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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2011 20:06:45 GMT -8
So you have no idea and all you're really doing is parroting something you heard Rick Maddow say on MSNBC. Got it... Actually I saw the start while I was in business school in the 1970's. When my professors told me that as a business manager I should only pay attention to the needs of the shareholders and that customers and employees were expendable and replaceable. Now rather than get into a long discussion when I am trying to get my clients work done I suggest you simply put the phrase, "How conservatives have outsourced American jobs", into your search engine. Then you can spend a lot of time telling how wrong those articles are. You said conservative policies have driven jobs off shore. Prove it. So far, All I've learned is that I'm homophobic, probably a racist , I don't like to pay taxes and if I type a few words into Google I can be exposed to a universe of similar assertions made by the liberal Rocket Surgeons that inhabit such bastions of intellectualism as the Daily Kos, Democratic Underground and the notably non-partisan republicandirtytricks.com. THIS is the vaunted liberal intelligence? Pretty soon I'm going to start thinking that liberals are nothing more than a bunch of mindless sheep only capable of parroting what they see on the TEE VEE and utterly incapable of independent thought or rational analysis of facts. Oh wait! I already knew that. |
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Post by terrylipford on Apr 8, 2011 7:53:12 GMT -8
It would appear that a majority of people are ok with things like reducing the EPA's ability to reduce green house gases and keep the water clean in this country? And President Obama is to blame for the inability of Congress to pass a budget ? Oh yeah, and lets not forget that some of these folks seem to have forgotten who got the USA involved with Afghanistan and Iraq !
IMHO people should try and become a lot more informed instead of relying upon the rabble rousing media that we seem to now cherish. People need to look beyond Republican, Tea Party and Democrat statements, and try to understand the impact of these bills. How many of you have made any attempt to try and understand the Republican 2012 budget proposals and the effect it would have on the USA ?
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Post by azson on Apr 8, 2011 8:10:36 GMT -8
I find very little in those "riders" that I object too. There are a couple, but then I could add many more. Business people get things done in the method that is most advantages to the business. It is not a liberal or Conservative issue, but a economic step that must be made to be competitive. Jobs going overseas is just the result of poor tax policy and onerous regulation here at home. They'll never understand win. 30 years of near uninterrupted job growth due to "conservative "policies. The Punaho Pothead gets in office and blows up our economy with a Keynesian SCUD missile and somehow it's the conservatives fault. Maybe we need to figure out how to steal elections like the liberals. Umm...you have. I guess "conservative" also applies to short-term memory [*cough cough* 2000 and 2004 *cough cough*] |
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Post by AlwaysAnAztec on Apr 8, 2011 8:15:34 GMT -8
It would appear that a majority of people are ok with things like reducing the EPA's ability to reduce green house gases and keep the water clean in this country? And President Obama is to blame for the inability of Congress to pass a budget ? Oh yeah, and lets not forget that some of these folks seem to have forgotten who got the USA involved with Afghanistan and Iraq ! IMHO people should try and become a lot more informed instead of relying upon the rabble rousing media that we seem to now cherish. People need to look beyond Republican, Tea Party and Democrat statements, and try to understand the impact of these bills. How many of you have made any attempt to try and understand the Republican 2012 budget proposals and the effect it would have on the USA ? Most of the "Liberals" on this board have. That is why I posted the list of riders. |
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Post by AztecWilliam on Apr 8, 2011 10:46:45 GMT -8
Either the U.S. budget is (A) in terrible shape and we are heading for disaster or, (B) everything is fine and there is no reason why we cannot go on the way we have been for some years. Everything I read and hear tells me that the A is true. In fact, I suspect that virtually everyone agrees that the vastly increased national debt and budget deficits must be addressed. The question is, how should be deal with those problems?
The GOP's proposed 10-year plan may or may not work, but it seems like a serious proposal to me. The Democrats, most of them, anyway, must surly realize that the "What, me worry?" fiscal philosophy is insane. For a number of reasons, however, their party simply is not proposing any serious attempts to get us on a path to a balanced budget and a much reduced national debt.
Real, serious, across the board reform is mandatory if we are not to end up like Greece, Ireland, and (now) Portugal. My hope is that most Americans now realize that we have to make changes, including changes that are not going to be without pain. The crisis can be put off only so long before our economy collapses. And, if and when it does, who would bail us out?
One more thing. Can we please grow up and stop this moronic "The conservatives shipped out jobs overseas" crap?! There is only one way that outsourcing manufacturing (and now some service) jobs to other countries could have been avoided . . . maybe . . . and that would have been to put huge tariffs on imported goods. If you think that would have been a good idea, please do some research into the effects of the Smooth-Hawley Tariff Act of 1930. It wasn't pretty. In any event, the loss of jobs to other countries was not something that was planned by any political party.
AzWm
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Post by Bob Forsythe on Apr 8, 2011 15:17:09 GMT -8
And racist too! You forgot racist! Nothing more pathetic than a liberal attempting to debate on facts. Sickening really. They're just not all that bright when it gets right down to it. Hey Buckwheat, you're the one who keeps referring to Maddow by a man's name. Homophobia runs rampant. Amazing given that most Congressmen who have been busted for gay behavior have been Republicans. =Bob |
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Post by Bob Forsythe on Apr 8, 2011 15:27:42 GMT -8
Idiots like that should be forced to live in another country to sample their version of Democracy.  This administration is the worst I have witnessed in my lifetime- by far. Ah, the old Love It or Leave It argument. Tell me something Steve; how many countries other than here and Mexico have you actually lived in - not visited or served in but actually lived in? Should we live in Canada, England, Sweden, Iceland, Switzerland, Austria or Germany. What would we discover about their versions of democracy that would make this country look so overwhelming better that we'd be crying to return here within a short period of time? Feel free to go through every country I listed above and tell me why each one of them is "inferior" in terms of democracy than what we have here. Of course you won't because you're far more interested in attempting to claim we're all a bunch of Communists instead of pulling your head out of your insulated ass and recognizing that this isn't the Cold War and that your arguments are 40 years old and were irrelevant even then. =Bob |
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Post by Bob Forsythe on Apr 8, 2011 15:37:59 GMT -8
Actually I saw the start while I was in business school in the 1970's. When my professors told me that as a business manager I should only pay attention to the needs of the shareholders and that customers and employees were expendable and replaceable. Now rather than get into a long discussion when I am trying to get my clients work done I suggest you simply put the phrase, "How conservatives have outsourced American jobs", into your search engine. Then you can spend a lot of time telling how wrong those articles are. You said conservative policies have driven jobs off shore. Prove it. I'm not all that much on economics, but offer you response to this: techpolicy.typepad.com/tpp/2004/03/tax_breaks_for_.htmlA paragraph by paragraph analysis would be appreciated although I doubt you'll do that. =Bob |
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Post by Bob Forsythe on Apr 8, 2011 15:40:18 GMT -8
Either the U.S. budget is (A) in terrible shape and we are heading for disaster or, (B) everything is fine and there is no reason why we cannot go on the way we have been for some years. AzWm A completely bogus argument. Nothing is ever an either/or proposition. Try again. =Bob |
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Post by aztecwin on Apr 8, 2011 17:10:36 GMT -8
They'll never understand win. 30 years of near uninterrupted job growth due to "conservative "policies. The Punaho Pothead gets in office and blows up our economy with a Keynesian SCUD missile and somehow it's the conservatives fault. Maybe we need to figure out how to steal elections like the liberals. Umm...you have. I guess "conservative" also applies to short-term memory [*cough cough* 2000 and 2004 *cough cough*] Bush had huge faults and contributed to the problem. Barry is like Bush on steriods. Let us fix the problem and let history place the blame. Cut this stupid spending! |
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Post by aztecwin on Apr 8, 2011 17:13:05 GMT -8
And racist too! You forgot racist! Nothing more pathetic than a liberal attempting to debate on facts. Sickening really. They're just not all that bright when it gets right down to it. Hey Buckwheat, you're the one who keeps referring to Maddow by a man's name. Homophobia runs rampant. Amazing given that most Congressmen who have been busted for gay behavior have been Republicans. =Bob Who is Maddow and what does his name have to do with anything?  |
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Post by inevitec on Apr 8, 2011 17:40:26 GMT -8
Either the U.S. budget is (A) in terrible shape and we are heading for disaster or, (B) everything is fine and there is no reason why we cannot go on the way we have been for some years. Everything I read and hear tells me that the A is true. In fact, I suspect that virtually everyone agrees that the vastly increased national debt and budget deficits must be addressed. The question is, how should be deal with those problems? The GOP's proposed 10-year plan may or may not work, but it seems like a serious proposal to me. The Democrats, most of them, anyway, must surly realize that the "What, me worry?" fiscal philosophy is insane. For a number of reasons, however, their party simply is not proposing any serious attempts to get us on a path to a balanced budget and a much reduced national debt. Real, serious, across the board reform is mandatory if we are not to end up like Greece, Ireland, and (now) Portugal. My hope is that most Americans now realize that we have to make changes, including changes that are not going to be without pain. The crisis can be put off only so long before our economy collapses. And, if and when it does, who would bail us out? One more thing. Can we please grow up and stop this moronic "The conservatives shipped out jobs overseas" crap?! There is only one way that outsourcing manufacturing (and now some service) jobs to other countries could have been avoided . . . maybe . . . and that would have been to put huge tariffs on imported goods. If you think that would have been a good idea, please do some research into the effects of the Smooth-Hawley Tariff Act of 1930. It wasn't pretty. In any event, the loss of jobs to other countries was not something that was planned by any political party. AzWm In 1999 I read article after article about how the then, projected budget surplus would hurt the economy. After 2001, Bush slashed tax rates and involved us in two expensive wars and a paranoid attempt to save us from terrorists. The fact of the matter is that the budget issues conservatives claim as dire are in fact not dire. All that needs to be done is roll back the tax rates to what they were in 1999, before Bush lowered them, and for the economy to recover. There is no evidence, none that austerity has helped any of the governments you listed. But Republicans want to blame Liberals for the stew they made themselves. They want to cut taxes to stimulate the economy when there is not one scintilla of evidence that it works. Tax cuts do not stimulate the economy. afan's name calling, davdesid's homophobia and your condescension will not change those facts. If you can show an example where a Republican tax cut stimulated anything, but a deficit, I would like to read it from you. That ten year proposal was a joke. The stipulation that the plan would involve in a 2.8% unemployment rate is the stupidest thing I ever read. And from there it descends into wonderland. Conservatives do not want to pay taxes. End of story. |
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Post by aztecwin on Apr 9, 2011 5:47:29 GMT -8
Either the U.S. budget is (A) in terrible shape and we are heading for disaster or, (B) everything is fine and there is no reason why we cannot go on the way we have been for some years. Everything I read and hear tells me that the A is true. In fact, I suspect that virtually everyone agrees that the vastly increased national debt and budget deficits must be addressed. The question is, how should be deal with those problems? The GOP's proposed 10-year plan may or may not work, but it seems like a serious proposal to me. The Democrats, most of them, anyway, must surly realize that the "What, me worry?" fiscal philosophy is insane. For a number of reasons, however, their party simply is not proposing any serious attempts to get us on a path to a balanced budget and a much reduced national debt. Real, serious, across the board reform is mandatory if we are not to end up like Greece, Ireland, and (now) Portugal. My hope is that most Americans now realize that we have to make changes, including changes that are not going to be without pain. The crisis can be put off only so long before our economy collapses. And, if and when it does, who would bail us out? One more thing. Can we please grow up and stop this moronic "The conservatives shipped out jobs overseas" crap?! There is only one way that outsourcing manufacturing (and now some service) jobs to other countries could have been avoided . . . maybe . . . and that would have been to put huge tariffs on imported goods. If you think that would have been a good idea, please do some research into the effects of the Smooth-Hawley Tariff Act of 1930. It wasn't pretty. In any event, the loss of jobs to other countries was not something that was planned by any political party. AzWm In 1999 I read article after article about how the then, projected budget surplus would hurt the economy. After 2001, Bush slashed tax rates and involved us in two expensive wars and a paranoid attempt to save us from terrorists. The fact of the matter is that the budget issues conservatives claim as dire are in fact not dire. All that needs to be done is roll back the tax rates to what they were in 1999, before Bush lowered them, and for the economy to recover. There is no evidence, none that austerity has helped any of the governments you listed. But Republicans want to blame Liberals for the stew they made themselves. They want to cut taxes to stimulate the economy when there is not one scintilla of evidence that it works. Tax cuts do not stimulate the economy. afan's name calling, davdesid's homophobia and your condescension will not change those facts. If you can show an example where a Republican tax cut stimulated anything, but a deficit, I would like to read it from you. That ten year proposal was a joke. The stipulation that the plan would involve in a 2.8% unemployment rate is the stupidest thing I ever read. And from there it descends into wonderland. Conservatives do not want to pay taxes. End of story. I want to ask AztecJoe about this. Should you be allowed to breed? Spending is our biggest problem. Live within your means no matter what the tax rate. Don't fund things that are not constitutionally legitimate. |
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Post by inevitec on Apr 9, 2011 14:05:19 GMT -8
In 1999 I read article after article about how the then, projected budget surplus would hurt the economy. After 2001, Bush slashed tax rates and involved us in two expensive wars and a paranoid attempt to save us from terrorists. The fact of the matter is that the budget issues conservatives claim as dire are in fact not dire. All that needs to be done is roll back the tax rates to what they were in 1999, before Bush lowered them, and for the economy to recover. There is no evidence, none that austerity has helped any of the governments you listed. But Republicans want to blame Liberals for the stew they made themselves. They want to cut taxes to stimulate the economy when there is not one scintilla of evidence that it works. Tax cuts do not stimulate the economy. afan's name calling, davdesid's homophobia and your condescension will not change those facts. If you can show an example where a Republican tax cut stimulated anything, but a deficit, I would like to read it from you. That ten year proposal was a joke. The stipulation that the plan would involve in a 2.8% unemployment rate is the stupidest thing I ever read. And from there it descends into wonderland. Conservatives do not want to pay taxes. End of story. I want to ask AztecJoe about this. Should you be allowed to breed? Spending is our biggest problem. Live within your means no matter what the tax rate. Don't fund things that are not constitutionally legitimate. Inadequate and inappropriately targeted taxation is our problem. The tax rate is wrong, but no matter, you persons do not want to pay taxes at all and you will never be satisfied until you pay nothing. And this is true even though we had one of the lowest tax rates in the industrialized world-in 1999. As to breeding, well, since I easily met California's definition of gifted when I was in school, perhaps you should ask yourself that question. Constitution? It is from a retired navy/ Supreme Court Justice I get that crack. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2011 14:32:46 GMT -8
And racist too! You forgot racist! Nothing more pathetic than a liberal attempting to debate on facts. Sickening really. They're just not all that bright when it gets right down to it. Hey Buckwheat, you're the one who keeps referring to Maddow by a man's name. Homophobia runs rampant. Amazing given that most Congressmen who have been busted for gay behavior have been Republicans. =Bob  Rachel  Rick |
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Post by uwaztec on Apr 9, 2011 15:06:25 GMT -8
Actually I saw the start while I was in business school in the 1970's. When my professors told me that as a business manager I should only pay attention to the needs of the shareholders and that customers and employees were expendable and replaceable. Now rather than get into a long discussion when I am trying to get my clients work done I suggest you simply put the phrase, "How conservatives have outsourced American jobs", into your search engine. Then you can spend a lot of time telling how wrong those articles are. You said conservative policies have driven jobs off shore. Prove it. So far, All I've learned is that I'm homophobic, probably a racist , I don't like to pay taxes and if I type a few words into Google I can be exposed to a universe of similar assertions made by the liberal Rocket Surgeons that inhabit such bastions of intellectualism as the Daily Kos, Democratic Underground and the notably non-partisan republicandirtytricks.com. THIS is the vaunted liberal intelligence? Pretty soon I'm going to start thinking that liberals are nothing more than a bunch of mindless sheep only capable of parroting what they see on the TEE VEE and utterly incapable of independent thought or rational analysis of facts. Oh wait! I already knew that. I used to get a bit riled about the rantings of AFAN. Now I just get comic relief.!!  |
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Post by aztecwin on Apr 9, 2011 16:23:48 GMT -8
I want to ask AztecJoe about this. Should you be allowed to breed? Spending is our biggest problem. Live within your means no matter what the tax rate. Don't fund things that are not constitutionally legitimate. Inadequate and inappropriately targeted taxation is our problem. The tax rate is wrong, but no matter, you persons do not want to pay taxes at all and you will never be satisfied until you pay nothing. And this is true even though we had one of the lowest tax rates in the industrialized world-in 1999. As to breeding, well, since I easily met California's definition of gifted when I was in school, perhaps you should ask yourself that question. Constitution? It is from a retired navy/ Supreme Court Justice I get that crack. Inadequate and inappropriately targeted taxation? The idea that targeted tax policy can be effectively used to do more than influence behavior is very iffy. Lowering a tax rate can create some kind of desired (or undesired) activity, but raising a rate in a category will only chase that activity to another State or offshore. You need a fair and/or flat tax to level the playing field. You need to find the "sweet spot" where revenue is optimum but business or individuals are not chased out of the State or Country. We all recognize the need to tax in order to fund the legitimate functions of government at all levels. Afan or any of the targets of your misguided rant will tell you that. Now just what were the standards and what metrics were used to show that you qualified as "gifted" in California? www.davidsongifted.org/db/state_policy_california_10005.aspxThis gives the California definition, but where are the standards or metrics. If you claim to be someone who qualifies it is a pretty sure bet that you are not. I did not make a crack about you, I merely asked AztecJoe if you would be one not allowed to breed. He talks about who should be aborted and who should breed. Just wanted his take. |
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Post by The Great Aztec Joe on Apr 9, 2011 19:32:32 GMT -8
Well, Win, I wanted to make the cut off at 120 years ago, but too many people told me that was too severe. They said you have to do it in stages and take ten percent at a time. So, to get rid of the bottom ten percent, we should sterilize anybody with an IQ below 90. After a generation we can raise that number to 93 and then 94 and then 95 and slowly work our way up to 120.
When we reach 120 as our minimum, the average IQ will probably be close to 140. What a beautiful world that will be. No more dummies acting as parasites on society.
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Post by inevitec on Apr 10, 2011 7:26:26 GMT -8
Inadequate and inappropriately targeted taxation is our problem. The tax rate is wrong, but no matter, you persons do not want to pay taxes at all and you will never be satisfied until you pay nothing. And this is true even though we had one of the lowest tax rates in the industrialized world-in 1999. As to breeding, well, since I easily met California's definition of gifted when I was in school, perhaps you should ask yourself that question. Constitution? It is from a retired navy/ Supreme Court Justice I get that crack. Inadequate and inappropriately targeted taxation? The idea that targeted tax policy can be effectively used to do more than influence behavior is very iffy. Lowering a tax rate can create some kind of desired (or undesired) activity, but raising a rate in a category will only chase that activity to another State or offshore. You need a fair and/or flat tax to level the playing field. You need to find the "sweet spot" where revenue is optimum but business or individuals are not chased out of the State or Country. We all recognize the need to tax in order to fund the legitimate functions of government at all levels. Afan or any of the targets of your misguided rant will tell you that. Now just what were the standards and what metrics were used to show that you qualified as "gifted" in California? www.davidsongifted.org/db/state_policy_california_10005.aspxThis gives the California definition, but where are the standards or metrics. If you claim to be someone who qualifies it is a pretty sure bet that you are not. I did not make a crack about you, I merely asked AztecJoe if you would be one not allowed to breed. He talks about who should be aborted and who should breed. Just wanted his take. I qualified as gifted when I was in school. That was the sixties. I have not looked since then as it is irrelevant. In any breeding qualification program that selects for intelligence, I will be in the running. The breeding crack was an insult directed at me. I understand what I read. If the Bush tax cuts had not occurred, had the wars not occurred, the deficit would have been near zero. Only the bailout (Bush's also as I remember)would have added to it according to the CBO. You conservatives created the deficit and now you want to blame liberals. Conservatives depend on the fact that people are fearful and stupid. That cadaverous Minnesotan's plan is a misleading manifesto, no different in its stupidity and manipulation than anything from Lenin. Here is the source. See the graph. See the pretty colors. ;D You conservatives stink with greed and you manipulate with fear. You depend on prejudice and fear to distract from what you really want. www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3036But, I have to tell you that I have no strongly held opinions. I know Win, that you would never have guessed. |
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Post by aztecwin on Apr 10, 2011 11:03:01 GMT -8
Inadequate and inappropriately targeted taxation? The idea that targeted tax policy can be effectively used to do more than influence behavior is very iffy. Lowering a tax rate can create some kind of desired (or undesired) activity, but raising a rate in a category will only chase that activity to another State or offshore. You need a fair and/or flat tax to level the playing field. You need to find the "sweet spot" where revenue is optimum but business or individuals are not chased out of the State or Country. We all recognize the need to tax in order to fund the legitimate functions of government at all levels. Afan or any of the targets of your misguided rant will tell you that. Now just what were the standards and what metrics were used to show that you qualified as "gifted" in California? www.davidsongifted.org/db/state_policy_california_10005.aspxThis gives the California definition, but where are the standards or metrics. If you claim to be someone who qualifies it is a pretty sure bet that you are not. I did not make a crack about you, I merely asked AztecJoe if you would be one not allowed to breed. He talks about who should be aborted and who should breed. Just wanted his take. I qualified as gifted when I was in school. That was the sixties. I have not looked since then as it is irrelevant. In any breeding qualification program that selects for intelligence, I will be in the running. The breeding crack was an insult directed at me. I understand what I read. If the Bush tax cuts had not occurred, had the wars not occurred, the deficit would have been near zero. Only the bailout (Bush's also as I remember)would have added to it according to the CBO. You conservatives created the deficit and now you want to blame liberals. Conservatives depend on the fact that people are fearful and stupid. That cadaverous Minnesotan's plan is a misleading manifesto, no different in its stupidity and manipulation than anything from Lenin. Here is the source. See the graph. See the pretty colors. ;D You conservatives stink with greed and you manipulate with fear. You depend on prejudice and fear to distract from what you really want. www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3036But, I have to tell you that I have no strongly held opinions. I know Win, that you would never have guessed. I looked at your link and read the information or opinions. I also did a google search on the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities. They seem to be pretty fair. What is not said however is what would be the current situation had spending been kept under control. Bush was nearly as bad as Obama. I think we all know that Bush did not do very well at all in reigning in spending. All of those cute little charts would be vastly different if we had any discipline at all on spending. You are dead wrong about what Conservatives are willing to fund beyond a scaled down and efficient DOD. We do not have a revenue problem, we have a spending problem and that should be clear to everyone. I was able to see a rather long interview with Ryan this morning and what he envisions and is willing to work on far exceeds what CBO is looking at. Now, about that breeding issue. Joe has laid out the parameters in measurable terms. You are just vague about your qualifications. Now I would accept your claim at face value were it not for the liberal leaning. That in and of itself is reason to question if you meet the standards. |
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