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Post by aztecwin on Apr 19, 2011 17:36:40 GMT -8
Found your soft spot, but have been asked to leave you alone so I won't go after you much any more. Oh please Pooh - that's just about the most pathetic response I've ever seen from you. Soft spot? Don't think so, old man, given that in your dotage you aren't any taller than I am. I do notice that you offer no response to my question as to whether you ever lettered in any sport. Sorry, but you didn't find my "soft spot"; I found yours. Apparently you were some sort of geek in HS, picked on by the jocks, and to this day you are unwilling to admit the simple fact that you were incapable of playing any sport. There's nothing wrong with admitting you were a geek stuck in a state that didn't appreciate geeks but I think at your advanced age you really should get over it. =Bob LOL Hard to respond to things like that without sounding pompous. Just lets say I lettered in two sports in High School and played inter-service Football till 30 and inter-service Fast Pitch Softball till 33. You could cut me off at the knees and you would still have to look up to look me in the eyes. Tennis? LOL I told William that I would take it easy on you, but you make it real hard with your childish rants. |
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Post by aztec70 on Apr 19, 2011 18:01:15 GMT -8
Here is a scenario, afan. Widow, age 74, she and her husband bought a house in the mid 1960's and it is paid off. She is living on a $9,000.00 a year pension, has $8,500.00 a year in Social Security, and since she and her departed husband were frugal and saved their money she has $10,000.00 a year in dividends and $1,500.00 in interest that she earned last year. Interest used to be more, but interest on CDs is so poor these days. She owes no tax. Is she a Zombie Vampire Tick Leech? Does she not live in the same community as me? Does she not drive on the same Interstate? She in fact costs society more than me because she more than likely avails herself of more of the "free" services society offers. So the DIRECT answer to your stupid f****** question is YES. Everyone should pay some level of income tax if they have an income. EVERYONE. Is that clear enough? Pay taxes or forfeit your right to vote. Now answer my question; When do YOU start giving a $#!+ about future generations? Where does it stop? How many people do YOU think should be able to derive their source of income from the hard work of others? How much of MY money am I supposed to donate to the ZVTL Army. 10%? 50% 90% when will one of you liberal Nanny Staters have the courage to stand up and say exactly how much of a slave the rest of us are supposed to be? Are we only 50% slave? 60%? 90% ? The little old lady pays property taxes on her house. If she is driving on the freeway then she pays gas tax and sales tax at the pump and property tax on her car. She pays sales taxes at the stores when she shops. She is supporting her community with her taxes. |
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Post by aztec70 on Apr 19, 2011 18:06:38 GMT -8
Does she not live in the same community as me? Does she not drive on the same Interstate? She in fact costs society more than me because she more than likely avails herself of more of the "free" services society offers. So the DIRECT answer to your stupid f****** question is YES. Everyone should pay some level of income tax if they have an income. EVERYONE. Is that clear enough? Pay taxes or forfeit your right to vote. Now answer my question; When do YOU start giving a $#!+ about future generations? Where does it stop? How many people do YOU think should be able to derive their source of income from the hard work of others? How much of MY money am I supposed to donate to the ZVTL Army. 10%? 50% 90% when will one of you liberal Nanny Staters have the courage to stand up and say exactly how much of a slave the rest of us are supposed to be? Are we only 50% slave? 60%? 90% ? I stand corrected, but I will bet that AFAN and I would both agree 100% that a flat tax would be agreeable to us both. Flip flopper.   |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2011 20:13:48 GMT -8
Does she not live in the same community as me? Does she not drive on the same Interstate? She in fact costs society more than me because she more than likely avails herself of more of the "free" services society offers. So the DIRECT answer to your stupid f****** question is YES. Everyone should pay some level of income tax if they have an income. EVERYONE. Is that clear enough? Pay taxes or forfeit your right to vote. Now answer my question; When do YOU start giving a $#!+ about future generations? Where does it stop? How many people do YOU think should be able to derive their source of income from the hard work of others? How much of MY money am I supposed to donate to the ZVTL Army. 10%? 50% 90% when will one of you liberal Nanny Staters have the courage to stand up and say exactly how much of a slave the rest of us are supposed to be? Are we only 50% slave? 60%? 90% ? The little old lady pays property taxes on her house. If she is driving on the freeway then she pays gas tax and sales tax at the pump and property tax on her car. She pays sales taxes at the stores when she shops. She is supporting her community with her taxes. Answer my questions you liberal coward! How much do I need to pay? How many Freeloaders should we have? |
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Post by aztec70 on Apr 20, 2011 6:55:37 GMT -8
The little old lady pays property taxes on her house. If she is driving on the freeway then she pays gas tax and sales tax at the pump and property tax on her car. She pays sales taxes at the stores when she shops. She is supporting her community with her taxes. Answer my questions you liberal coward! How much do I need to pay? How many Freeloaders should we have? Why, afan, do you think that this woman who has paid for her home, saved money for her elder years, is a "Freeloader"? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2011 9:46:32 GMT -8
Answer my questions you liberal coward! How much do I need to pay? How many Freeloaders should we have? Why, afan, do you think that this woman who has paid for her home, saved money for her elder years, is a "Freeloader"? It's pretty simple really; she's not paying income tax. I too am saving for my retirement and have paid for my home yet I'm also paying income tax. The issue is fairness and incentive. If you pay no income tax, advocating policies that have the effect of increasing the tax burden of others is really quite simple. Having a society so starkly and ever increasingly equally divided between those that pay taxes and those that do not pay taxes creates a significant Moral Hazard on the societal level. What is the incentive of those that pay no income tax to advocate sound fiscal policy? The answer is there is none and depending upon how much of their income is derived of indirect transfers from those who do pay taxes, there is a strong disincentive. Like I asked earlier; What does our society look like when those not contributing outnumber those who do? The contributors at that point are effectively slaves. This may be the America to which liberals aspire, it just be an unintended consequence of the policies they advocate. It doesn't matter. If it isn't fixed, America as we know it will cease to exist. I'll admit that "freeloader" may be a bit harsh as well as some of my other more "colorful" characterizations. In any compassionate society, she would not be forced to contribute as much as someone like me but she should at least contribute so that the consequences of her vote and the policies she advocates are felt by her; not just the nebulous "others". I don't know about you, but 43% is a scary number especially combined with those who derive their income directly from the government. I fear we may have already reached the tipping point. |
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Post by aztec70 on Apr 20, 2011 10:44:44 GMT -8
So income tax is the crucial issue, afan? The other taxes she pays have no weight? I find that hard to fathom. If income tax was the only tax that counted, then someone getting a million dollars a year from municipal bonds would be a "freeloader". Is that not a logical conclusion from your definition?
Thank you for the reasonable tone of your post.
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Post by inevitec on Apr 20, 2011 11:40:19 GMT -8
The little old lady pays property taxes on her house. If she is driving on the freeway then she pays gas tax and sales tax at the pump and property tax on her car. She pays sales taxes at the stores when she shops. She is supporting her community with her taxes. Answer my questions you liberal coward! How much do I need to pay? How many Freeloaders should we have? Well, we are angry with a theoretical person who lives your dream of no taxation aren't we? I get it! You get mad at someone who has what you want and you are envious. "liberal coward" Are you always this dyspeptic? With your attitude we would still be chasing impala. Civilization blossomed when humans began to care for their aged. I guess "Lucy" is your hero-or do you hate her too? She paid no taxes. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2011 11:41:20 GMT -8
So income tax is the crucial issue, afan? The other taxes she pays have no weight? I find that hard to fathom. If income tax was the only tax that counted, then someone getting a million dollars a year from municipal bonds would be a "freeloader". Is that not a logical conclusion from your definition? Thank you for the reasonable tone of your post. All taxes are crucial and I've gone down your rabbit hole far enough. You continue to duck my questions: What percentage of the population should be immune from paying income tax How much should I have to pay as a percentage of my income in order to fund the ZVTL Army? no further replies until you answer. |
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Post by inevitec on Apr 20, 2011 11:46:44 GMT -8
So income tax is the crucial issue, afan? The other taxes she pays have no weight? I find that hard to fathom. If income tax was the only tax that counted, then someone getting a million dollars a year from municipal bonds would be a "freeloader". Is that not a logical conclusion from your definition? Thank you for the reasonable tone of your post. All taxes are crucial and I've gone down your rabbit hole far enough. You continue to duck my questions: What percentage of the population should be immune from paying income tax How much should I have to pay as a percentage of my income in order to fund the ZVTL Army? no further replies until you answer. ' If GE can pay nothing, if the rich can pay 40% less, then Grandma can pay nothing, because she uses fewer of our collective resources than the aforementioned liquid types. Fix GE and I will buy some of your specious argument-not! "no further replies until you answer."Can we at least have the ball? |
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Post by aztec70 on Apr 20, 2011 11:54:39 GMT -8
So income tax is the crucial issue, afan? The other taxes she pays have no weight? I find that hard to fathom. If income tax was the only tax that counted, then someone getting a million dollars a year from municipal bonds would be a "freeloader". Is that not a logical conclusion from your definition? Thank you for the reasonable tone of your post. All taxes are crucial and I've gone down your rabbit hole far enough. You continue to duck my questions: What percentage of the population should be immune from paying income tax How much should I have to pay as a percentage of my income in order to fund the ZVTL Army? no further replies until you answer. 1) I don't know. Certainly open for discussion. 2) The question is argumentative and will be ignored. |
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Post by davdesid on Apr 20, 2011 15:52:52 GMT -8
JMO, but I think EVERYONE should pay federal income tax, if they have an income above some de minimus amount, say 1K or so. It doesn't have to be very much for people like the dear old lady, maybe 1% of gross or even less. A kind of AMT for everyone, even the poor.
Our president said everyone should "have some skin in the game."
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Post by AztecBill on Apr 20, 2011 16:03:43 GMT -8
Lower the tax rates for corporations and all humans. Then close every single loophole available. Some peoples loopholes are other peoples legitimate deductions. For example: A person owns a second home which they rent. The rent is $1300 a month. They have a mortgage on that home of $1,000 a month and pay $230 a month in home owners associations fees. They also pay about $2,000 a year in maintenance and $3,000 a year in property taxes. Do they pay taxes on the income $1,300 x 12 months, or do they get to deduct some of those other expenses? Are those loopholes? Who decides? |
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Post by AztecWilliam on Apr 20, 2011 21:08:01 GMT -8
JMO, but I think EVERYONE should pay federal income tax, if they have an income above some de minimus amount, say 1K or so. It doesn't have to be very much for people like the dear old lady, maybe 1% of gross or even less. A kind of AMT for everyone, even the poor. Our president said everyone should "have some skin in the game." Well said. I concur. Here is something else. Not only should everyone pay at least a very small token amount in income tax, they should also have to write a personal check on or before April 15th each year. Withholding was initiated so that the govt. would get the money and the taxpayer would have to justify getting some of it back by submitting an income tax return. By getting a little bit back, taxpayers get that momentary rush and think they are better off. This tends to mask the real impact of taxation. However, if every single person who earns above the minimum amount of income had to sign that check, many more citizens would start asking questions. This business of tens of millions of people who pay absolutely zero is really very bad. It just strengthens the tendency for America to divide itself into distinct classes; a kind of fiscal tribal society, so to speak. As this discussion here illustrates, there are plenty of people who work hard and are by no means rich who are really beginning to resent having to have some of their money given to poor people. That feeling is quite understandable even though many poor people are not lazy bums. On the other hand, the very poor already have largely bought into the idea, fostered by the Left, that they are poor because the more affluent (which, ironically, may mean folks who make only a few tens of thousand dollars more per year) have screwed them over. Remember, to a person who has very limited education and gets by through working at unsteady minimum wage jobs, someone who makes 50-60K per year is wealthy. My wife and I are a case in point. We have pensions and some income from other sources, live in a nice house with a pool and close to an acre of property, and own three vehicles, two of which are paid for. Yet we keep asking ourselves why, with a fair amount coming in, we always seem to have so little left over to enjoy our golden years. In no way do we feel wealthy. On the other hand, to a poor stiff hoping his 20K a year job doesn't disappear, we are rich. I understand that. What I can't accept, however, is that the government encourages that feeling of envy by its policies. Again, everybody should pay at least a small amount ($100, $200, ?). And he or she should have to write that check every April 15th so that the questions of what the govt. takes in and whether it is spent wisely are never far from mind. AzWm |
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Post by aztec70 on Apr 21, 2011 7:36:16 GMT -8
JMO, but I think EVERYONE should pay federal income tax, if they have an income above some de minimus amount, say 1K or so. It doesn't have to be very much for people like the dear old lady, maybe 1% of gross or even less. A kind of AMT for everyone, even the poor. Our president said everyone should "have some skin in the game." Once again I ask, do the taxes paid though sales, real and personal property taxes, not count? Is it only income tax that gives skin in the game? Why is income tax special? |
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Post by aztec70 on Apr 21, 2011 7:51:49 GMT -8
William, those of us that are self employed write checks four times a year. They are called estimated tax payments. Perhaps you were a W-2 slug all of your working life and don't know.  |
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Post by aztec70 on Apr 21, 2011 7:53:12 GMT -8
Some peoples loopholes are other peoples legitimate deductions. For example: A person owns a second home which they rent. The rent is $1300 a month. They have a mortgage on that home of $1,000 a month and pay $230 a month in home owners associations fees. They also pay about $2,000 a year in maintenance and $3,000 a year in property taxes. Do they pay taxes on the income $1,300 x 12 months, or do they get to deduct some of those other expenses? Are those loopholes? Who decides? They get the equity. If there's no equity, then they've taken a financial risk (a key aspect of the free market). It's a loophole. Sorry, John, those are rental expenses. |
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Post by aztecwin on Apr 21, 2011 10:54:18 GMT -8
William, those of us that are self employed write checks four times a year. They are called estimated tax payments. Perhaps you were a W-2 slug all of your working life and don't know. You can be a "W-2 slug" and still have to file your estimated tax form and payment if you have income from dividends. Did you learn to call folks slugs from Obama? |
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Post by aztec70 on Apr 21, 2011 11:11:58 GMT -8
William, those of us that are self employed write checks four times a year. They are called estimated tax payments. Perhaps you were a W-2 slug all of your working life and don't know. You can be a "W-2 slug" and still have to file your estimated tax form and payment if you have income from dividends. Did you learn to call folks slugs from Obama? No, I learned it from William.  |
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Post by davdesid on Apr 21, 2011 12:14:41 GMT -8
JMO, but I think EVERYONE should pay federal income tax, if they have an income above some de minimus amount, say 1K or so. It doesn't have to be very much for people like the dear old lady, maybe 1% of gross or even less. A kind of AMT for everyone, even the poor. Our president said everyone should "have some skin in the game." Once again I ask, do the taxes paid though sales, real and personal property taxes, not count? Is it only income tax that gives skin in the game? Why is income tax special? Of course they count. But they go to fund state and local governments. Everyone should have some "skin" in the federal "franchise" as well. |
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