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Post by AztecBill on Feb 9, 2016 2:05:35 GMT -8
I watched the replay on youtube and did a stop action and saw his foot down and the ball aways from his fingers. But when I moved a little further along the video I noticed his foot moved on the background meaning his foot wasn't down. It isn't down until it is touching the bottom of the middle prong of the "E" in Aztecs. By that time the ball is very close to his fingers and probably touching them.
Click on the little wheel on the bottom right to get a menu. Select 1/4 speed and 1080 HD. Click the bottom right [] to get full screen. Go to the 46 second mark by clicking in the timer at the bottom.
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Post by AztecBill on Feb 9, 2016 3:02:15 GMT -8
I watched the slow motion clip at an additional 1/4 speed, full screen, in Super HD and I could see when his shoe reacted from hitting the floor. I paused on that frame. The ball was between his hands. It had already passed his fingers and may or may not have brushed his fingers or hand. The video is inconclusive. The MWC blew their statement.
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Post by Pasadenaztec on Feb 9, 2016 4:32:35 GMT -8
It's time to move on from this play.
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Post by longtimesdsufan on Feb 9, 2016 5:39:03 GMT -8
Different take on this. The MW does not back it's referees.
We want the best, but this is not how you get them. This a judgment call should not have a comment from the MW. Only rule errors require a comment.
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Post by longtimebooster on Feb 9, 2016 5:46:04 GMT -8
Concur completely. This play is so close that the NFL would likely not overturn it because the evidence wasn't conclusive. Additionally, Neal passes the ball to his teammate when the teammate is still 8 feet out of bounds with both feet firmly planted in the key. The optics of that just look bad. Furthermore, I believe the term is that you have to "establish" position either in bounds or out of bounds before receiving the ball. Establish. That connotes being under control and firmly positioned. The UNM player was anything but. How anyone from New Mexico can b*tch about this call is beyond me. You're up by 3. There are 12.9 seconds left. You run a play that's so close to the edge that you put the game in the ref's hands? Really? That's moronic. Shame on your players. Shame on your coaches. As Mark Z stated, it was a Mickey Mouse statement from a Mickey Mouse league.
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Post by Xolotl on Feb 9, 2016 6:53:18 GMT -8
Different take on this. The MW does not back it's referees. We want the best, but this is not how you get them. This a judgment call should not have a comment from the MW. Only rule errors require a comment. This I had the same conclusion. Our players kept playing, they didn't make the call they lived with it. The MW (Hair) not only criticized their own refs, but belittled our win. Now the selection committee (if it comes to that) can look back and say..."oh, SDSU lucked out on that one according to the conference officials". Z had it right : but it's not the conference that is Mickey Mouse, its the rats that are running it.  |
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Post by MarshallU on Feb 9, 2016 7:31:06 GMT -8
is the horse dead yet?
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Post by sleepy on Feb 9, 2016 7:35:52 GMT -8
Forgetting for the moment what happened on the actual play (looks to me like it was down by the barest of margins)...
What the hell is the MWC doing releasing a statement on one bang-bang play? What exactly is the rationale (agenda?) there?
Said it before and I'll say it again, there were a lot of calls way more questionable than that throughout the game. Let's start with Noodles out in the middle of the court time after time. He looked like he was ready to jump ball at center court one time. Then, some of those foul calls in the first half...
Where is the MWC statement on those?
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Post by zed on Feb 9, 2016 8:02:01 GMT -8
Wish this thread was "Not Reviewable"...  |
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Post by RiffelBooks on Feb 9, 2016 8:19:51 GMT -8
Slowing it down to one-quarter speed is meaningless. The only thing that matters is what happened at full speed, and from that I can see how McCall made his judgment. While I was far away, I had a good angle on the play, and was surprised to get home, go on the Internet and see the call had become controversial.
The MW is awful.
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Post by haleiwaaztec on Feb 9, 2016 8:29:46 GMT -8
Zeigler was on the radio yesterday talking about how the ref that made that call is one of the best in the NCAA and the MW is stupid to call him out. As all of us who watched that game, the other two guys made calls a lot worse (most of them going against the Aztecs).
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Post by sdcoug on Feb 9, 2016 9:02:51 GMT -8
In slow-mo his foot is down (barely), but at live speed it could go either way.
With every game teams can submit plays to the league for review if they feel they've been wronged. We've done it often, and I'm sure we all remember when the league admitted they got 9 calls wrong against us in a football game. You know Neal was going to submit this play to the league for review, and you know they would come back with the same conclusion, at which time NM would make a big deal about them getting wronged. It would have come out one way or another.
Whether get ahead of it & releasing on their own was the right thing to do is very debatable, but it was going to come out that the league agreed the call was wrong, one way or the other.
The good thing is the fact it was wrong is in the past, and isn't coming out tomorrow right before our game (or later in the week). People were going to debate it for a week anyway, and there would be articles. This way it is DONE, rather than having debate and then having an argument later about the league's decision.
This happens with every controversial/close call at a critical time in a game. Leagues are asked to make rulings and they do so. I do believe the leagues reply could have painting a better picture of the refs, saying more about how it easily could have been interpreted as it was.
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Post by biotec on Feb 9, 2016 9:10:13 GMT -8
The horse is dead, decomposed, fertilized a tree, and now people are beating the tree. |
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Post by matteosandiego on Feb 9, 2016 10:09:36 GMT -8
I watched the replay on youtube and did a stop action and saw his foot down and the ball aways from his fingers. But when I moved a little further along the video I noticed his foot moved on the background meaning his foot wasn't down. It isn't down until it is touching the bottom of the middle prong of the "E" in Aztecs. By that time the ball is very close to his fingers and probably touching them. Click on the little wheel on the bottom right to get a menu. Select 1/4 speed and 1080 HD. Click the bottom right [] to get full screen. Go to the 46 second mark by clicking in the timer at the bottom. Wow i really appreciate this thread. Time to move on yes, but thanks for this slow-mo look. It really proves that it was a bang-bang type of play for the ref in real time. And well, it should NOT have been that close of a play. New Mexico has only themselves to blame. Execute properly and dont leave it up to the officials to have to make that. On to Fresno! |
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Post by sdcoug on Feb 9, 2016 10:41:55 GMT -8
I watched the replay on youtube and did a stop action and saw his foot down and the ball aways from his fingers. But when I moved a little further along the video I noticed his foot moved on the background meaning his foot wasn't down. It isn't down until it is touching the bottom of the middle prong of the "E" in Aztecs. By that time the ball is very close to his fingers and probably touching them. Click on the little wheel on the bottom right to get a menu. Select 1/4 speed and 1080 HD. Click the bottom right [] to get full screen. Go to the 46 second mark by clicking in the timer at the bottom. Wow i really appreciate this thread. Time to move on yes, but thanks for this slow-mo look. It really proves that it was a bang-bang type of play for the ref in real time. And well, it should NOT have been that close of a play.New Mexico has only themselves to blame. Execute properly and dont leave it up to the officials to have to make that. On to Fresno! Agreed - horse beaten, and it was going to come out statement or no statement.
But what's been ignored is your comment. You do the baseline to baseline pass when the other players are closely guarded (doubled) & no one is on the inbounder. As it turned out, Z dropped off #21. #21 should have stopped 3 feet inbounds, taken the pass & returned it to Neal. They didn't need to run Neal down the court or anything. They just need to get the ball inbounds, take the foul, and make 1 of 2.
Once Z dropped off (which to me was a mistake at the time) they should have been smart enough to abort. They weren't. Bad court awareness.
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Post by TheSanDiegan on Feb 9, 2016 10:52:59 GMT -8
I watched the replay on youtube and did a stop action and saw his foot down and the ball aways from his fingers. But when I moved a little further along the video I noticed his foot moved on the background meaning his foot wasn't down. It isn't down until it is touching the bottom of the middle prong of the "E" in Aztecs. By that time the ball is very close to his fingers and probably touching them. Click on the little wheel on the bottom right to get a menu. Select 1/4 speed and 1080 HD. Click the bottom right [] to get full screen. Go to the 46 second mark by clicking in the timer at the bottom. Wow i really appreciate this thread. Time to move on yes, but thanks for this slow-mo look. It really proves that it was a bang-bang type of play for the ref in real time. And well, it should NOT have been that close of a play. New Mexico has only themselves to blame. Execute properly and dont leave it up to the officials to have to make that. On to Fresno! FWIW, we have a Lobo fan to thank for that video.  He/she posts on the MWC board and is consistently level-headed and reasonable. |
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Post by TheSanDiegan on Feb 9, 2016 10:58:05 GMT -8
Wow i really appreciate this thread. Time to move on yes, but thanks for this slow-mo look. It really proves that it was a bang-bang type of play for the ref in real time. And well, it should NOT have been that close of a play.New Mexico has only themselves to blame. Execute properly and dont leave it up to the officials to have to make that. On to Fresno! Agreed - horse beaten, and it was going to come out statement or no statement.
But what's been ignored is your comment. You do the baseline to baseline pass when the other players are closely guarded (doubled) & no one is on the inbounder. As it turned out, Z dropped off #21. #21 should have stopped 3 feet inbounds, taken the pass & returned it to Neal. They didn't need to run Neal down the court or anything. They just need to get the ball inbounds, take the foul, and make 1 of 2.
Once Z dropped off (which to me was a mistake at the time) they should have been smart enough to abort. They weren't. Bad court awareness.
Great call, SDC. There was something about that play that had been bugging me, and your elucidation hit the nail on the head. UNM has no one to blame but themselves. * At least now we can put the Zapruder film to rest and instead focus on some feisty Fresnecks. *And the refs of course. And the conference. And us. And for some strange reason, Winston Shepard. |
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Post by AztecBill on Feb 9, 2016 11:19:11 GMT -8
Has anyone else seen the frame where his show reacts to hitting the floor? There are numerous frames that you can stop action and it seems to show his foot is down. That is why looking at the video in slow motion gives the optical illusion of his foot being down first. Without seeing the shoe flex when it hits the floor, you can not judge the issue.
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Post by missiontrails on Feb 9, 2016 11:23:21 GMT -8
I say when we travel to the funny named arena formerly known as The Pit, our first inbounds play should be the same play the Lobos failed on, but of course executed properly by us. Then we should promptly go in to our 1-3-1 defense after we score on them. That ought to get all the unstable wolf-howlers firmly on our side!  |
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eim86
Bench Warmer
Class of '10
Posts: 68
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Post by eim86 on Feb 9, 2016 11:30:45 GMT -8
If the rule is to have both feet established when you have the ball then it was the correct call.
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He/she posts on the MWC board and is consistently level-headed and reasonable.
