|
Post by Bob Forsythe on Aug 3, 2009 17:30:58 GMT -8
|
|
|
Post by sportnlyf on Aug 3, 2009 23:02:37 GMT -8
According to a report attributed to NPR, the insurance companies (primarily) are spending $1.4 million per week (or maybe it was per day) on their negative campaigning against any consideration of a government option available to citizens. The hiring of buses to haul demonstraters around city to city and state to state to suppress town hall discussions is absurd and a very sad commentary on the state of discourse in this country. It may be time to admit to town hall meetings only those people with zip codes within the congressional districts in order to weed out the hired "concerned citizens." The fact they have organized disruption of these meetings speaks volumes relative to any merit their positions may have. Sad and probably counter productive in the long run as people come to realize those are their premiums being spend for this purpose.
|
|
|
Post by aztecwin on Aug 4, 2009 4:53:00 GMT -8
I am amazed at the different prospective one gets about organizing. Where is the outrage over Acorn and union activities? Where is the outrage at liberal goons blocking the entrance to polling places?
|
|
|
Post by AlwaysAnAztec on Aug 4, 2009 8:17:40 GMT -8
Where is the outrage at liberal goons blocking the entrance to polling places? Please provide evidence of this serious accusation. BTW, if true, I would support sending them to jail for a long long time.
|
|
|
Post by ptsdthor on Aug 4, 2009 8:38:37 GMT -8
‘All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing’
Don't confuse trying to stop terrible policy as doing nothing. Also, most of the GOP's "ideas" in the current debate on healthcare and the recent debate on economic recovery dies/died in committee by force of vote. So please spare us the childish position that believes when no ideas from GOP legislators are at the center of debate, then they must not be engaging in the debate.
Increase Health Savings Accounts, increase competition and make private insurance compete nationally (as opposed to statewide only), enable/increase the pooling of small businesses to obtain volume discounts from insurance providers, provide tax breaks to those who buy insurance without the support of an employer, provide malpractice tort reform, etc, etc. Many of these ideas are simply voted down time and time again and the cry "But you have no answers" is so "playground".
|
|
|
Post by aztecwin on Aug 4, 2009 10:11:39 GMT -8
Where is the outrage at liberal goons blocking the entrance to polling places? Please provide evidence of this serious accusation. BTW, if true, I would support sending them to jail for a long long time. Here is one link. atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2008/11/black-panthers.htmlDo a Google seach and you see lots more. This was in the news for a while until the liberal media stopped talking about it.
|
|
|
Post by Bob Forsythe on Aug 4, 2009 10:29:11 GMT -8
‘All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing’ Don't confuse trying to stop terrible policy as doing nothing. Also, most of the GOP's "ideas" in the current debate on healthcare and the recent debate on economic recovery dies/died in committee by force of vote. So please spare us the childish position that believes when no ideas from GOP legislators are at the center of debate, then they must not be engaging in the debate. Increase Health Savings Accounts, increase competition and make private insurance compete nationally (as opposed to statewide only), enable/increase the pooling of small businesses to obtain volume discounts from insurance providers, provide tax breaks to those who buy insurance without the support of an employer, provide malpractice tort reform, etc, etc. Many of these ideas are simply voted down time and time again and the cry "But you have no answers" is so "playground". Making them compete nationally sounds fine until you realize that what they'll do is move to the state with the least amount of regulation and thereby increase the number of people they don't have to cover. =Bob
|
|
|
Post by aztecwin on Aug 4, 2009 12:38:29 GMT -8
‘All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing’ Don't confuse trying to stop terrible policy as doing nothing. Also, most of the GOP's "ideas" in the current debate on healthcare and the recent debate on economic recovery dies/died in committee by force of vote. So please spare us the childish position that believes when no ideas from GOP legislators are at the center of debate, then they must not be engaging in the debate. Increase Health Savings Accounts, increase competition and make private insurance compete nationally (as opposed to statewide only), enable/increase the pooling of small businesses to obtain volume discounts from insurance providers, provide tax breaks to those who buy insurance without the support of an employer, provide malpractice tort reform, etc, etc. Many of these ideas are simply voted down time and time again and the cry "But you have no answers" is so "playground". Making them compete nationally sounds fine until you realize that what they'll do is move to the state with the least amount of regulation and thereby increase the number of people they don't have to cover. =Bob Explain your reasoning. If you have to compete nationally, does not that imply uniform national regulations?
|
|
|
Post by Bob Forsythe on Aug 4, 2009 12:46:01 GMT -8
Making them compete nationally sounds fine until you realize that what they'll do is move to the state with the least amount of regulation and thereby increase the number of people they don't have to cover. =Bob Explain your reasoning. If you have to compete nationally, does not that imply uniform national regulations? If it's done that way. What McCain was advocating during the campaign was to just allow companies to sell insurance in any state without the state regulation, IIRC. The question is whether or not the right would want to see a set of national rules regarding the coverage. =Bob
|
|
|
Post by ptsdthor on Aug 4, 2009 13:40:10 GMT -8
‘All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing’ Don't confuse trying to stop terrible policy as doing nothing. Also, most of the GOP's "ideas" in the current debate on healthcare and the recent debate on economic recovery dies/died in committee by force of vote. So please spare us the childish position that believes when no ideas from GOP legislators are at the center of debate, then they must not be engaging in the debate. Increase Health Savings Accounts, increase competition and make private insurance compete nationally (as opposed to statewide only), enable/increase the pooling of small businesses to obtain volume discounts from insurance providers, provide tax breaks to those who buy insurance without the support of an employer, provide malpractice tort reform, etc, etc. Many of these ideas are simply voted down time and time again and the cry "But you have no answers" is so "playground". Making them compete nationally sounds fine until you realize that what they'll do is move to the state with the least amount of regulation and thereby increase the number of people they don't have to cover. =Bob Or perhaps the states with the least amount of social engineering mandated onto the insurance provider? Oh Boo Hoo. But plans the GOP pushes keeps the average taxpayer from forking over money to directly subsidize or out and out pay for healthcare for illegal aliens, those who are well enough off and are "voluntarily" uninsured, those who are chronically unemployed (read that - refuse to work for a living), and those too lazy or ignorant to take advantage of existing state safety net insurance systems, etc., etc. Also, no great increase in unemployment will result as avoiding mandated coverages will eliminate issues with marginally performing small business. So plans that include these "ideas" would be vastly superior to what is being bandied about by the Democrats IMO. Also, the proposed Draconian methods for service reduction, rationing and reimbursement reductions can be applied to those who are already in Government's care since the Gov really does need to scale back on the costs of Medicare and Medicaid. And I don't buy the argument that the only way to scale them back is to throw everyone into the mix first. To know we have a fraction of the population in Government Healthcare already and it is breaking us and then to say the solution is to throw even more people into a similar program is insanity.
|
|
|
Post by davdesid on Aug 4, 2009 14:35:27 GMT -8
According to a report attributed to NPR, the insurance companies (primarily) are spending $1.4 million per week (or maybe it was per day) on their negative campaigning against any consideration of a government option available to citizens. The hiring of buses to haul demonstraters around city to city and state to state to suppress town hall discussions is absurd and a very sad commentary on the state of discourse in this country. It may be time to admit to town hall meetings only those people with zip codes within the congressional districts in order to weed out the hired "concerned citizens." The fact they have organized disruption of these meetings speaks volumes relative to any merit their positions may have. Sad and probably counter productive in the long run as people come to realize those are their premiums being spend for this purpose. Hmmmm... Maybe "Alinsky's Rules for Radicals" is no longer confined to the left wing nut-jobs. I doubt very much the NPR report. But one can hope.
|
|
|
Post by Bob Forsythe on Aug 4, 2009 15:01:16 GMT -8
Making them compete nationally sounds fine until you realize that what they'll do is move to the state with the least amount of regulation and thereby increase the number of people they don't have to cover. =Bob Or perhaps the states with the least amount of social engineering mandated onto the insurance provider? Oh Boo Hoo. But plans the GOP pushes keeps the average taxpayer from forking over money to directly subsidize or out and out pay for healthcare for illegal aliens, those who are well enough off and are "voluntarily" uninsured, those who are chronically unemployed (read that - refuse to work for a living), and those too lazy or ignorant to take advantage of existing state safety net insurance systems, etc., etc. Also, no great increase in unemployment will result as avoiding mandated coverages will eliminate issues with marginally performing small business. So plans that include these "ideas" would be vastly superior to what is being bandied about by the Democrats IMO. Also, the proposed Draconian methods for service reduction, rationing and reimbursement reductions can be applied to those who are already in Government's care since the Gov really does need to scale back on the costs of Medicare and Medicaid. And I don't buy the argument that the only way to scale them back is to throw everyone into the mix first. To know we have a fraction of the population in Government Healthcare already and it is breaking us and then to say the solution is to throw even more people into a similar program is insanity. Since your response is nothing more than the usual diatribe we expect from you, there is no reason for me to respond beyond recognizing an ideologue when I see one. =Bob
|
|
|
Post by Bob Forsythe on Aug 4, 2009 15:05:44 GMT -8
Hmmmm... Maybe "Alinsky's Rules for Radicals" is no longer confined to the left wing nut-jobs. Dave, tell me something. Have you ever read a book that offered you some ideas that you thought you could use while offering other ideas that you thought were out of line? I'm sorry, but you are assuming that Obama is so stupid that he can't filter out what he doesn't like in what he's read. =Bob
|
|
|
Post by ptsdthor on Aug 4, 2009 15:15:31 GMT -8
Or perhaps the states with the least amount of social engineering mandated onto the insurance provider? Oh Boo Hoo. But plans the GOP pushes keeps the average taxpayer from forking over money to directly subsidize or out and out pay for healthcare for illegal aliens, those who are well enough off and are "voluntarily" uninsured, those who are chronically unemployed (read that - refuse to work for a living), and those too lazy or ignorant to take advantage of existing state safety net insurance systems, etc., etc. Also, no great increase in unemployment will result as avoiding mandated coverages will eliminate issues with marginally performing small business. So plans that include these "ideas" would be vastly superior to what is being bandied about by the Democrats IMO. Also, the proposed Draconian methods for service reduction, rationing and reimbursement reductions can be applied to those who are already in Government's care since the Gov really does need to scale back on the costs of Medicare and Medicaid. And I don't buy the argument that the only way to scale them back is to throw everyone into the mix first. To know we have a fraction of the population in Government Healthcare already and it is breaking us and then to say the solution is to throw even more people into a similar program is insanity. Since your response is nothing more than the usual diatribe we expect from you, there is no reason for me to respond beyond recognizing an ideologue when I see one. =Bob aka ya got nuthin'
|
|
|
Post by davdesid on Aug 4, 2009 16:35:46 GMT -8
pajamasmedia.com/instapundit/82990/The NPR and White House spin.... I sure wish the insurance companies could actually augment this grass roots movement. Go ahead. Put me on report: flag@whitehouse.gov "If you get an email or see something on the web about health insurance reform that seems fishy, send it to flag@whitehouse.gov."
|
|
|
Post by Bob Forsythe on Aug 4, 2009 16:46:14 GMT -8
Since your response is nothing more than the usual diatribe we expect from you, there is no reason for me to respond beyond recognizing an ideologue when I see one. =Bob aka ya got nuthin' Oh please. Will you please to God give a rest to your pathetic whine about "social engineering"? It says nothing except your inability to offer anything more than the usual right-wing talking points and buzz words. I mean really. The best you can come up with is right-wing talking points that you picked up from whatever right-wing blog you happened to read this morning? How pathetic is that? What's next? You going to claim that the health care plan is aimed at killing off old people? Try thinking on your own for a change. You might be surprised. =Bob
|
|
|
Post by Bob Forsythe on Aug 4, 2009 16:52:28 GMT -8
I see. You bitch about "spin" while you offer nothing except the arguments you get from right-wingnut websites (which you happily offer as "The Truth"). =Bob
|
|
|
Post by davdesid on Aug 4, 2009 16:58:42 GMT -8
I see. You bitch about "spin" while you offer nothing except the arguments you get from right-wingnut websites (which you happily offer as "The Truth"). =Bob Yup. Just like the "thinkprogress" left-wingnut sewage you offered in order to start this thread.
|
|
|
Post by ptsdthor on Aug 4, 2009 18:45:58 GMT -8
Oh please. Will you please to God give a rest to your pathetic whine about "social engineering"? It says nothing except your inability to offer anything more than the usual right-wing talking points and buzz words. I mean really. The best you can come up with is right-wing talking points that you picked up from whatever right-wing blog you happened to read this morning? How pathetic is that? What's next? You going to claim that the health care plan is aimed at killing off old people? Try thinking on your own for a change. You might be surprised. =Bob Oh pobrecito. Can't hack the debate? By the way, how do you know I didn't put that in there just to get to your goad and make you bite on cue. But regardless, you ask the question and the answers stick in your craw. Boo Hoo. And if you can't hack the debate, that is really your problem and as far as saying I have to surf the net to counter the idiocy coming out the Democrats really gives them way too much credit. Don't transfer your foibles to me.
|
|
|
Post by AztecWilliam on Aug 5, 2009 9:05:38 GMT -8
‘All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing’ Don't confuse trying to stop terrible policy as doing nothing. Also, most of the GOP's "ideas" in the current debate on healthcare and the recent debate on economic recovery dies/died in committee by force of vote. So please spare us the childish position that believes when no ideas from GOP legislators are at the center of debate, then they must not be engaging in the debate. Increase Health Savings Accounts, increase competition and make private insurance compete nationally (as opposed to statewide only), enable/increase the pooling of small businesses to obtain volume discounts from insurance providers, provide tax breaks to those who buy insurance without the support of an employer, provide malpractice tort reform, etc, etc. Many of these ideas are simply voted down time and time again and the cry "But you have no answers" is so "playground". Making them compete nationally sounds fine until you realize that what they'll do is move to the state with the least amount of regulation and thereby increase the number of people they don't have to cover. =Bob The case for national, as opposed to state-by-state, insurance coverage is powerful, Bob. Forcing a company to rely on the very small pool of customers in, say, North Dakota, makes no sense. The Feds could always change regulatory rules to prevent abuses while allowing companies to work with much larger risk pools. Come on, Bob. You are a smart guy and you know darned well that the larger the risk pool the less costly the insurance. As for pre-existing conditions, one way to handle that would be to mandate that everyone buy insurance. That would prevent someone from waiting until they are in serious trouble (illness or injury) before buying insurance. An analogy would be to wait until your house or building is on fire before buying fire insurance. My guiding principle continues to be the following: keep as many areas of national economic and social life OUT of the control of the government as possible. A corollary is this: when political considerations become more important than practical ones, you are in trouble. AzWm
|
|