate of government assistance will go down.
Why not be part of the solution instead of crying about taxes all the time.
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Post by aztecwin on Apr 30, 2011 7:28:30 GMT -8
With an 8.9% unemployment rate and the resulting unemployment claims, which no one seems to be addressing-with jobs, the loss of health insurance coverage, etc., it should be no surprise to even a well educated chimpanzee that there would be more people on government assistance under these circumstances. Once again, you are taking a situation caused by an economic situation- a situation that should be temporary- and is certainly beyond most people's control and you are trying to create the impression that those lazy slackers are destroying us and will cause you to pay too much in tax. If we go back to Clinton's tax rates, hardly a death blow to free enterprise, stimulate the economy back to something resembling normal, and dump a couple of wars, we would not have a significant deficit. I don't care if you don't want to pay taxes. I don't care if you don't want to pay taxes. The solutions in the preceding paragraph will work and the rate of government assistance will go down. Why not be part of the solution instead of crying about taxes all the time. You seem reluctant to address the current problem and situation. It is just plain and simple. Obama is in so far over his head that he knows not what to do. The administration and Bernacke have decided to try to inflate our way out of the problem and at the same time hide that inflation by obscuring the condition by changing the way we measure inflation. When you talk about raising taxes, you just compound the problem. We need to cut government spending to the point it really hurts us all a little and we can then start to grow our way out of the near depression and run away inflation that we are suffering. Just look at the price of sugar, fuel, gold and silver to see how the dollar is eroded. You can try to blame Reagan, Bush, Clinton or whoever and it will not change the condition we are in and the inability of Obama to cope. |
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Post by The Great Aztec Joe on Apr 30, 2011 9:01:16 GMT -8
With an 8.9% unemployment rate and the resulting unemployment claims, which no one seems to be addressing-with jobs, the loss of health insurance coverage, etc., it should be no surprise to even a well educated chimpanzee that there would be more people on government assistance under these circumstances. Once again, you are taking a situation caused by an economic situation- a situation that should be temporary- and is certainly beyond most people's control and you are trying to create the impression that those lazy slackers are destroying us and will cause you to pay too much in tax. If we go back to Clinton's tax rates, hardly a death blow to free enterprise, stimulate the economy back to something resembling normal, and dump a couple of wars, we would not have a significant deficit. I don't care if you don't want to pay taxes. I don't care if you don't want to pay taxes. The solutions in the preceding paragraph will work and the rate of government assistance will go down. Why not be part of the solution instead of crying about taxes all the time. You seem reluctant to address the current problem and situation. It is just plain and simple. Obama is in so far over his head that he knows not what to do. The administration and Bernacke have decided to try to inflate our way out of the problem and at the same time hide that inflation by obscuring the condition by changing the way we measure inflation. When you talk about raising taxes, you just compound the problem. We need to cut government spending to the point it really hurts us all a little and we can then start to grow our way out of the near depression and run away inflation that we are suffering. Just look at the price of sugar, fuel, gold and silver to see how the dollar is eroded. You can try to blame Reagan, Bush, Clinton or whoever and it will not change the condition we are in and the inability of Obama to cope. Win, Win, Win, you seem so lost! A substantial amount of this government spending is directed at putting people back to work. Now, I know you are educated enought to understand the concept of borrowing from the FED at ZERO interest. We have been doing that for generations, and it makes for wonderful programs that have kept national employment far above that of other countries. It is a damn good deal that does not increase your taxes. You need to wake up to reality and learn to enjoy the debt. |
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Post by aztecwin on Apr 30, 2011 13:20:05 GMT -8
You seem reluctant to address the current problem and situation. It is just plain and simple. Obama is in so far over his head that he knows not what to do. The administration and Bernacke have decided to try to inflate our way out of the problem and at the same time hide that inflation by obscuring the condition by changing the way we measure inflation. When you talk about raising taxes, you just compound the problem. We need to cut government spending to the point it really hurts us all a little and we can then start to grow our way out of the near depression and run away inflation that we are suffering. Just look at the price of sugar, fuel, gold and silver to see how the dollar is eroded. You can try to blame Reagan, Bush, Clinton or whoever and it will not change the condition we are in and the inability of Obama to cope. Win, Win, Win, you seem so lost! A substantial amount of this government spending is directed at putting people back to work. Now, I know you are educated enought to understand the concept of borrowing from the FED at ZERO interest. We have been doing that for generations, and it makes for wonderful programs that have kept national employment far above that of other countries. It is a damn good deal that does not increase your taxes. You need to wake up to reality and learn to enjoy the debt. I guess that I just can't get my arms around your infatuation with how The Fed creates money. I get hung up with seeing that idea manifest itself in the higher prices I pay for corn, beef and sugar. I guess that I would care much less if I got some food stamps or EBT in the mail and traded that for corn. Instead, I have to cash a dividend check and trade cash for that corn. Bummer! |
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Post by AztecWilliam on May 1, 2011 11:30:02 GMT -8
Virtually nobody paid 90% in the '50s. The rich have ways to shelter huge amounts of their income (tax free munies, e.g.). Those who want to raise taxes on the "rich" seem not to understand that raising taxes does not automatically bring in more revenue to the govt.
In fact, raising taxes and more restrictive regulation at some point have the opposite effect; Namely, the economy suffers and tax revenues actually decline. We see this in Obama's actions in the Gulf of Mexico (while at the same time he is praising the Brazilians for doing just what he does not want to do here). The unwillingness of the Democrats, years ago, to allow drilling off-shore and in ANWAR* has robbed us of extra petroleum supplies that undoubtedly would have helped reduce the price of gasoline at the local service station.
Let's keep in mind that we have a President who thinks that, even if it does not make economic sense, corporations should be taxed more on the grounds of "fairness." WTF is that kind of thinking?! Is it fair to make U.S. corporations operate at a disadvantage compared with companies in other countries? Is it fair to ask investors, millions of whom are of modest means (and invest via mutual funds) to take a hit to their retirement plans to satisfy some airy-fairy idea of "social justice"?
And Joe, there surely is a middle class. Depends on how you define middle class, of course. Being married to a PhD sociologist has made me aware that when the term "middle class" is used, it generally is used in place of the more appropriate term "middle income." If one uses the latter term, of course there is a middle class and always will be. Just how well the middle class is doing compared to earlier decades is another question.
The Left is in an uproar about how the rich (really the super rich, those whose wealth is in the hundreds of millions of dollars) are getting richer. Please understand, I am not completely comfortable with one person having assets equal to the combined assets of thousands of middle income Americans. However, unless those rich are breaking the law in the course of building their fortunes I am not really too upset about the whole thing. And I am surely not going to sign on to any plan designed to even the score based on some fuzzy concept of "social justice."
The government can do the best for the average citizen by creating a climate in which industrious people with good ideas can start and expand new companies that will employ many workers while at the same time offer the public valuable products and services.
AzWm
* Yes, I know, Jeb Bush collaborated with those who think we should stop using fossil fuels and all walk or bike to work. Just proves that damned-foolishness is not an exclusive characteristic of the Left.
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