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Post by The Aztec Panther on Sept 22, 2015 9:02:17 GMT -8
WOW. That has got to be one of the dumbest "opinions" I have ever heard on here. You honestly have some serious issues if you think that. Hoke did absolute wonders for this team. Rocky took that and then set us back to the Chuck long years. I understand people have opinions and they vary, but you saying Hoke didn't do much more than Rocky is not an opinion when it is that far off the mark. So, don't use the "well that is just my opinion" statement to try to validate what you said. I can say "I think the world is flat, and that is my opinion" So, it must not be wrong since I signed it with a "That is my opinion". LOL, It is fact that Hoke did much more than Rocky. It is not up for discussion. You stating what you said means either you know very little about football, or you are still butt hurt that Hoke left, so the only way you can sleep at night to write off any good that he has done for our school. Plenty of people have that disease, so I am pretty sure that is it, because I can't see someone being so stupid to think that Hoke just a little more than Rocky. Good one lol Your sig says "You are entitled to your own opinion, not your own facts." I think you are letting your emotions warp your view of the facts. Looking at facts based on each coach's winning percentage there is no way that Rocky has taken us back to the Chuck Long years. Rocky has the 3rd best winning percentage of any coach in Aztec football history with a .615 as of the beginning of this season. Chuck Long's record is .250, second worst ever. So, we are nowhere close to the Chuck Long years. Again, just looking at winning record, you have to compare Rocky's .615 to Hoke's sat .520. Third best verses ninth best. I'll grant that Hoke's improvement over his predecessor, was more impressive. But, considering he was replacing the second worst winning coach, that may not be saying a lot. It's hard to advocate getting rid of the coach with the 3rd best winning percentage in Aztec history. There's a large chance the next coach won't be any better, or even as good. But, I'm coming around to the position that a change may be due if only to re-energize the fan base. Sometimes a change, any change, creates excitement. Maybe Rocky will retire "for the good of the program" like he did in New Mexico. Rocky is constantly lauded for having the 3rd best winning percentage of all football head coaches in Aztec history. But he also took over a program that had been rebuilt and learned how to win. He took over a team that went 8-4 in the regular season and won a Bowl game to finish 9-4. He took over a good program. Aside from Claude Gilbert none of the other coaches in Aztec history had that advantage, so his winning percentage is more than a bit skewed because of that. And then you factor in the declining number of regular season wins and his awful record against teams with winning records and you can see that he is nothing more than a middle of the pack coach. Not bad. Good, but not great. Just not good enough to take this program where it needs to go. There are worse criticisms that could be made about a coach. But as this program is having near terminal budget deficits we need a better coach who can accomplish more. That's all.
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Post by gamer2101 on Sept 22, 2015 9:02:09 GMT -8
Of all the positions, Special Teams has shown the most improvement. Give Bobby Hauck a star. Oldie Out Bro this is very true
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Post by AccessBowlTime on Sept 22, 2015 9:05:06 GMT -8
$800K for that awful just awful product he puts on the field. Anything less than firing him at season's end would be criminal. $800K is why we have an awful product. That is a very low end HC salary. The budget for our next coach needs to be $1M+ Mike Norvell makes more than at as an OC. After logically firing Tom Craft, SDSU's administration finally allocated sufficient money to hire a good HC but then Jeff Schemmel wasted it by hiring his buddy Chuck Long. I highly doubt lightning could strike twice but my point is, even if Hirshman bumps the HC salary up by 50% like Weber did for Schemmel, it doesn't necessarily mean we'll get somebody competent to replace Rocky.
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Post by AccessBowlTime on Sept 22, 2015 9:06:22 GMT -8
1st Choice: Dino Babers 2nd Choice: Brady Hoke 3rd Choice: Marshall Faulk (I jest) Real 3rd Choice: Jim Tressel (Next Year) - This would be a hire similar to Steve Fisher I hope you're kidding about Babers too. If not, please explain why in the world he should be considered the best possible choice.
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Post by Sdsu4life on Sept 22, 2015 9:26:30 GMT -8
WOW. That has got to be one of the dumbest "opinions" I have ever heard on here. You honestly have some serious issues if you think that. Hoke did absolute wonders for this team. Rocky took that and then set us back to the Chuck long years. I understand people have opinions and they vary, but you saying Hoke didn't do much more than Rocky is not an opinion when it is that far off the mark. So, don't use the "well that is just my opinion" statement to try to validate what you said. I can say "I think the world is flat, and that is my opinion" So, it must not be wrong since I signed it with a "That is my opinion". LOL, It is fact that Hoke did much more than Rocky. It is not up for discussion. You stating what you said means either you know very little about football, or you are still butt hurt that Hoke left, so the only way you can sleep at night to write off any good that he has done for our school. Plenty of people have that disease, so I am pretty sure that is it, because I can't see someone being so stupid to think that Hoke just a little more than Rocky. Good one lol Your sig says "You are entitled to your own opinion, not your own facts." I think you are letting your emotions warp your view of the facts. Looking at facts based on each coach's winning percentage there is no way that Rocky has taken us back to the Chuck Long years. Rocky has the 3rd best winning percentage of any coach in Aztec football history with a .615 as of the beginning of this season. Chuck Long's record is .250, second worst ever. So, we are nowhere close to the Chuck Long years. Again, just looking at winning record, you have to compare Rocky's .615 to Hoke's sat .520. Third best verses ninth best. I'll grant that Hoke's improvement over his predecessor, was more impressive. But, considering he was replacing the second worst winning coach, that may not be saying a lot. It's hard to advocate getting rid of the coach with the 3rd best winning percentage in Aztec history. There's a large chance the next coach won't be any better, or even as good. But, I'm coming around to the position that a change may be due if only to re-energize the fan base. Sometimes a change, any change, creates excitement. Maybe Rocky will retire "for the good of the program" like he did in New Mexico. We didn't see the full effect of Hoke. He left prematurely. The staff he assembled and recruits he brought were going to do much more than what Rocky did with them. So, you can't compare win percentages when Hoke was only here for 2 years. Win % is all relative. It is like saying that Clay Helton at USC has a 100% winning %, so he did a whole lot more than Pete Carroll's .836 win percent. I saw first hand what Hoke did, saw first hand what Rocky did. What hurt the team the most wasn't losing Hoke, it was losing his entire staff. Those guys were special. Hoke, a good coach, assembled an all star staff. Long, a good coach, assembled a garbage staff. Rocky did well enough with the rest of Hoke's players. But once he brought his in, the decline started. We were on a great path if Hoke & Co. would have stayed, at least another few years. But, can't blame them for leaving.
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Post by kozy on Sept 22, 2015 9:28:57 GMT -8
Your sig says "You are entitled to your own opinion, not your own facts." I think you are letting your emotions warp your view of the facts. Looking at facts based on each coach's winning percentage there is no way that Rocky has taken us back to the Chuck Long years. Rocky has the 3rd best winning percentage of any coach in Aztec football history with a .615 as of the beginning of this season. Chuck Long's record is .250, second worst ever. So, we are nowhere close to the Chuck Long years. Again, just looking at winning record, you have to compare Rocky's .615 to Hoke's sat .520. Third best verses ninth best. I'll grant that Hoke's improvement over his predecessor, was more impressive. But, considering he was replacing the second worst winning coach, that may not be saying a lot. It's hard to advocate getting rid of the coach with the 3rd best winning percentage in Aztec history. There's a large chance the next coach won't be any better, or even as good. But, I'm coming around to the position that a change may be due if only to re-energize the fan base. Sometimes a change, any change, creates excitement. Maybe Rocky will retire "for the good of the program" like he did in New Mexico. We didn't see the full effect of Hoke. He left prematurely. The staff he assembled and recruits he brought were going to do much more than what Rocky did with them. So, you can't compare win percentages when Hoke was only here for 2 years. Win % is all relative. It is like saying that Clay Helton at USC has a 100% winning %, so he did a whole lot more than Pete Carroll's .836 win percent. I saw first hand what Hoke did, saw first hand what Rocky did. What hurt the team the most wasn't losing Hoke, it was losing his entire staff. Those guys were special. Hoke, a good coach, assembled an all star staff. Long, a good coach, assembled a garbage staff.
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Post by kozy on Sept 22, 2015 9:30:05 GMT -8
Long is a garbage coach. Time to take out the garbage because it stinks
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Post by myownwords on Sept 22, 2015 9:31:17 GMT -8
Your sig says "You are entitled to your own opinion, not your own facts." I think you are letting your emotions warp your view of the facts. Looking at facts based on each coach's winning percentage there is no way that Rocky has taken us back to the Chuck Long years. Rocky has the 3rd best winning percentage of any coach in Aztec football history with a .615 as of the beginning of this season. Chuck Long's record is .250, second worst ever. So, we are nowhere close to the Chuck Long years. Again, just looking at winning record, you have to compare Rocky's .615 to Hoke's sat .520. Third best verses ninth best. I'll grant that Hoke's improvement over his predecessor, was more impressive. But, considering he was replacing the second worst winning coach, that may not be saying a lot. It's hard to advocate getting rid of the coach with the 3rd best winning percentage in Aztec history. There's a large chance the next coach won't be any better, or even as good. But, I'm coming around to the position that a change may be due if only to re-energize the fan base. Sometimes a change, any change, creates excitement. Maybe Rocky will retire "for the good of the program" like he did in New Mexico. We didn't see the full effect of Hoke. He left prematurely. The staff he assembled and recruits he brought were going to do much more than what Rocky did with them. So, you can't compare win percentages when Hoke was only here for 2 years. Win % is all relative. It is like saying that Clay Helton at USC has a 100% winning %, so he did a whole lot more than Pete Carroll's .836 win percent. I saw first hand what Hoke did, saw first hand what Rocky did. What hurt the team the most wasn't losing Hoke, it was losing his entire staff. Those guys were special. Hoke, a good coach, assembled an all star staff. Long, a good coach, assembled a garbage staff. Rocky did well enough with the rest of Hoke's players. But once he brought his in, the decline started. We were on a great path if Hoke & Co. would have stayed, at least another few years. But, can't blame them for leaving. But the one thing Rocky brought in better than ANYONE: Excuses
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Post by AztecWilliam on Sept 22, 2015 9:43:51 GMT -8
Tressel has a very nasty black mark on his record. Why do you think he was fired? Not because the Buckeyes were losing. AzWm True, but he made a bad choice. I think he would have learned from it. The guy can coach and he would bring in a lot of talent with him. Personally, I think it's worth the risk. Well, Tressel had a problem telling the truth. That incident probably ruined his chances of getting a head coaching job at a name school. (I guess the people at Youngstown State, who made Tressel their president, for god's sake, see things differently.) Hoke and Tressel are two men who will not be hired to coach football here. AzWm
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Post by uncledougy on Sept 22, 2015 10:30:19 GMT -8
Does anyone think Hoke would want to come back? Do we consider him an Aztec for life?
Also, Tressel would be fantastic!!! Don't ever see that happening but would welcome that in a second. I don't care about baggage. The only guys we can get worth anything will have a little baggage.....or not even own a suit case.
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Post by ignoranus on Sept 22, 2015 10:39:03 GMT -8
Hunkie Cooper.
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Sept 22, 2015 10:40:00 GMT -8
True, but he made a bad choice. I think he would have learned from it. The guy can coach and he would bring in a lot of talent with him. Personally, I think it's worth the risk. Well, Tressel had a problem telling the truth. That incident probably ruined his chances of getting a head coaching job at a name school. (I guess the people at Youngstown State, who made Tressel their president, for god's sake, see things differently.) Hoke and Tressel are two men who will not be hired to coach football here. AzWm Personally, I would support hiring Tressel IF he had a great interview and IF there were a clause in his contract allowing for both his dismissal and HIM owing SDSU a buyout if he got in any further trouble. He could definitely recruit, and we know he's a top level coach. He would just need a staff that can teach and coach players up (that seems to be a problem with former big time college football coaches - sometimes not knowing how to coach up 1 and 2 star recruits because they've never had to coach players like that before). But IF he really wowed them in the interview and admitted to mistakes that he promised not to make again, and IF he agreed to that clause in his contract? I'd be OK with SDSU hiring Tressel.
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Post by Simsonic on Sept 22, 2015 12:11:24 GMT -8
Well, Tressel had a problem telling the truth. That incident probably ruined his chances of getting a head coaching job at a name school. (I guess the people at Youngstown State, who made Tressel their president, for god's sake, see things differently.) Hoke and Tressel are two men who will not be hired to coach football here. AzWm Personally, I would support hiring Tressel IF he had a great interview and IF there were a clause in his contract allowing for both his dismissal and HIM owing SDSU a buyout if he got in any further trouble. He could definitely recruit, and we know he's a top level coach. He would just need a staff that can teach and coach players up (that seems to be a problem with former big time college football coaches - sometimes not knowing how to coach up 1 and 2 star recruits because they've never had to coach players like that before). But IF he really wowed them in the interview and admitted to mistakes that he promised not to make again, and IF he agreed to that clause in his contract? I'd be OK with SDSU hiring Tressel. When you listen to Tressel speak, he admits that he made mistakes. I appreciate honesty from people, above all else. I would like his chances of making us a top 15 program within 5 years.
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Post by Sdsu4life on Sept 22, 2015 12:16:51 GMT -8
Does anyone think Hoke would want to come back? Do we consider him an Aztec for life?Also, Tressel would be fantastic!!! Don't ever see that happening but would welcome that in a second. I don't care about baggage. The only guys we can get worth anything will have a little baggage.....or not even own a suit case. It doesn't matter what you consider him, or I consider him, or WE consider him. So, no reason to factor that in. And I agree about the 2nd paragraph. Everyone is shooting down the idea about guys like Kiffin, Tressel and Orgeron. That is the risk you have to take. That is the trade off. We can get one of those guys and have a hell of a team. Or we can find a submissive cut no corner play by the rules powder puff guy and more than likely remain mediocre while other teams are pushing the boundaries and being successful.
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Post by AztecWilliam on Sept 22, 2015 16:23:12 GMT -8
Does anyone think Hoke would want to come back? Do we consider him an Aztec for life?Also, Tressel would be fantastic!!! Don't ever see that happening but would welcome that in a second. I don't care about baggage. The only guys we can get worth anything will have a little baggage.....or not even own a suit case. It doesn't matter what you consider him, or I consider him, or WE consider him. So, no reason to factor that in. And I agree about the 2nd paragraph. Everyone is shooting down the idea about guys like Kiffin, Tressel and Orgeron. That is the risk you have to take. That is the trade off. We can get one of those guys and have a hell of a team. Or we can find a submissive cut no corner play by the rules powder puff guy and more than likely remain mediocre while other teams are pushing the boundaries and being successful. I can guarantee you that the president of this or any university does indeed care about the character of people being considered for important school positions. I agree that people should be given second chances, but all other things being relatively equal, an employer is going to choose the person with the better character. Now, if someone who has done wrong in the past shows contrition and, importantly, is a much stronger applicant in terms of the relevant qualifications of the position, selecting that person may well be the right decision. As for Tressel in particular, anyone considering him for a college coaching job needs to read the whole story, detailed here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Tressel#NCAA_violations_and_resignation The following section from the Wikipedia article is especially negative regarding Tressel's coaching future . . . (The NCAA) . . . imposed a five-year show-cause penalty on Tressel, which means any NCAA member that wants to hire him would have to "show cause" for why it shouldn't be sanctioned for hiring him, and could face severe penalties if he commits any further violations during that time. The order stands until December 19, 2016; given past precedent, it will likely have the effect of blackballing Tressel from the coaching ranks until the 2017 season. If Tressel ever coaches again during this period, he will be suspended for the first five games of the regular season, plus any conference championship game or bowl game. Considering the extent of Tressel's misconduct, I have to question the integrity of Youngstown State for making him their president. AzWm
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Post by Sdsu4life on Sept 22, 2015 17:18:40 GMT -8
It doesn't matter what you consider him, or I consider him, or WE consider him. So, no reason to factor that in. And I agree about the 2nd paragraph. Everyone is shooting down the idea about guys like Kiffin, Tressel and Orgeron. That is the risk you have to take. That is the trade off. We can get one of those guys and have a hell of a team. Or we can find a submissive cut no corner play by the rules powder puff guy and more than likely remain mediocre while other teams are pushing the boundaries and being successful. I can guarantee you that the president of this or any university does indeed care about the character of people being considered for important school positions. I agree that people should be given second chances, but all other things being relatively equal, an employer is going to choose the person with the better character. Now, if someone who has done wrong in the past shows contrition and, importantly, is a much stronger applicant in terms of the relevant qualifications of the position, selecting that person may well be the right decision.As for Tressel in particular, anyone considering him for a college coaching job needs to read the whole story, detailed here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Tressel#NCAA_violations_and_resignation The following section from the Wikipedia article is especially negative regarding Tressel's coaching future . . . (The NCAA) . . . imposed a five-year show-cause penalty on Tressel, which means any NCAA member that wants to hire him would have to "show cause" for why it shouldn't be sanctioned for hiring him, and could face severe penalties if he commits any further violations during that time. The order stands until December 19, 2016; given past precedent, it will likely have the effect of blackballing Tressel from the coaching ranks until the 2017 season. If Tressel ever coaches again during this period, he will be suspended for the first five games of the regular season, plus any conference championship game or bowl game. Considering the extent of Tressel's misconduct, I have to question the integrity of Youngstown State for making him their president. AzWm My point exactly. And, who are any of us to judge that in a person we don't know? Who are we to judge that they didn't regret what they did and learn from it? We need to give them the benefit of the doubt and believe that they learned from their mistakes. So, I'd take Kiffin or Orgeron in a herat beat.
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Post by SDSU-Alum2003 on Sept 22, 2015 17:27:02 GMT -8
Next SDSU coach will make between $1M - $1.2M. Babers is making $405K at Bowling Green, Campbell is making $482K at Toledo, Orgeron is unemployed, Clay Helton has never been a HC. All of them would take the job if offered. Seems like we will have to double what we are currently paying our head coach to around at least $1.5 million or more to stay competitive with the top schools in the MWC/AAC.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2015 18:19:58 GMT -8
I'd contribute at least that amount but absolutely not for Hoke.... he did little more than RL has done which most everyone here is not satisfied with. I'd rather keep RL on board than have Hoke back. Sorry, but that's my opinion. (Phil, I know you didn't say a word about Hoke. I am just responding to others who did.) He did a lot more than long, you know the program actually improved under him instead of regressing. This is Rocky's 5th year, and the only one that compares to Hoke's last year by sagarin is his second year or the 4th year since Hoke was hired, so basically he could win with Hoke's seniors but not his own. You just love to bash RL any chance you get. As I said, I'd be happy to contribute additional cash for a different coach... just not Hoke. You can say whatever you want I just don't think Hoke was a good coach... he did make fans like you happy for a moment though. He never beat anyone of note just like RL. Hoke was all talk to me. Sorry, but that's my opinion. You are free to have yours. As I have said in various threads, I think we need a new coach and I think criticism is just fine but what I think is wrong with this board is the vitrol thrown at other human beings. You just keep firing your vitrol at Rocky Long on a message board - it clearly makes you happy but won't change a thing about the football team.
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Sept 22, 2015 18:32:44 GMT -8
He did a lot more than long, you know the program actually improved under him instead of regressing. This is Rocky's 5th year, and the only one that compares to Hoke's last year by sagarin is his second year or the 4th year since Hoke was hired, so basically he could win with Hoke's seniors but not his own. You just love to bash RL any chance you get. As I said, I'd be happy to contribute additional cash for a different coach... just not Hoke. You can say whatever you want I just don't think Hoke was a good coach... he did make fans like you happy for a moment though. He never beat anyone of note just like RL. Hoke was all talk to me. Sorry, but that's my opinion. You are free to have yours. As I have said in various threads, I think we need a new coach and I think criticism is just fine but what I think is wrong with this board is the vitrol thrown at other human beings. You just keep firing your vitrol at Rocky Long on a message board - it clearly makes you happy but won't change a thing about the football team. The, "Vitriol," that you are talking about is ALL based on his job performance and his personal handling of his players, the media, the fans, etc. No one is commenting on him as a father or as a husband or as a human being outside of football. This is ALL job related criticism. That's fair game. If you see someone posting anything negative about him on a personal level outside of anything related to his job please let me know.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2015 18:32:35 GMT -8
I'd contribute at least that amount but absolutely not for Hoke.... he did little more than RL has done which most everyone here is not satisfied with. I'd rather keep RL on board than have Hoke back. Sorry, but that's my opinion. (Phil, I know you didn't say a word about Hoke. I am just responding to others who did.) WOW. That has got to be one of the dumbest "opinions" I have ever heard on here. You honestly have some serious issues if you think that. Hoke did absolute wonders for this team. Rocky took that and then set us back to the Chuck long years. I understand people have opinions and they vary, but you saying Hoke didn't do much more than Rocky is not an opinion when it is that far off the mark. So, don't use the "well that is just my opinion" statement to try to validate what you said. I can say "I think the world is flat, and that is my opinion" So, it must not be wrong since I signed it with a "That is my opinion". LOL, It is fact that Hoke did much more than Rocky. It is not up for discussion. You stating what you said means either you know very little about football, or you are still butt hurt that Hoke left, so the only way you can sleep at night to write off any good that he has done for our school. Plenty of people have that disease, so I am pretty sure that is it, because I can't see someone being so stupid to think that Hoke just a little more than Rocky. Good one lol "It's not up for discussion." LOL You just did discuss it. I think your opinion is dumb. Hoke never beat anyone of note. That's my opinion. This football program would be exactly in the same place as it is now if Hoke had not left. That's my opinion. And I think you know very little about football and you have some disease too... That's my opinion. You folks and your know it all attitudes make me laugh. All of your vitriol just because you don't agree with some statement on a message board. LOL. Good one.
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