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Post by aztech on Aug 26, 2015 13:27:38 GMT -8
Rocky is our current coach at this urgent time so I don't understand why the history of his predecessors are meaningful. I commend him for getting teams being bowl eligible despite the quality of competition. However his bowl record @ UNM is 1-4, here 1-3. There's a pattern so of course some fans have questions. So the bottom line is either his bowl teams weren't as good as fans thought or he's a below average bowl game coach. Which is it? reading through this thread I find it interesting to see some fans celebrate the fact that SDSU has been to bowl games consistently throughout RL's tenure as HC when compared to the previous 20+ years of Aztecs football ... while others instead deflect from that accomplishment by pointing out how RL's total bowl record makes that meaningless. There is an urgency to make a splash today as opposed to the 20th century. Fans who follow college football saw this separation coming when the BCS era began. So winning meaningful OOC games and bowls are very important today. We need the recognition. If you're satisfied with just MWC level play, then no discussion.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2015 13:36:27 GMT -8
reading through this thread I find it interesting to see some fans celebrate the fact that SDSU has been to bowl games consistently throughout RL's tenure as HC when compared to the previous 20+ years of Aztecs football ... while others instead deflect from that accomplishment by pointing out how RL's total bowl record makes that meaningless. There is an urgency to make a splash today as opposed to the 20th century. Fans who follow college football saw this separation coming when the BCS era began. So winning meaningful OOC games and bowls are very important today. We need the recognition. If you're satisfied with just MWC level play, then no discussion. The bit about being satisfied at the end is probably the most used straw-man by those trying to drown out any semblance of positivity toward the current program. Strangely(sarcasm) I don't recall reading about how everyone is satisfied already.
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Post by HighNTight on Aug 26, 2015 13:37:05 GMT -8
reading through this thread I find it interesting to see some fans celebrate the fact that SDSU has been to bowl games consistently throughout RL's tenure as HC when compared to the previous 20+ years of Aztecs football ... while others instead deflect from that accomplishment by pointing out how RL's total bowl record makes that meaningless. There is an urgency to make a splash today as opposed to the 20th century. Fans who follow college football saw this separation coming when the BCS era began. So winning meaningful OOC games and bowls are very important today. We need the recognition. If you're satisfied with just MWC level play, then no discussion. This is what I don't get about some of you "Nega'Tecs" ... Why can't we appreciate the current success of the program (especially when compared to where we came from) AND keep improving? Why is it with you that appreciating where we are now is somehow being "satisfied" and not wanting to continue to improve? I am sure happy that cooler heads prevailed a decade ago when people not unlike yourself had thought that Steve Fisher and the basketball program had "plateaued" and were calling for a change ... instead Fisher remained and was allowed to keep improving the program, getting us to where we are today in basketball. Of course the opposite occurred with Claude Gilbert, where he was let go -- and we know what happened with the football program ...
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Post by sdcoug on Aug 26, 2015 14:26:49 GMT -8
haha ... I see what you did there, but it will probably fly right over the heads of too many so how about we just compare the Aztecs bowl game records of the current and previous head coaches -- and for some extra flavor we can include the number of years they were head coach vs the number of bowl games they went to as well?? Rocky is our current coach at this urgent time so I don't understand why the history of his predecessors are meaningful. I commend him for getting teams being bowl eligible despite the quality of competition. However his bowl record @ UNM is 1-4, here 1-3. There's a pattern so of course some fans have questions. So the bottom line is either his bowl teams weren't as good as fans thought or he's a below average bowl game coach. Which is it? Or the matchups weren't favorable or fans ignored the fact the opponents were just as good if not better at times.
Rocky's teams were the underdog in 4 of the 9 bowl games he's coached, including being a 9-point dog to UCLA. Of those 4 games he's 2-2. The downside is when favored he's 0-5, but in only 1 game (Louis-Lay) were his teams favored by more than a FG & that spread was only 6. It's not like anyone thought his teams were that much better than their opposition. As noted, a made FG from close range & we win that game last year. People forget we were only favored by 1 by most betting sites, so it's not like Navy was bad). A great bowl record? No, definitely not, and room for improvement. But he didn't play patsies in those games either.
On the flipside, Rocky's the ONLY coach in New Mexico HISTORY to take a team to 3 straight bowl games and the only coach to win one in the past 50+ years. That is an accomplishment by any stretch.
And how many teams in the country are riding 5 straight years in bowl games, 4 of which under his watch? 12 by my count (Florida St, Va-tech, G-tech, Georgia, Ok, LSU, BSU, Wisky, Bama, Oregon & BYU) have played in 5 straight. 12 out of 120+ teams. I don't care HOW watered down the bowl system is or which conference teams play in, it's watered down for EVERYONE. They still have to compete in their respective conferences yet others even in our conference haven't accomplished this!. Not Fresno, SJSU or anyone else in our conference other than BSU. P12 teams can go 3-6 in conference & still be 1 of 7+ bowl teams from their conference alone.
Why people can't enjoy the fact SDSU football is doing well and hope we can improve even further is beyond me. I get skeptics, especially heading into any season. What I don't get are defeatists, who are heading into the season expecting the worst when most of the results have been very positive.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2015 14:50:00 GMT -8
When you consider 2 field goals were the difference between a 3-1 and 1-3 bowl record during the RL era at SDSU I think getting extremely worked up over the topic is moot at this point. Step one was to get in bowls, check. Step two would be get to bowls consistently, check. Step 3 (the we need to make now), win bowls consistently. And the final step 4, make SDSU a perennial upper tier(NY6 or otherwise) bowl team.
If we can clear step 3 and make it to 4 then I think SDSU will really see it's fortunes rise. Until RL program turns the corner in this area at least some criticism is warranted.
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Post by aztech on Aug 26, 2015 17:20:45 GMT -8
There is an urgency to make a splash today as opposed to the 20th century. Fans who follow college football saw this separation coming when the BCS era began. So winning meaningful OOC games and bowls are very important today. We need the recognition. If you're satisfied with just MWC level play, then no discussion. This is what I don't get about some of you "Nega'Tecs" ... Why can't we appreciate the current success of the program (especially when compared to where we came from) AND keep improving? Why is it with you that appreciating where we are now is somehow being "satisfied" and not wanting to continue to improve? I am sure happy that cooler heads prevailed a decade ago when people not unlike yourself had thought that Steve Fisher and the basketball program had "plateaued" and were calling for a change ... instead Fisher remained and was allowed to keep improving the program, getting us to where we are today in basketball. Of course the opposite occurred with Claude Gilbert, where he was let go -- and we know what happened with the football program ... Look, we're exclusively talking about Rocky here. Why is it guys like you always revert to history lessons or comparing him to someone else to deflect from what we're discussing? I thought I made it clear in my other posts that it's pretty much immaterial today. I've already commended him, right? I only listed what has happened, not what is going to happen. So instead of getting defensive or butthurt let's see what he does in this, his 5th year.
FYI I'm pretty confident about what we're going to do in the goat conference, but it doesn't end there. I hope he beats Penn St or Cal like everyone else does. Same goes for the next bowl game. Is that asking too much?
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Post by Montezumas Revenge 88 on Aug 26, 2015 17:42:25 GMT -8
Too many people on this board are what appears to be stuck in the past. Only way for us to be successful is to look ahead to the future and try to improve what we currently have. Bitching and complaining about what someone could or should have done years ago is not going to improve anything. I once had a high school teacher say "Coulda, woulda, shoulda, Ain't gonna happen," and thats the only reasonable position any of us should be taking towards football. Whats done is done, the past is gone for good and we only have the future to look forward to. Stoked for this years football season!
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Post by HighNTight on Aug 26, 2015 18:20:02 GMT -8
This is what I don't get about some of you "Nega'Tecs" ... Why can't we appreciate the current success of the program (especially when compared to where we came from) AND keep improving? Why is it with you that appreciating where we are now is somehow being "satisfied" and not wanting to continue to improve? I am sure happy that cooler heads prevailed a decade ago when people not unlike yourself had thought that Steve Fisher and the basketball program had "plateaued" and were calling for a change ... instead Fisher remained and was allowed to keep improving the program, getting us to where we are today in basketball. Of course the opposite occurred with Claude Gilbert, where he was let go -- and we know what happened with the football program ... Look, we're exclusively talking about Rocky here. Why is it guys like you always revert to history lessons or comparing him to someone else to deflect from what we're discussing? I thought I made it clear in my other posts that it's pretty much immaterial today. I've already commended him, right? I only listed what has happened, not what is going to happen. So instead of getting defensive or butthurt let's see what he does in this, his 5th year.
FYI I'm pretty confident about what we're going to do in the goat conference, but it doesn't end there. I hope he beats Penn St or Cal like everyone else does. Same goes for the next bowl game. Is that asking too much? Nobody here is getting "defensive or butthurt" (unless you are) ... "we're" not talking about RL, you are trying to make it about him -- "we" are talking about the program, of which RL is a part of ... "we" are enjoying the success and look forward to continued and sustained improvement in the program -- you don't think RL can achieve more than he has, I think he can. I can admit that we want the same things for the Aztecs Football Program, namely success, respect and promotion. In the same way that you only listed what has happened, I have too -- context is everything, and the same facts can be grouped in different ways leading to separate outcomes. My intent was to appreciate what we have achieved and to enjoy the respect we've been getting from the Phil Steele types. As for the history lessons themselves; you gave one in bowl records, I gave one in decision making and others chimed in to give more context ... all of it should be acknowledged before taking the actions that will affect the future of the program -- can we agree on that much?
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Post by aztech on Aug 26, 2015 23:27:25 GMT -8
Look, we're exclusively talking about Rocky here. Why is it guys like you always revert to history lessons or comparing him to someone else to deflect from what we're discussing? I thought I made it clear in my other posts that it's pretty much immaterial today. I've already commended him, right? I only listed what has happened, not what is going to happen. So instead of getting defensive or butthurt let's see what he does in this, his 5th year.
FYI I'm pretty confident about what we're going to do in the goat conference, but it doesn't end there. I hope he beats Penn St or Cal like everyone else does. Same goes for the next bowl game. Is that asking too much? Nobody here is getting "defensive or butthurt" (unless you are) ... "we're" not talking about RL, you are trying to make it about him -- "we" are talking about the program, of which RL is a part of ... "we" are enjoying the success and look forward to continued and sustained improvement in the program -- you don't think RL can achieve more than he has, I think he can. I can admit that we want the same things for the Aztecs Football Program, namely success, respect and promotion. In the same way that you only listed what has happened, I have too -- context is everything, and the same facts can be grouped in different ways leading to separate outcomes. My intent was to appreciate what we have achieved and to enjoy the respect we've been getting from the Phil Steele types. As for the history lessons themselves; you gave one in bowl records, I gave one in decision making and others chimed in to give more context ... all of it should be acknowledged before taking the actions that will affect the future of the program -- can we agree on that much? As usual, you're talking in circles. I don't play that game. As for me, I'll just wait to see how the season pans out.
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