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Post by aztecjake on Jun 17, 2010 13:19:49 GMT -8
November 20, 2010. Circle it! The wife has finally given me permission to travel to this game, so I will be there.....Scratch that. I lied. Actually, she has come to the realization that I will not be home on Nov. 20th, period!!!!!! |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2010 14:18:18 GMT -8
November 20, 2010. Circle it! The wife has finally given me permission to travel to this game, so I will be there.....Scratch that. I lied. Actually, she has come to the realization that I will not be home on Nov. 20th, period!!!!!!  |
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Post by brokencurse on Jun 19, 2010 16:22:42 GMT -8
We are not going to beat Utah. The most important games we play this year are against NM State, Nicholls State, and Utah State (or whichever those three OOC teams are). If we don't beat those guys---if not slaughter them---either at home or on the road---then we're gonna have a pretty good idea of where this program is going under Hoke. I have read on here that the guy needs five years. That's hogwash. Other programs have made farther jumps faster than we did under either Craft or Long. We'll find out in short order how our guys stack up against vastly inferior size, strength, skill, and, presumably, coaching. I've been conditioned to believe that we'll lose one of these three games, but hopefully Hoke's words about discipline, strength, etc. are more than just words. It doesn't take long to demand---and get---results in the gym and in the brain. Nail. Head. But I'll add, we brought in 2 head coaches who had their teams playing in bowl games the year before coming here. New Mexico and Ball St. We're not talking USC and UCLA here. If these 2 can't get it done in short order, then we have gargantuan problems in the program that go far beyond coaching. We better pray they are succesful quick. |
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Post by rickdoerr on Jun 19, 2010 16:56:08 GMT -8
I'd just as soon do both but which would have the greater AQ value, beating Utah or Missouri?
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Post by Fred Noonan on Jun 19, 2010 17:10:55 GMT -8
Before any of us start drinking kool aid again we have to get past the failure exemplified by the conclusion of last years season. That did indeed set off alarms. Were it not for that I'd be thinking we are a shoo in for a 3-1 start, but ya just gotta recognize the reality of how the season ended. We will see if Hoke has changed the loser mentality on the Mesa or not. I chalk the last two losses up to a hold over loser mentality and two springs and two falls ought to be enough to eradicate it. If not, we could be in for a long season. The Fred Noonan School of Navigation. |
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Post by zurac315 on Jun 19, 2010 18:38:47 GMT -8
Nicholls State, New Mexico State and Utah State are the most important games. A loss to one of those three will deflate the team and the fans. Utah is the least important game of the season because they are gone.
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Post by zurac315 on Jun 19, 2010 18:49:12 GMT -8
JYP, I'll take your word for it that Rocky Long had a losing record as a coach. How many bowl games did he put New Mexico in? More, I think, than the Aztecs have been in in their history, maybe? How long did it take Hoke to turn Ball State around? Five years, maybe? Fire Hoke and who would you choose? An amazing coach (Coryell, etc.) can turn a program around in a year. However, there aren't many of those around.
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Post by sdsuphilip on Jun 19, 2010 20:24:39 GMT -8
How many bowl games did he put New Mexico in? More, I think, than the Aztecs have been in in their history, maybe? Yes, probably more. I think he lost every one of them too. I also recall him losing to some cruddy team like Utah State or something like that. JYP is right UNM went 65-69 under rocky (40-34), in his last 8 years though they went 53-46 (33-19). He did win 1 bowl game against UNR |
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Post by AztecTom on Jun 19, 2010 23:07:05 GMT -8
It would be great to drop kick those douche bags from Utah that copy our black uniforms!!!  |
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Post by k5james on Jun 20, 2010 6:47:40 GMT -8
By "turning a program around," I'm not saying we should go from two to ten wins in a year, but I am saying that we had better win six games this year given that we're playing three high school teams. My personal choices were Franchione, Skip Holtz, Rich Ellerson, and Bobby Hauck (not necessarily in that order, and I may be leaving out a couple). You criticize Hoke and Long for being "lifetime losers" and then you say you wanted; Franchione who was 33-36 in his first gig @ New Mexico so we would have been considered a "lifetime loser" to you. Skip Holtz who we had not shot at as he was dead set on a BCS job. Rich Ellerson who runs an offense that wouldn't be a fit for our school and is a "lifetime loser" so far as a D1 Coach @ Army. Bobby Hauck who's next D1 win will be his first and who's recruiting coordinator was arrested for stealing a gun from a bouncer at a strip club.  |
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Post by Azpire! on Jun 20, 2010 7:23:42 GMT -8
We are not going to beat Utah. The most important games we play this year are against NM State, Nicholls State, and Utah State (or whichever those three OOC teams are). If we don't beat those guys---if not slaughter them---either at home or on the road---then we're gonna have a pretty good idea of where this program is going under Hoke. I have read on here that the guy needs five years. That's hogwash. Other programs have made farther jumps faster than we did under either Craft or Long. We'll find out in short order how our guys stack up against vastly inferior size, strength, skill, and, presumably, coaching. I've been conditioned to believe that we'll lose one of these three games, but hopefully Hoke's words about discipline, strength, etc. are more than just words. It doesn't take long to demand---and get---results in the gym and in the brain. Anything is possible. That's why they play the games. Losing is as infectious as winning. However, it takes more time to purge a loser's mentality from any organization. Hoke & Co. will need 1 more year to purge the prevailing weak attitude from the team through attrition. That, or those remaining will need to have bought into Hoke's philosophy. We've already seen the weak minded players leave one year ago after spring ball commenced. It's a process. A decade of losing in most cases does not turn around in 1-2 years, though I expect this statement will be dissected to no end here. The conditioning is happening and will be even more improved in 2011. We didn't see the rash of blown knees continue last season, but that had everything to do with Hoke getting the team off of that bad carpet of a synthetic practice field. A Common sense move. Have some hope. If the psyche significantly improves this season, who knows what upsets can occur. GO AZTECS! |
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Post by monty on Jun 20, 2010 7:31:59 GMT -8
By "turning a program around," I'm not saying we should go from two to ten wins in a year, but I am saying that we had better win six games this year given that we're playing three high school teams. My personal choices were Franchione, Skip Holtz, Rich Ellerson, and Bobby Hauck (not necessarily in that order, and I may be leaving out a couple). You criticize Hoke and Long for being "lifetime losers" and then you say you wanted; Franchione who was 33-36 in his first gig @ New Mexico so we would have been considered a "lifetime loser" to you. Skip Holtz who we had not shot at as he was dead set on a BCS job. Rich Ellerson who runs an offense that wouldn't be a fit for our school and is a "lifetime loser" so far as a D1 Coach @ Army. Bobby Hauck who's next D1 win will be his first and who's recruiting coordinator was arrested for stealing a gun from a bouncer at a strip club. And if any of those guys were here then JYP would be using the same arguments you listed against them, and he would have come up with more. |
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Post by retiredaztec on Jun 20, 2010 7:50:51 GMT -8
By "turning a program around," You criticize Hoke and Long for being "lifetime losers" and then you say you wanted; Franchione who was 33-36 in his first gig @ New Mexico so we would have been considered a "lifetime loser" to you. Ok, here we go again, I just can't let go, (my problem), DFran took over a moribound program at UNM and turned the team around, winning the WAC mountain championship his final year. More importantly, he laid the foundation for R. Long to have marginal success in subsequent years. He did the same thing at TCU and 'Bama. We can only speculate as to what he would have accomplished at State but I DO speculate that Hoke may well have backed into the success his final year at Ball State, particularly when you look at how he pretty much left the program in shambles. We can only ponder and speculate, but we will be able to know what direction this program is taking in a few months. On the one hand, not having any expections, I can avoid disappointment. But on the other hand, one more losing season and I just have to wonder how much time this program really has. |
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Post by k5james on Jun 20, 2010 8:11:38 GMT -8
Wow! Where to begin? Ok, here we go again, I just can't let go, (my problem), DFran took over a moribound program at UNM and turned the team around, winning the WAC mountain championship his final year. More importantly, he laid the foundation for R. Long to have marginal success in subsequent years. He did the same thing at TCU and 'Bama. Laid the foundation for R. Long? It was such a great foundation Long went 3-9 and 4-7 in his first two years. 3 years @ TCU and 2 years @ 'Bama aren't exactly foundation laying timeframes, but ok I'll buy TCU. As for 'Bama, Mike Shula went 4-9 and 6-6 after he left and after five years of laying the foundation @ A&M, Mike Sherman went 4-8 and 6-7 after he left. How exactly do you "speculate" that Hoke "backed into" success @ Ball State? Also, if you're going to criticize Hoke for what happened after he left BSU how do you reconcile that with what happened after Franchione left New Mexico, 'Bama and A&M? We heard this after Tollner was hire, after Craft was hired and after Long was hired. I suspect the program will be fine no matter what happens with Hoke. What exactly is your personal problem with Hoke anyway? |
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Post by laaztec on Jun 20, 2010 8:20:52 GMT -8
The Most important game? All of them.
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Post by retiredaztec on Jun 20, 2010 10:26:49 GMT -8
What exactly is your personal problem with Hoke anyway?You points are well taken. Arguably I painted DFran in a better light than I should have. But as far as I'm concerned he still would have been the best choice for HC. And yes, you also hit the nail, with Hoke it's personal. Don't care for the man and if he's a success at State, great for the program, great for the players and great for the community. Then he can move on. In the last ten years this program went from JC HC/D1OC to D1OC to HC with limited success. Using his business model from Ball State it will be at least three more years before this program shows improvement, if in fact it does. Yes, I'd like to think I'm wrong but I may well not be. And in spite of your assertion this program isn't on the clock, for me, (and for many others), it may well be. At age 58, I've got better things to do than to continue to support my Alma Mater's football ineptitude. (And this is the demographic the program counts on for support with the BIG BUCKS). But again the coming season will shed more light. Another losing season, who's on board? A six win season and a possible bowl bid? I can still ask the same question in America's Finest City because it is, well you know, San Diego.
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Post by monty on Jun 20, 2010 11:10:52 GMT -8
just reading this exchange, I still don't understand why you have a personal problem with the guy. I can't imagine any coach winning with the team we had last year. He seems to have done what was most needed - change the culture of losing and make them accountable.
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Post by k5james on Jun 20, 2010 11:13:17 GMT -8
You points are well taken. Arguably I painted DFran in a better light than I should have. But as far as I'm concerned he still would have been the best choice for HC. And yes, you also hit the nail, with Hoke it's personal. Don't care for the man and if he's a success at State, great for the program, great for the players and great for the community. Then he can move on. You failed to answer the question. What's your beef with the guy? What is his "business model" from Ball State? He took an AWFUL Ball State program from nothing to being ranked in the Top 15 and finished with a 12-1 record his last season. The guy was a finalist for the national coach of the year award. If that's limited success to you, you have unrealistic expectations of the kind of coach we can hire here at this point in our program's history. So because your guy wasn't hired, you're not on board either way? |
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Post by steveaztec on Jun 20, 2010 11:14:56 GMT -8
What exactly is your personal problem with Hoke anyway?You points are well taken. Arguably I painted DFran in a better light than I should have. But as far as I'm concerned he still would have been the best choice for HC. And yes, you also hit the nail, with Hoke it's personal. Don't care for the man and if he's a success at State, great for the program, great for the players and great for the community. Then he can move on. In the last ten years this program went from JC HC/D1OC to D1OC to HC with limited success. Using his business model from Ball State it will be at least three more years before this program shows improvement, if in fact it does. Yes, I'd like to think I'm wrong but I may well not be. And in spite of your assertion this program isn't on the clock, for me, (and for many others), it may well be. At age 58, I've got better things to do than to continue to support my Alma Mater's football ineptitude. (And this is the demographic the program counts on for support with the BIG BUCKS). But again the coming season will shed more light. Another losing season, who's on board? A six win season and a possible bowl bid? I can still ask the same question in America's Finest City because it is, well you know, San Diego. As a huge Brady Hoke fan, you just hit it on the head as to why I called his hire a "lateral move". It took Brady 7 years to turn around Ball State. Not many on this board will be real happy if it takes him 3 to turn this around. I will say this. I think Brady Hoke will get us in a bowl game this year. I think Brady Hoke and staff will get us 8 wins in Lindleys senior year. At that point in time (after Bradys fourth year), I think we will have to gear up for another 'biggest hire ever". |
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Post by steveaztec on Jun 20, 2010 11:15:44 GMT -8
just reading this exchange, I still don't understand why you have a personal problem with the guy. I can't imagine any coach winning with the team we had last year. He seems to have done what was most needed - change the culture of losing and make them accountable. Monty, Brady Hoke and staff should have won 6 games last year. |
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