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Post by William L. Rupp on Jul 25, 2009 22:51:41 GMT -8
Barack Obama's recent press conference was largely a snooze-fest until that last question. Instead of saying some such as, " Well, the case raises a number of serious issues, but since I wasn't there and since, furthermore, there has been no formal police report of the incident, it would be inappropriate for me to comment further."Bingo! That's it! That's all he should have said. But, Noooo! He had to shoot from the lip and step right onto an armed and dangerous land mine that almost certainly will hurt him with very large segments of the American public. And right here let me say that the damage done to his reputation will, in not a few cases, be more than the man deserves to suffer. Nobody this side of JFK has come into office in recent memory with a higher popularity rating and higher expectations than Barack Obama. If fact, I'd say his Jan. 20th rating and the expectations place on him and his presidency were even higher than those that accompanied John Kennedy into office in 1961. And I was around and paying close attention then, so my views on this particular comparison should be worth something. One of the really exciting possibilities was that Obama was not about race but about the U.S.A. without regard to the color of one's skin or one's ethnic or national background. Well, for many, he blew that part of his image pretty much out of the water by blasting a highly regarded Cambridge cop who had not even had a chance to tell his story. The Obama brand is all about being so damned smart that he would make G.W. Bush look even worse than people thought in the last year's of the latter's second term. As I said, Obama may be diminished worse than he deserves in the eyes of many. But he has only himself to blame for not realizing that everything. . . EVERYTHING . . . a President says has consequences. Here is another view on this case. . . www.ocregister.com/articles/gates-professor-black-2506786-racism-sgtAzWm |
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Post by aztecwin on Jul 26, 2009 6:31:20 GMT -8
He has done irreparable damage to himself with this blunder.
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Post by Bob Forsythe on Jul 26, 2009 7:58:39 GMT -8
He has done irreparable damage to himself with this blunder.  =Bob |
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Post by temeculaaztec on Jul 28, 2009 7:22:49 GMT -8
I had a Professor once (at SDSU) who said "Politicians who don't know when to talk and when to shut up makes them a fool..." I think that was pretty close to what he said. Seems to certainly apply here in this case.
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Post by Bob Forsythe on Jul 28, 2009 9:41:18 GMT -8
I had a Professor once (at SDSU) who said "Politicians who don't know when to talk and when to shut up makes them a fool..." I think that was pretty close to what he said. Seems to certainly apply here in this case. One thing about Obama, though. He tends to turn these things into a larger picture. In this case, having the two parties to the WH to talk over a beer. He can use that to broaden the discussion on race, because let's face it - there are too many areas of this country where Driving While Black will still get the driver pulled over, just to offer an example. =Bob |
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Post by aztecwin on Jul 28, 2009 10:27:33 GMT -8
I wonder what can get done with this meeting over a beer. I think that I would be very guarded about going in their if I were the policeman. Maybe insist on coverage by CSPAN or something. I just don't trust Obama or Gates. You must try to be certain that you are not a subject in one of Obama's "teachable moments". www.americanthinker.com/2009/07/baracks_teachable_moment.html |
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Post by Bob Forsythe on Jul 28, 2009 14:32:14 GMT -8
I wonder what can get done with this meeting over a beer. I think that I would be very guarded about going in their if I were the policeman. Maybe insist on coverage by CSPAN or something. I just don't trust Obama or Gates. You must try to be certain that you are not a subject in one of Obama's "teachable moments". www.americanthinker.com/2009/07/baracks_teachable_moment.htmlThis is such crap. There is no connection between the two except in this stupid bitch's mind. Being a cop is a dangerous job, but Crowley was never in a dangerous situation. He got pissed because a middle aged black man who walks with a cane, got in his face and Massachusetts has a very loose definition of "disorderly conduct". Obama has since said that he thinks both parties overreacted. By bringing them together, and, I'm sure, having some sort of press statement afterwards, will allow the entire thing to go away except for discussions about race in this country. Please feel free to continue offering such diatribes from the American Stinker. They just continue to show how far to the right-wingnut side idiot publications like that have moved. =Bob |
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Post by aztecwin on Jul 28, 2009 15:35:49 GMT -8
I wonder what can get done with this meeting over a beer. I think that I would be very guarded about going in their if I were the policeman. Maybe insist on coverage by CSPAN or something. I just don't trust Obama or Gates. You must try to be certain that you are not a subject in one of Obama's "teachable moments". www.americanthinker.com/2009/07/baracks_teachable_moment.htmlThis is such crap. There is no connection between the two except in this stupid bitch's mind. Being a cop is a dangerous job, but Crowley was never in a dangerous situation. He got pissed because a middle aged black man who walks with a cane, got in his face and Massachusetts has a very loose definition of "disorderly conduct". Obama has since said that he thinks both parties overreacted. By bringing them together, and, I'm sure, having some sort of press statement afterwards, will allow the entire thing to go away except for discussions about race in this country. Please feel free to continue offering such diatribes from the American Stinker. They just continue to show how far to the right-wingnut side idiot publications like that have moved. =Bob Here is laughing at you and your predictable response.  |
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Post by Bob Forsythe on Jul 30, 2009 18:41:09 GMT -8
Narcissistic tactlessness on the part of Obama suggested Sergeant James Crowley, responding to a complaint that a home burglary was in progress, behaved with racial bias. The President opined as bereaved pallbearers ferried DiNardo's flag draped coffin above the throngs of mourners in Jersey City, morbidly shooting the President ahead of the funeral cortège in the news cycle.This is such crap. There is no connection between the two except in this stupid bitch's mind. Being a cop is a dangerous job, but Crowley was never in a dangerous situation. He got pissed because a middle aged black man who walks with a cane, got in his face and Massachusetts has a very loose definition of "disorderly conduct". Obama has since said that he thinks both parties overreacted. By bringing them together, and, I'm sure, having some sort of press statement afterwards, will allow the entire thing to go away except for discussions about race in this country. Please feel free to continue offering such diatribes from the American Stinker. They just continue to show how far to the right-wingnut side idiot publications like that have moved. =Bob Here is laughing at you and your predictable response. Nowhere near as predictable as your response. After all, IIRC, you predicted that this would be the issue that brings Obama down. Damn, looks like that won't happen. But then again, it was rather predictable that you would be incapable of offering anything approaching a response that is more than a troll. I mean really, Pooh. Being too cute by half does not lend itself to offering an impression that you have any sort of skills when it comes to political arguments. =Bob |
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Post by aztecwin on Jul 31, 2009 10:54:42 GMT -8
Here is laughing at you and your predictable response. Nowhere near as predictable as your response. After all, IIRC, you predicted that this would be the issue that brings Obama down. Damn, looks like that won't happen. But then again, it was rather predictable that you would be incapable of offering anything approaching a response that is more than a troll. I mean really, Pooh. Being too cute by half does not lend itself to offering an impression that you have any sort of skills when it comes to political arguments. =Bob Where did I say this would bring Obama down? It is not helping, but hardly the single issue that would bring him down. |
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Post by sportnlyf on Jul 31, 2009 12:08:26 GMT -8
I believe that President Obama made a mistake and an uncharacteristic poor choice of words in the manner in which he entered into this controversy. In hindsight and privately, I think he would admit that he "acted stupidly" at that moment, and particularly in using the words "acted stupidly" in describing an incident in which a friend was involved, but he did not have first hand information.
That said, arresting a man for disorderly conduct, after investigating that man for illegally entering a house that you have determined he did indeed own is not very good judgement, if not arguably a matter of "acting stupidly."
Considering that Sgt. Crowley's superiors quickly dropped the charges suggests that they would agree.
The post-beer comments of both Gates and Crowley leads me to believe that they are probably two decent guys who allowed an unusual event that brought them together get out of hand.
I think Gates, tired after a long trip, frustrated after a lengthy fight with a jammed door and a deeply ingrained chip in his shoulder permitted those circumstances to shorten his fuse to the point that he over reacted to the cops who had come to protect a property they did not realize was his.
As the senior officer among the three cops who were just doing their jobs, Sgt. Crowley had to be in charge of the situation. Gates reaction escalated the situation and Crowley's reaction to that confrontation was to arrest Gates. Both men in my opinion over reacted to the situations they were confronted with.
President Obama over reacted in his initial comment.
But now lets give all three men some credit.
After the arrest, Gates backed off in a statement and was later gracious (according to Crowley) in meeting the Crowley family during a tour of the White House.
In turn, Crowley (according to Gates) was gracious to him and his family when they met during the tour.
Credit to Obama's advisors (probably Axelrod and/or Emmanuel) who likely told him that he needed to move quickly to correct his own mistake and should consider following up on Crowley's earlier suggestion that they should discuss it some day over a beer, an inspired if not brilliant bit of political stage craft on their part.
Credit to Obama, who if it was not his idea was open to his advisors suggestion and moved quickly to schedule that event.
Afterward, the comments of Gates and Crowley, while maybe not apologetic were conciliatory and gentlemanly toward each other.
As for Obama, he turned an initial loss into a gain by demonstrating some leadership in facing and addressing an issue by bringing together all three men who'd made a mistake.
As for Biden, he may not have made a mistake this time, but then he didn't drink a real beer either.
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Post by AlwaysAnAztec on Jul 31, 2009 14:07:12 GMT -8
I believe that President Obama made a mistake and an uncharacteristic poor choice of words in the manner in which he entered into this controversy. In hindsight and privately, I think he would admit that he "acted stupidly" at that moment, and particularly in using the words "acted stupidly" in describing an incident in which a friend was involved, but he did not have first hand information. That said, arresting a man for disorderly conduct, after investigating that man for illegally entering a house that you have determined he did indeed own is not very good judgment, if not arguably a matter of "acting stupidly." Considering that Sgt. Crowley's superiors quickly dropped the charges suggests that they would agree. The post-beer comments of both Gates and Crowley leads me to believe that they are probably two decent guys who allowed an unusual event that brought them together get out of hand. I think Gates, tired after a long trip, frustrated after a lengthy fight with a jammed door and a deeply ingrained chip in his shoulder permitted those circumstances to shorten his fuse to the point that he over reacted to the cops who had come to protect a property they did not realize was his. As the senior officer among the three cops who were just doing their jobs, Sgt. Crowley had to be in charge of the situation. Gates reaction escalated the situation and Crowley's reaction to that confrontation was to arrest Gates. Both men in my opinion over reacted to the situations they were confronted with. President Obama over reacted in his initial comment. But now lets give all three men some credit. After the arrest, Gates backed off in a statement and was later gracious (according to Crowley) in meeting the Crowley family during a tour of the White House. In turn, Crowley (according to Gates) was gracious to him and his family when they met during the tour. Credit to Obama's advisors (probably Axelrod and/or Emmanuel) who likely told him that he needed to move quickly to correct his own mistake and should consider following up on Crowley's earlier suggestion that they should discuss it some day over a beer, an inspired if not brilliant bit of political stage craft on their part. Credit to Obama, who if it was not his idea was open to his advisors suggestion and moved quickly to schedule that event. Afterward, the comments of Gates and Crowley, while maybe not apologetic were conciliatory and gentlemanly toward each other. As for Obama, he turned an initial loss into a gain by demonstrating some leadership in facing and addressing an issue by bringing together all three men who'd made a mistake. As for Biden, he may not have made a mistake this time, but then he didn't drink a real beer either. Great analysis. Pretty much sums up the entire episode. |
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Post by aztecwin on Jul 31, 2009 16:06:52 GMT -8
I believe that President Obama made a mistake and an uncharacteristic poor choice of words in the manner in which he entered into this controversy. In hindsight and privately, I think he would admit that he "acted stupidly" at that moment, and particularly in using the words "acted stupidly" in describing an incident in which a friend was involved, but he did not have first hand information. That said, arresting a man for disorderly conduct, after investigating that man for illegally entering a house that you have determined he did indeed own is not very good judgment, if not arguably a matter of "acting stupidly." Considering that Sgt. Crowley's superiors quickly dropped the charges suggests that they would agree. The post-beer comments of both Gates and Crowley leads me to believe that they are probably two decent guys who allowed an unusual event that brought them together get out of hand. I think Gates, tired after a long trip, frustrated after a lengthy fight with a jammed door and a deeply ingrained chip in his shoulder permitted those circumstances to shorten his fuse to the point that he over reacted to the cops who had come to protect a property they did not realize was his. As the senior officer among the three cops who were just doing their jobs, Sgt. Crowley had to be in charge of the situation. Gates reaction escalated the situation and Crowley's reaction to that confrontation was to arrest Gates. Both men in my opinion over reacted to the situations they were confronted with. President Obama over reacted in his initial comment. But now lets give all three men some credit. After the arrest, Gates backed off in a statement and was later gracious (according to Crowley) in meeting the Crowley family during a tour of the White House. In turn, Crowley (according to Gates) was gracious to him and his family when they met during the tour. Credit to Obama's advisors (probably Axelrod and/or Emmanuel) who likely told him that he needed to move quickly to correct his own mistake and should consider following up on Crowley's earlier suggestion that they should discuss it some day over a beer, an inspired if not brilliant bit of political stage craft on their part. Credit to Obama, who if it was not his idea was open to his advisors suggestion and moved quickly to schedule that event. Afterward, the comments of Gates and Crowley, while maybe not apologetic were conciliatory and gentlemanly toward each other. As for Obama, he turned an initial loss into a gain by demonstrating some leadership in facing and addressing an issue by bringing together all three men who'd made a mistake. As for Biden, he may not have made a mistake this time, but then he didn't drink a real beer either. I was going to try to show you why Obama showed poor judgment in staging the "beerfest", but your last statement made me lose my train of thought. Good one! |
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Post by Bob Forsythe on Jul 31, 2009 16:41:37 GMT -8
Gates, in his statement, said, ""When he's not arresting you, Sergeant Crowley is a really likable guy."
While I'm white, I did deal with this in OB, at least to a certain extent but not what blacks dealt with at the time. We got "hassled" on a rather constant basis. I had to put up with a "street interrogation" of 5 minutes simply because some guy panhandled a quarter from me on Newport Ave. They assumed that I might have been selling him dope.
But, OTOH, when the cops would come to our "teen center" we came to understand that once they weren't on duty, they weren't all that bad. But still, through dialog in that center, we got the first police community center in this City and we eventually got them to stop hassling kids who had done nothing other than being kids.
=Bob
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