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Post by aztec70 on Feb 19, 2011 12:46:07 GMT -8
I found that a W-2's base pay in 1976 was $1169.40. Retiring with 22 years of service would give a 55% pension. That would be $642.95 per month. To buy annuity that paid that amount, with no increase, for fifty years at 3% compounded would cost $199,687.87. One can quibble about term and interest rate. I welcome Mr Unfunded Pension Liability to post his own numbers
Mr. Unfounded Pension Liability's pension was not fixed. It had COLAs built so it increased over the forty some years he has been retired. How much only he knows. It seems to be a state secret. An annuity that, adjusted for inflation, would cost far more than a fixed annuity. $500,000.00 might be a good guess.
I post this so that all will know how foolish it is for Mr. Unfunded Pension Liability to say that he would have been better off with a 401(k) rather than his military pension. An employee can only put 15% of their pay into 401(k). It would be impossible to have funded a 401(k) that paid out what his pension was and is. Perhaps I should have named him Mr. Ungrateful Wretch.
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Post by aztecwin on Feb 19, 2011 13:20:36 GMT -8
I found that a W-2's base pay in 1976 was $1169.40. Retiring with 22 years of service would give a 55% pension. That would be $642.95 per month. To buy annuity that paid that amount, with no increase, for fifty years at 3% compounded would cost $199,687.87. One can quibble about term and interest rate. I welcome Mr Unfunded Pension Liability to post his own numbers Mr. Unfounded Pension Liability's pension was not fixed. It had COLAs built so it increased over the forty some years he has been retired. How much only he knows. It seems to be a state secret. An annuity that, adjusted for inflation, would cost far more than a fixed annuity. $500,000.00 might be a good guess. I post this so that all will know how foolish it is for Mr. Unfunded Pension Liability to say that he would have been better off with a 401(k) rather than his military pension. An employee can only put 15% of their pay into 401(k). It would be impossible to have funded a 401(k) that paid out what his pension was and is. Perhaps I should have named him Mr. Ungrateful Wretch. You are not even close on the numbers. My retired pay has more than tripled, but my purchasing power has decreased more than 30%. You sound like those ungrateful Frenchmen. I am glad I served in spite of those like you who do not appreciate it. Mr. Ungrateful Wretch? It does have a rather catchy ring to it. I could grow to like it. |
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Post by aztec70 on Feb 19, 2011 13:50:33 GMT -8
I found that a W-2's base pay in 1976 was $1169.40. Retiring with 22 years of service would give a 55% pension. That would be $642.95 per month. To buy annuity that paid that amount, with no increase, for fifty years at 3% compounded would cost $199,687.87. One can quibble about term and interest rate. I welcome Mr Unfunded Pension Liability to post his own numbers Mr. Unfounded Pension Liability's pension was not fixed. It had COLAs built so it increased over the forty some years he has been retired. How much only he knows. It seems to be a state secret. An annuity that, adjusted for inflation, would cost far more than a fixed annuity. $500,000.00 might be a good guess. I post this so that all will know how foolish it is for Mr. Unfunded Pension Liability to say that he would have been better off with a 401(k) rather than his military pension. An employee can only put 15% of their pay into 401(k). It would be impossible to have funded a 401(k) that paid out what his pension was and is. Perhaps I should have named him Mr. Ungrateful Wretch. You are not even close on the numbers. My retired pay has more than tripled, but my purchasing power has decreased more than 30%. You sound like those ungrateful Frenchmen. I am glad I served in spite of those like you who do not appreciate it. Mr. Ungrateful Wretch? It does have a rather catchy ring to it. I could grow to like it. I am so happy you spent 45 years in government service. Otherwise you might to struggling to survive on Social Security and a meager private pension. There would no pitchers of Margaritas and golf for you. As to appreciating your service. The man who's service I most admire is my Father's. It is probably unfair, but I always use his service as a measure. Like you he enlisted in the Navy. He retired as a Captain, though. He served for 36 years. He told me that those that retired early either did not like the Service or the Service did not like them. You can tell us which it was for you. He never talked about his service or what he did or what happened to him in WW2. He only made a few jokes about it. I did know he had battle stars on his campaign ribbons. I later learned that much happened to him from those that knew him and from reading his personnel file, which I keep as a family heirloom. Another comment he make was those that did the least in the Service talked the most about it. You certainly talk a lot about yours. You could be an exception, though. By the way, please correct my numbers if they are so far off. |
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Post by aztec70 on Feb 19, 2011 14:43:54 GMT -8
www.dfas.mil/militarypay/militarypaytables/militarypaypriorrates/1976.pdfMy starting number can't be wrong as it is public information. If Mr. UPL retired a year before or after my numbers are still very close. If he wants to quibble about term or rate of return I welcome him to do so. He won't. It is not his way. Throw $#!+ against the wall and hope something sticks is all he is capable of. To actually carry on a debate and defend a position is beyond him. As he publicly acknowledges he is only here to be an annoyance. 
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Post by inocuace on Feb 19, 2011 14:47:29 GMT -8
www.dfas.mil/militarypay/militarypaytables/militarypaypriorrates/1976.pdfMy starting number can't be wrong as it is public information. If Mr. UPL retired a year before or after my numbers are still very close. If he wants to quibble about term or rate of return I welcome him to do so. He won't. It is not his way. Throw $#!+ against the wall and hope something sticks is all he is capable of. To actually carry on a debate and defend a position is beyond him. As he publicly acknowledges he is only here to be an annoyance. Don't let him kid you. That pension of his is sweet. And the actuarial value is high. My father was a retired fish. To get the payout he received by saving was pretty near impossible. ( I did his financial work and I know what he received in pension ) My guess is that he would have had to save several hundred dollars per month for his entire career from 1942 to 1972. Uh, a good salary in 1972 was about 10,000.00. I guarantee you he did not make enough a year total for most of the time he spent communing with the deep to save what he would have had to save. But then I don't begrudge him. He almost never referred to the daily bombing attacks in the Pacific forward areas he inhabited. |
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Post by 78aztec82 on Feb 20, 2011 5:15:21 GMT -8
I found that a W-2's base pay in 1976 was $1169.40. Retiring with 22 years of service would give a 55% pension. That would be $642.95 per month. To buy annuity that paid that amount, with no increase, for fifty years at 3% compounded would cost $199,687.87. One can quibble about term and interest rate. I welcome Mr Unfunded Pension Liability to post his own numbers Mr. Unfounded Pension Liability's pension was not fixed. It had COLAs built so it increased over the forty some years he has been retired. How much only he knows. It seems to be a state secret. An annuity that, adjusted for inflation, would cost far more than a fixed annuity. $500,000.00 might be a good guess. I post this so that all will know how foolish it is for Mr. Unfunded Pension Liability to say that he would have been better off with a 401(k) rather than his military pension. An employee can only put 15% of their pay into 401(k). It would be impossible to have funded a 401(k) that paid out what his pension was and is. Perhaps I should have named him Mr. Ungrateful Wretch. I don't come here much but do I read it correctly that military retirees are ungrateful wretches in your opinion? |
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Post by 78aztec82 on Feb 20, 2011 5:17:50 GMT -8
You are not even close on the numbers. My retired pay has more than tripled, but my purchasing power has decreased more than 30%. You sound like those ungrateful Frenchmen. I am glad I served in spite of those like you who do not appreciate it. Mr. Ungrateful Wretch? It does have a rather catchy ring to it. I could grow to like it. I am so happy you spent 45 years in government service. Otherwise you might to struggling to survive on Social Security and a meager private pension. There would no pitchers of Margaritas and golf for you. As to appreciating your service. The man who's service I most admire is my Father's. It is probably unfair, but I always use his service as a measure. Like you he enlisted in the Navy. He retired as a Captain, though. He served for 36 years. He told me that those that retired early either did not like the Service or the Service did not like them. You can tell us which it was for you. He never talked about his service or what he did or what happened to him in WW2. He only made a few jokes about it. I did know he had battle stars on his campaign ribbons. I later learned that much happened to him from those that knew him and from reading his personnel file, which I keep as a family heirloom. Another comment he make was those that did the least in the Service talked the most about it. You certainly talk a lot about yours. You could be an exception, though. By the way, please correct my numbers if they are so far off. I retired at 25 due to disability reasons. I don't think I fit your model. |
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Post by aztecwin on Feb 20, 2011 7:41:59 GMT -8
You are not even close on the numbers. My retired pay has more than tripled, but my purchasing power has decreased more than 30%. You sound like those ungrateful Frenchmen. I am glad I served in spite of those like you who do not appreciate it. Mr. Ungrateful Wretch? It does have a rather catchy ring to it. I could grow to like it. I am so happy you spent 45 years in government service. Otherwise you might to struggling to survive on Social Security and a meager private pension. There would no pitchers of Margaritas and golf for you. As to appreciating your service. The man who's service I most admire is my Father's. It is probably unfair, but I always use his service as a measure. Like you he enlisted in the Navy. He retired as a Captain, though. He served for 36 years. He told me that those that retired early either did not like the Service or the Service did not like them. You can tell us which it was for you. He never talked about his service or what he did or what happened to him in WW2. He only made a few jokes about it. I did know he had battle stars on his campaign ribbons. I later learned that much happened to him from those that knew him and from reading his personnel file, which I keep as a family heirloom. Another comment he make was those that did the least in the Service talked the most about it. You certainly talk a lot about yours. You could be an exception, though. By the way, please correct my numbers if they are so far off. Troll on! If you can access public records, figure it out for yourself. Since you show you can't even get it close, how close can you come on doing someone's tax return when you have all the starting info? Not very, I would suspect. Tell me this, what will you do when Turbo Tax and a National Flat Tax put you out of business? Mr. UPL or is it Mr. Ungrateful Wretch? Here is laughing at you. Little early for a Margarita, but when the time comes I will have a pitcher and thank you for funding my life of leisure. |
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Post by davdesid on Feb 20, 2011 14:03:09 GMT -8
>>>The man who's service I most admire is my Father's. It is probably unfair, but I always use his service as a measure. Like you he enlisted in the Navy. He retired as a Captain, though. He served for 36 years. He told me that those that retired early either did not like the Service or the Service did not like them.<<<
My Daddy was a Captain too, but he was just one of those pukey Army Captains. He left the service early, but had no say in the matter.
Before he left, he contributed everything he had to his retirement. Just like "sailor-boy"-"Petty Officer" Mansoor.
And just like the petty officer, he had the good grace to not stick around to collect any of it.
Run the numbers on that, Mister Tax-Man.
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Post by aztec70 on Feb 20, 2011 17:22:58 GMT -8
I found that a W-2's base pay in 1976 was $1169.40. Retiring with 22 years of service would give a 55% pension. That would be $642.95 per month. To buy annuity that paid that amount, with no increase, for fifty years at 3% compounded would cost $199,687.87. One can quibble about term and interest rate. I welcome Mr Unfunded Pension Liability to post his own numbers Mr. Unfounded Pension Liability's pension was not fixed. It had COLAs built so it increased over the forty some years he has been retired. How much only he knows. It seems to be a state secret. An annuity that, adjusted for inflation, would cost far more than a fixed annuity. $500,000.00 might be a good guess. I post this so that all will know how foolish it is for Mr. Unfunded Pension Liability to say that he would have been better off with a 401(k) rather than his military pension. An employee can only put 15% of their pay into 401(k). It would be impossible to have funded a 401(k) that paid out what his pension was and is. Perhaps I should have named him Mr. Ungrateful Wretch. I don't come here much but do I read it correctly that military retirees are ungrateful wretches in your opinion? No. I refer only to aztecwin. Who is complaining that his pension has not kept up with inflation, and who maintains that he could have a better pension if he would have had a 401(k). I am not and would not generalize to all military retiress. Please do not think otherwise. |
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Post by aztec70 on Feb 20, 2011 17:33:55 GMT -8
I am so happy you spent 45 years in government service. Otherwise you might to struggling to survive on Social Security and a meager private pension. There would no pitchers of Margaritas and golf for you. As to appreciating your service. The man who's service I most admire is my Father's. It is probably unfair, but I always use his service as a measure. Like you he enlisted in the Navy. He retired as a Captain, though. He served for 36 years. He told me that those that retired early either did not like the Service or the Service did not like them. You can tell us which it was for you. He never talked about his service or what he did or what happened to him in WW2. He only made a few jokes about it. I did know he had battle stars on his campaign ribbons. I later learned that much happened to him from those that knew him and from reading his personnel file, which I keep as a family heirloom. Another comment he make was those that did the least in the Service talked the most about it. You certainly talk a lot about yours. You could be an exception, though. By the way, please correct my numbers if they are so far off. Troll on! If you can access public records, figure it out for yourself. Since you show you can't even get it close, how close can you come on doing someone's tax return when you have all the starting info? Not very, I would suspect. Tell me this, what will you do when Turbo Tax and a National Flat Tax put you out of business? Mr. UPL or is it Mr. Ungrateful Wretch? Here is laughing at you. Little early for a Margarita, but when the time comes I will have a pitcher and thank you for funding my life of leisure. As I have observed you are good at running off at the mouth, but when asked to defend your position with numbers you are mute. |
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Post by aztecwin on Feb 20, 2011 17:35:48 GMT -8
I don't come here much but do I read it correctly that military retirees are ungrateful wretches in your opinion? No. I refer only to aztecwin. Who is complaining that his pension has not kept up with inflation, and who maintains that he could have a better pension if he would have had a 401(k). I am not and would not generalize to all military retiress. Please do not think otherwise. Yeah, I fess up. I explained how changing from "re-computation" to CPI minus some leads to decreasing buying power. Mr Ungrateful Wretch |
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Post by aztec70 on Feb 20, 2011 17:49:04 GMT -8
No. I refer only to aztecwin. Who is complaining that his pension has not kept up with inflation, and who maintains that he could have a better pension if he would have had a 401(k). I am not and would not generalize to all military retiress. Please do not think otherwise. Yeah, I fess up. I explained how changing from "re-computation" to CPI minus some leads to decreasing buying power. Mr Ungrateful Wretch I must have missed the post where you spoke of re-computation. Could you be so kind as to re-post it? By the way, did your recruiter promise you a pension that kept up with inflation, or just a pension? |
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Post by aztec70 on Feb 20, 2011 17:52:22 GMT -8
>>>The man who's service I most admire is my Father's. It is probably unfair, but I always use his service as a measure. Like you he enlisted in the Navy. He retired as a Captain, though. He served for 36 years. He told me that those that retired early either did not like the Service or the Service did not like them.<<< My Daddy was a Captain too, but he was just one of those pukey Army Captains. He left the service early, but had no say in the matter. Before he left, he contributed everything he had to his retirement. Just like "sailor-boy"-"Petty Officer" Mansoor. And just like the petty officer, he had the good grace to not stick around to collect any of it. Run the numbers on that, Mister Tax-Man. What on earth are you talking about? |
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Post by aztecwin on Feb 20, 2011 20:12:34 GMT -8
Yeah, I fess up. I explained how changing from "re-computation" to CPI minus some leads to decreasing buying power. Mr Ungrateful Wretch I must have missed the post where you spoke of re-computation. Could you be so kind as to re-post it? By the way, did your recruiter promise you a pension that kept up with inflation, or just a pension? Re-computation was the law at that time. Just one of the many things that our government has broken faith with it's servicemen. Oh! Well! It is all worth it as long as you keep paying your taxes and Costco does not stop selling Patron. I did figure out how to fill the void in the decreasing purchasing power of my pension. As long as you keep doing your part, Exxon/Mobil does just fine in increasing its dividend and splitting it's shares. |
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Post by aztec70 on Feb 20, 2011 20:21:54 GMT -8
I must have missed the post where you spoke of re-computation. Could you be so kind as to re-post it? By the way, did your recruiter promise you a pension that kept up with inflation, or just a pension? Re-computation was the law at that time. Just one of the many things that our government has broken faith with it's servicemen. Oh! Well! It is all worth it as long as you keep paying your taxes and Costco does not stop selling Patron. I did figure out how to fill the void in the decreasing purchasing power of my pension. As long as you keep doing your part, Exxon/Mobil does just fine in increasing its dividend and splitting it's shares. Once again you fail to defend your point. I expect no less from you. You are weak. |
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Post by aztecwin on Feb 20, 2011 20:28:35 GMT -8
Re-computation was the law at that time. Just one of the many things that our government has broken faith with it's servicemen. Oh! Well! It is all worth it as long as you keep paying your taxes and Costco does not stop selling Patron. I did figure out how to fill the void in the decreasing purchasing power of my pension. As long as you keep doing your part, Exxon/Mobil does just fine in increasing its dividend and splitting it's shares. Once again you fail to defend your point. I expect no less from you. You are weak. What point is that? It is getting late. I want to just brush my teeth and get some shuteye before my tee time. Would it help if I pointed you to a place you can try to understand the Present Value and Future Value way of looking at things? I guess I won't bother since you have not shown the ability to understand even the most basic of ideas. Mr UPL Keep those quarterly payments coming. |
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Post by aztec70 on Feb 22, 2011 17:13:36 GMT -8
Once again you fail to defend your point. I expect no less from you. You are weak. What point is that? It is getting late. I want to just brush my teeth and get some shuteye before my tee time. Would it help if I pointed you to a place you can try to understand the Present Value and Future Value way of looking at things? I guess I won't bother since you have not shown the ability to understand even the most basic of ideas. Mr UPL Keep those quarterly payments coming. You are being so silly. How do you think I came up with the numbers in my original post?  Anyone with a lick of sense would know that I used present value tables in my original post. That you do not understand that shows how weak your posts are. |
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Post by aztecwin on Feb 22, 2011 17:33:17 GMT -8
What point is that? It is getting late. I want to just brush my teeth and get some shuteye before my tee time. Would it help if I pointed you to a place you can try to understand the Present Value and Future Value way of looking at things? I guess I won't bother since you have not shown the ability to understand even the most basic of ideas. Mr UPL Keep those quarterly payments coming. You are being so silly. How do you think I came up with the numbers in my original post? Anyone with a lick of sense would know that I used present value tables in my original post. That you do not understand that shows how weak your posts are. Show me your work. I don't think you can. If you can, you have also shown just how easy it would be to fund that kind of thing out of current revenue. That is what San Diego County, California and Wisconsin should have been doing before letting those unions take them to the cleaners. I guess you could say that I am taking you to the cleaners and I want to thank you for keeping those quarterly payments up so that the government can skim off the lions share before sending me the rest. Nice round of golf today and looking forward to watching TV this evening over a "pitcher" and some snacks. |
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Post by aztec70 on Feb 23, 2011 12:56:45 GMT -8
You are being so silly. How do you think I came up with the numbers in my original post? Anyone with a lick of sense would know that I used present value tables in my original post. That you do not understand that shows how weak your posts are. Show me your work. I don't think you can. If you can, you have also shown just how easy it would be to fund that kind of thing out of current revenue. That is what San Diego County, California and Wisconsin should have been doing before letting those unions take them to the cleaners. I guess you could say that I am taking you to the cleaners and I want to thank you for keeping those quarterly payments up so that the government can skim off the lions share before sending me the rest. Nice round of golf today and looking forward to watching TV this evening over a "pitcher" and some snacks. The numbers are in my original post. Anyone can go to the many financial calculators available on the internet and verify, even you. |
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