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Post by aztecryan on Oct 20, 2023 11:12:07 GMT -8
About as shocking as the obsession with getting rid of Grisham for peanuts without any real idea of what/who will/is an actual improvement at the position. I'm obsessed with getting Grisham out of the starting lineup, and into a backup role. At the same time, I realize we may be stuck with him batting number nine again next season. Ugh. We know. That doesn't answer the question. |
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Post by johneaztec on Oct 20, 2023 11:27:48 GMT -8
I'm obsessed with getting Grisham out of the starting lineup, and into a backup role. At the same time, I realize we may be stuck with him batting number nine again next season. Ugh. We know. That doesn't answer the question. I understand that's the question. I didn't answer it, because I don't have the answers quite yet, just like everybody else. I want it to happen, because it will make us a better team. |
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Post by aztecryan on Oct 20, 2023 12:06:59 GMT -8
We know. That doesn't answer the question. I understand that's the question. I didn't answer it, because I don't have the answers quite yet, just like everybody else. I want it to happen, because it will make us a better team. That's not a guarantee. Far from it, really. |
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Post by sdsuball on Oct 20, 2023 12:09:49 GMT -8
About as shocking as the obsession with getting rid of Grisham for peanuts without any real idea of what/who will/is an actual improvement at the position. The answer may be starting him ninth and pinch hitting for him in his second or third at-bat, especially at home because you get the extra half inning of defense. Using him as a defensive replacement, especially for away games. Maximizing his defense, minimizing his offense. |
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Post by johneaztec on Oct 20, 2023 12:14:51 GMT -8
About as shocking as the obsession with getting rid of Grisham for peanuts without any real idea of what/who will/is an actual improvement at the position. The answer may be starting him ninth and pinch hitting for him in his second or third at-bat, especially at home because you get the extra half inning of defense. Using him as a defensive replacement, especially for away games. Maximizing his defense, minimizing his offense. Yes, if we're stuck with his bat next year, minimize it creatively the best you can. |
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Post by aztecryan on Oct 20, 2023 12:41:07 GMT -8
About as shocking as the obsession with getting rid of Grisham for peanuts without any real idea of what/who will/is an actual improvement at the position. The answer may be starting him ninth and pinch hitting for him in his second or third at-bat, especially at home because you get the extra half inning of defense. Using him as a defensive replacement, especially for away games. Maximizing his defense, minimizing his offense. Just don't see it. Makes Azocar extremely redundant, hurts the depth. |
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Post by aztecryan on Oct 20, 2023 12:48:32 GMT -8
People want to pay Cody Bellinger an absurd amount of money.
Bellinger xWOBA in 2023: .331
Grisham's xWOBA in 2023; .326
Peak silliness.
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Post by johneaztec on Oct 20, 2023 12:50:16 GMT -8
The answer may be starting him ninth and pinch hitting for him in his second or third at-bat, especially at home because you get the extra half inning of defense. Using him as a defensive replacement, especially for away games. Maximizing his defense, minimizing his offense. Just don't see it. Makes Azocar extremely redundant, hurts the depth. If you can get a guy that can hit better than Grisham (shouldn't be difficult) but is just an average center fielder, then it doesn't make Azocar redundant |
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Post by aztecryan on Oct 20, 2023 12:54:15 GMT -8
Just don't see it. Makes Azocar extremely redundant, hurts the depth. If you can get a guy that can hit better than Grisham (shouldn't be difficult) but is just an average center fielder, then it doesn't make Azocar redundant And it's so easy you haven't been able to name....anyone. And you're in the same position then. You're trading offense for defense and upgrading nothing. |
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Post by aztecryan on Oct 20, 2023 13:10:36 GMT -8
I'm wondering if anyone has actually bothered to look at lineups around baseball and look at the bottom of the order to gain some useful context as to how this isn't just boot Grisham for an easy upgrade.
Brenton Ooyle - 43 wRC+
Joey Weimer - 75 wRC+
Leody Taveras - 98 wRC+
Myles Straw - 69 wRC+
Just four examples, all center fielders, with one thing in common: Plus center fielders defensively at a position that demands it. Two of those guys were/are on playoff teams.
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Post by aardvark on Oct 20, 2023 13:28:31 GMT -8
About as shocking as the obsession with getting rid of Grisham for peanuts without any real idea of what/who will/is an actual improvement at the position. I'm not concerned about getting rid of Grisham. Yet. I expect Grisham to be here in 2024. But it is nice to see prospects developing, and possibly having a role to play on this franchise in 2025. Unless, of course, Marsee gets traded as well. |
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Post by johneaztec on Oct 20, 2023 13:54:18 GMT -8
About as shocking as the obsession with getting rid of Grisham for peanuts without any real idea of what/who will/is an actual improvement at the position. I'm not concerned about getting rid of Grisham. Yet. I expect Grisham to be here in 2024. But it is nice to see prospects developing, and possibly having a role to play on this franchise in 2025. Unless, of course, Marsee gets traded as well. I'm not concerned about getting rid of Grisham, either. If possible, I would like to see him at bat the least amount of opportunities as possible. I would like to see him used as a spot starter, or if he starts, with the least amount of at bats as possible. |
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Post by johneaztec on Oct 20, 2023 13:55:42 GMT -8
I'm wondering if anyone has actually bothered to look at lineups around baseball and look at the bottom of the order to gain some useful context as to how this isn't just boot Grisham for an easy upgrade. Brenton Ooyle - 43 wRC+ Joey Weimer - 75 wRC+ Leody Taveras - 98 wRC+ Myles Straw - 69 wRC+ Just four examples, all center fielders, with one thing in common: Plus center fielders defensively at a position that demands it. Two of those guys were/are on playoff teams. Ryan, it's called a wish list. I'm hoping they can find someone. If they can find someone with simply one down year for himself, such as last year, then that may work. If you're only looking at stats from last year, then that's not fair. I get it that it may be difficult to find someone, but I hope they do. If they can't, then limit his at bats as creatively as possible. |
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Post by aztecryan on Oct 20, 2023 14:23:49 GMT -8
I'm wondering if anyone has actually bothered to look at lineups around baseball and look at the bottom of the order to gain some useful context as to how this isn't just boot Grisham for an easy upgrade. Brenton Ooyle - 43 wRC+ Joey Weimer - 75 wRC+ Leody Taveras - 98 wRC+ Myles Straw - 69 wRC+ Just four examples, all center fielders, with one thing in common: Plus center fielders defensively at a position that demands it. Two of those guys were/are on playoff teams. Ryan, it's called a wish list. I'm hoping they can find someone. If they can find someone with simply one down year for himself, such as last year, then that may work. If you're only looking at stats from last year, then that's not fair. I get it that it may be difficult to find someone, but I hope they do. If they can't, then limit his at bats as creatively as possible. Going multi-year makes it worse for your argument, not better. He's fine as a 9 hitter on a better coached team. |
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Post by johneaztec on Oct 20, 2023 14:27:59 GMT -8
Ryan, it's called a wish list. I'm hoping they can find someone. If they can find someone with simply one down year for himself, such as last year, then that may work. If you're only looking at stats from last year, then that's not fair. I get it that it may be difficult to find someone, but I hope they do. If they can't, then limit his at bats as creatively as possible. Going multi-year makes it worse for your argument, not better. He's fine as a 9 hitter on a better coached team. What's your thoughts on Melvin? You were very high on him when we signed him. Did he all of a sudden lose his touch? Are going to blame other coaches? Are you talking the hitting coach? I'm guessing you're going to lay it mostly on the analytics/strategy coach. |
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Post by aztecryan on Oct 20, 2023 15:01:01 GMT -8
Going multi-year makes it worse for your argument, not better. He's fine as a 9 hitter on a better coached team. What's your thoughts on Melvin? You were very high on him when we signed him. Did he all of a sudden lose his touch? Are going to blame other coaches? Are you talking the hitting coach? I'm guessing you're going to lay it mostly on the analytics/strategy coach. I'm going to lay the blame where I know it belongs. Flaherty, the advanced scouting and gameplanning coordinator, with a tinge of dysfunctionality of not having an actual hitting coach. The advanced metrics indicate a bit of bad luck, too. Combination of stuff. |
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Post by sdsuball on Oct 20, 2023 15:59:40 GMT -8
If you can get a guy that can hit better than Grisham (shouldn't be difficult) but is just an average center fielder, then it doesn't make Azocar redundant And it's so easy you haven't been able to name....anyone. And you're in the same position then. You're trading offense for defense and upgrading nothing. You don't need an average centerfielder. You need an average right fielder who can substitute for Grisham in his third at bat, sliding Tatis to center for the 7th/8th/9th. |
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Post by sdsuball on Oct 20, 2023 16:02:01 GMT -8
I'm wondering if anyone has actually bothered to look at lineups around baseball and look at the bottom of the order to gain some useful context as to how this isn't just boot Grisham for an easy upgrade. Brenton Ooyle - 43 wRC+ Joey Weimer - 75 wRC+ Leody Taveras - 98 wRC+ Myles Straw - 69 wRC+ Just four examples, all center fielders, with one thing in common: Plus center fielders defensively at a position that demands it. Two of those guys were/are on playoff teams. I think you're missing the portion of my argument where I'm saying that Grisham is +WAR defensively, -WAR offensively, so having him start for 6-7 innings but only get 2 at-bats is maximizing the DWAR while minimizing the OWAR. Then you just need an average right fielder and slide Tatis to center for a couple of innings. Or you do the opposite in games where he doesn't start - sub him in as a defensive replacement right after the person bats that he is replacing (can even pinch run for them too). Then he can play defense for a few innings without any at bats |
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Post by aardvark on Oct 20, 2023 21:27:19 GMT -8
I'm wondering if anyone has actually bothered to look at lineups around baseball and look at the bottom of the order to gain some useful context as to how this isn't just boot Grisham for an easy upgrade. Brenton Ooyle - 43 wRC+ Joey Weimer - 75 wRC+ Leody Taveras - 98 wRC+ Myles Straw - 69 wRC+ Just four examples, all center fielders, with one thing in common: Plus center fielders defensively at a position that demands it. Two of those guys were/are on playoff teams. I think you're missing the portion of my argument where I'm saying that Grisham is +WAR defensively, -WAR offensively, so having him start for 6-7 innings but only get 2 at-bats is maximizing the DWAR while minimizing the OWAR. Then you just need an average right fielder and slide Tatis to center for a couple of innings. Or you do the opposite in games where he doesn't start - sub him in as a defensive replacement right after the person bats that he is replacing (can even pinch run for them too). Then he can play defense for a few innings without any at bats Personally, I don't agree. To me, at least, it doesn't make any sense to put your best RF in CF, and by doing so, weaken your defense in RF |
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Post by johneaztec on Oct 20, 2023 22:14:46 GMT -8
I think you're missing the portion of my argument where I'm saying that Grisham is +WAR defensively, -WAR offensively, so having him start for 6-7 innings but only get 2 at-bats is maximizing the DWAR while minimizing the OWAR. Then you just need an average right fielder and slide Tatis to center for a couple of innings. Or you do the opposite in games where he doesn't start - sub him in as a defensive replacement right after the person bats that he is replacing (can even pinch run for them too). Then he can play defense for a few innings without any at bats Personally, I don't agree. To me, at least, it doesn't make any sense to put your best RF in CF, and by doing so, weaken your defense in RF If you can get better offensive production that way, I say you do it. Get creative with Grisham. |
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