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Post by hoops on Apr 6, 2015 10:40:01 GMT -8
What a refreshingly decent conversation... (I miss such reasonable dialog here...) All good & valid points. But I still worry about protecting the ball. Trey Kell is still ill-suited to being a full-time PG (again, just "IMO"), and relying on a Frosh PG (even one as good as we all seem to think Hemsley will be) can be dangerous as well. Many times this past season, JJO was able to take a lot of pressure off AQ or Kell with his ability to bring the ball up the court and establish the offense. With Hemsley/Kell at PG, who does that next season? Shep? Pope? That's my main residual concern. Y'all have collectively "moved the needle" as far as reinforcing Tollefsen's potential role next season... and I didn't take too much convincing of that anyway. I just feel that a difference-maker at PG is a slightly higher priority than a stretch 4 scorer (as much as that would be a very welcome addition). But the transfer from Villanova is probably the only (or one of the very few) truly high-impact PGs out there (with immediate eligibility). What interests me isn't seeing this team be able to win an extra game or three in Dec, Jan, & Feb... it's making the Elite 8. And March tends to be defined by guard play, so that's a big part of my bias. At PG, I would guess that it's trial by fire for Zabo and Hemsley next year. If the fire is winning, then they will fall back to Kell as starting PG and a rehash of this year's point guard by committee script. But, they've seen a ton of Hemsley by now. Perhaps . . . recruiting MT is an indication of their level of confidence in Hemsley. Or perhaps that's just wishful thinking.
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Post by AztecBill on Apr 6, 2015 11:26:56 GMT -8
What a refreshingly decent conversation... (I miss such reasonable dialog here...) All good & valid points. But I still worry about protecting the ball. Trey Kell is still ill-suited to being a full-time PG (again, just "IMO"), and relying on a Frosh PG (even one as good as we all seem to think Hemsley will be) can be dangerous as well. Many times this past season, JJO was able to take a lot of pressure off AQ or Kell with his ability to bring the ball up the court and establish the offense. With Hemsley/Kell at PG, who does that next season? Shep? Pope? That's my main residual concern. Y'all have collectively "moved the needle" as far as reinforcing Tollefsen's potential role next season... and I didn't take too much convincing of that anyway. I just feel that a difference-maker at PG is a slightly higher priority than a stretch 4 scorer (as much as that would be a very welcome addition). But the transfer from Villanova is probably the only (or one of the very few) truly high-impact PGs out there (with immediate eligibility). What interests me isn't seeing this team be able to win an extra game or three in Dec, Jan, & Feb... it's making the Elite 8. And March tends to be defined by guard play, so that's a big part of my bias. At PG, I would guess that it's trial by fire for Zabo and Hemsley next year. If the fire is winning, then they will fall back to Kell as starting PG and a rehash of this year's point guard by committee script. But, they've seen a ton of Hemsley by now. Perhaps . . . recruiting MT is an indication of their level of confidence in Hemsley. Or perhaps that's just wishful thinking. Hemsley, Kell, and an outside shot for Williams unless Zabo makes huge strides on defense.
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Post by sdcoug on Apr 6, 2015 11:34:41 GMT -8
If WS and Malik both come back , would guess , if playing well, could be getting 25- 32 minutes a game . ZC was told to red shirt ,last season he could be a major part of the offense , this year and the next few, say 22+ minutes . But you are suggesting Mark start? DA if he returns what are you saying for him for PT or maybe transfer out, he is a major lock down defender ? Are you saying JH and TK ( who IMO would be better at his natural position SG, not a PG , especially in a 1 guard offense ) are the PG's . Also where do you see MS and BJ ? First it is important before we add any one, find out what WS and DA are going to do . Would guess we could know more by April 26. Would agree if both WS and DA are gone the coaches will need a forward .or maybe if only WS is gone . If you have a chance to make your team better you do it, and believe this kid steps right into the starting line-up & helps pick up the slack left by JJ. SS, MP, WS, Mark & either Kell/Hemsley is a formable starting line-up, and then you have MS, Kell/Hemsley, AC, ZC off the bench, and possibly Zabo. DA could beat out someone as well - that's on him to decide (sit while transferring or fight for a spot here). We don't know how much PT anyone deserves or gets until they decide it on the court. You don't just hand ZC minutes without proving anything, and it's possible he's being seen as a 3 more than a 4 (although like Bill said we play players not positions).
So the question comes down to whether you want to go young (e.g. ZC) with the hopes of developing talent or go with a kid who's proven it & is more experienced? If you're goal is to maximize next year, then I'd say add Mark. If you're thinking 2 years then it's a tougher call IMO but maybe you do the same thing next year? You only think 1 year in advance IMO - there are no guarantees ANYONE will be around in 2.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2015 11:38:10 GMT -8
Like MT's game, but we need a PG! Do we? I thought so too, but it appears our entire staff is in love with Jeremy Hemsley. He was just named LA Player of the year over Boatwright, Ball, Phleugger and more.
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Post by Fishn'Aztec on Apr 6, 2015 11:42:11 GMT -8
For some strange reason I anticipate that decent will become descend!
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Post by AztecBill on Apr 6, 2015 11:49:06 GMT -8
Like MT's game, but we need a PG! Do we? I thought so too, but it appears our entire staff is in love with Jeremy Hemsley. He was just named LA Player of the year over Boatwright, Ball, Phleugger and more. The reports I saw they called it the Southern California POY. Did they change the name or is that something different.
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Post by standiego on Apr 6, 2015 12:25:07 GMT -8
If you get the opportunity watch the replay his championship game . You will see he is a good PG Yes he will be a freshman but by the time we have reached the MW T . He could have played 30 games . Hopefully so will Zabo . who was a very good PG with his AAU team and in HS . Far superior to this years PG play - TK was brought in as a SG , it would help him and the team if he went back to his natural position and get back his shooting % , it was not good the last part of the season . Could be a reason why Fisher said we need a scorer , maybe let him just focus on scoring instead of also the duties of being PG .Also as the coaches have said this could be a very different offense hen we have had the last two years . There is no X or JJ . So hopfully a little more up tempo.
Forward positions . First have the coaches talk with WS and DA to see if they are coming back . If they do , would guess they deserve an opportunity to be in the mix for decent PT . If not then MT could be in the mix . Not sure what to always expect from guys coming from he WCC , a conference that other then the Zags seems to favor Offense over Defense . WS is very athletic , could be effective if he choses to come back and really attack the basket , plays D , rebounds and is a great passer in an offense that pushes it . Zags seem to always have size down low to help their D. MP is a very good offensive player but still learning the D so the other forward better help out.. Not always easy to learn the Aztec D . WS , MP, ZC , DA all have been involved in it . What is DA going to do ? Could depend on how many forwards are in the mix . He seems to have value as a guy that can score gig to the basket and the lock down defender , on a SG or SF , against, BSU , FSU , USU, UNLV ,NM ,Kansas , Utah ,........ Another unknown for the Aztecs ZC whose red shirt season could help him a lot . Also what to do with BJ ? But a lot depends on what WS and DA are going to do ten build from there.
Fisher played about 10 during OOC then it starts to get closer to 8 .
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Post by ignoranus on Apr 6, 2015 12:52:39 GMT -8
If ZC is MP's twin he'll get plenty of floor time.
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Post by johnnyutah on Apr 6, 2015 14:06:27 GMT -8
Looks like he was in town this weekend. Coach Velasquez follows him on twitter...seems like he is definitely in play.
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Post by standiego on Apr 6, 2015 14:25:47 GMT -8
Nolan Narain 6'10" PF/C , who has an offer from us or 2016 , was here for an official visit earlier in the year . May be looking , as posted by others , that he may be looking to reclassify to 2015 HS recruit. If so he should be our top priority for the last scholarship .Believe he was in Indy this weekend , since his HS is not far away.
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Post by hoobs on Apr 6, 2015 14:33:06 GMT -8
Nolan Narain 6'10" PF/C , who has an offer from us or 2016 , was here for an official visit earlier in the year . May be looking , as posted by others , that he may be looking to reclassify to 2015 HS recruit. If so he should be our top priority for the last scholarship .Believe he was in Indy this weekend , since his HS is not far away. I'd have a hard time justifying passing over Narain for a 1-year grad student transfer, even one as good as Tollefsen. Granted, we don't know if Narain will/would pick us, but for the long-term perspective of the program I'd rather have Narain.
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Post by sdcoug on Apr 6, 2015 14:43:33 GMT -8
Nolan Narain 6'10" PF/C , who has an offer from us or 2016 , was here for an official visit earlier in the year . May be looking , as posted by others , that he may be looking to reclassify to 2015 HS recruit. If so he should be our top priority for the last scholarship .Believe he was in Indy this weekend , since his HS is not far away. I'd have a hard time justifying passing over Narain for a 1-year grad student transfer, even one as good as Tollefsen. Granted, we don't know if Narain will/would pick us, but for the long-term perspective of the program I'd rather have Narain. You can always make room for better & greater talent. There wouldn't be any issue getting both if they're available. Would actually be the perfect scenario.
And agree - Nolan is and should remain a priority!
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Post by hoops on Apr 6, 2015 15:11:22 GMT -8
I'd have a hard time justifying passing over Narain for a 1-year grad student transfer, even one as good as Tollefsen. Granted, we don't know if Narain will/would pick us, but for the long-term perspective of the program I'd rather have Narain. You can always make room for better & greater talent. There wouldn't be any issue getting both if they're available. Would actually be the perfect scenario.
And agree - Nolan is and should remain a priority!
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Post by Ambivalent_Fan on Apr 6, 2015 16:41:10 GMT -8
I'd have a hard time justifying passing over Narain for a 1-year grad student transfer, even one as good as Tollefsen. Granted, we don't know if Narain will/would pick us, but for the long-term perspective of the program I'd rather have Narain. You can always make room for better & greater talent. There wouldn't be any issue getting both if they're available. Would actually be the perfect scenario.
And agree - Nolan is and should remain a priority!
How is this possible? There are still a finite amount of scholarships available.
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Post by sdcoug on Apr 6, 2015 17:23:30 GMT -8
You can always make room for better & greater talent. There wouldn't be any issue getting both if they're available. Would actually be the perfect scenario.
And agree - Nolan is and should remain a priority!
How is this possible? There are still a finite amount of scholarships available. Standard end of the year conversations with the kids. You simply are straight to the point & honest - "we don't see you getting playing time here....." Ideally, you rarely want to "pull" the scholarship & let the kid to decide to transfer but you can gently give them a push & say it's in their best interests. You can even help them find a landing place. Believe all our scholarships are still 1-year renewable - we haven't yet moved to fully guaranteed 4-year deals.
I've seen several scholarships suddenly come available in late April/early May... Happens all the time.
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Post by Gundo on Apr 6, 2015 18:47:33 GMT -8
How is this possible? There are still a finite amount of scholarships available. Standard end of the year conversations with the kids. You simply are straight to the point & honest - "we don't see you getting playing time here....." Ideally, you rarely want to "pull" the scholarship & let the kid to decide to transfer but you can gently give them a push & say it's in their best interests. You can even help them find a landing place. Believe all our scholarships are still 1-year renewable - we haven't yet moved to fully guaranteed 4-year deals.
I've seen several scholarships suddenly come available in late April/early May... Happens all the time.
Scholarships are earned year by year.
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Post by Ambivalent_Fan on Apr 6, 2015 20:38:59 GMT -8
Standard end of the year conversations with the kids. You simply are straight to the point & honest - "we don't see you getting playing time here....." Ideally, you rarely want to "pull" the scholarship & let the kid to decide to transfer but you can gently give them a push & say it's in their best interests. You can even help them find a landing place. Believe all our scholarships are still 1-year renewable - we haven't yet moved to fully guaranteed 4-year deals.
I've seen several scholarships suddenly come available in late April/early May... Happens all the time.
Scholarships are earned year by year. I don't disagree about scholarships...per se What interests me is the talent evaluation process that is taking place DA / KZ / DW et al...were all highly rated kids coming out of high school...then they join the Aztec squad and somehow people/fans believe their talents are significantly diminished...maybe by the speed of the game...maybe because of faulty evaluations...the system that the Aztecs play...maybe because the kid's attitude and/or work ethic changes when they get to college...whatever the supposed reasons are in the eyes of our fans... So let's say that their scholarships are offered to other incoming freshmen or transfers... My first question is...who's to say those new players are actually any better than the players that you've just kicked to the curb...again...if your evaluations missed on your current players...who's to say that they won't misfire again... Now instead of having underclassmen who know the system and add some valuable talents to the team...you have another set of freshmen who again get unceremoniously asked to leave the program because they don't perform...and it turns into a vicious cycle... I often wonder why our best players aren't trying to go to other programs...Kentucky...Kansas...Duke (and don't tell me that we haven't had players in the past who could have played for better teams...because I don't believe that for a second). Kids come to and stay at SDSU because we have coaches that care about the kids and try to make them better team players...if they display the proper attitude and effort then the coaches will support the players who chose to come to SDSU in the first place...(it's a different situation if a kid gives up on the coaches and their teammates). This is what separates coach Fisher and company from the other coaches...and I know that if I had a son who was a marginal 4-star recruit...I'd want him to play for the Aztecs (if I had a 5-star one and done...then maybe I'd be singing a different tune) ------ I've seen exact same thing happen with companies big and small... They hire a bunch of people who are highly recruited and that management thinks will be superstar employees...the company spends money and other resources hiring and training these people...after 4-6 months those people aren't making their quota so the company cuts them loose...and immediately starts looking for replacements... Ultimately the company finds that some of their hires do make it...but since there is little or no loyalty shown by management...once those better people get another offer from somewhere else...they are gone like wind... Pretty soon the company gets a bad reputation among its employees, competitors, and customers...that there is no consistency and morale is low...the person that used to be there is gone...already replaced with a new (sometimes better...sometimes worse) person...pretty soon, the once good company, begins a spiral down as people who can leave, do...and those who can't leave put in a halfhearted effort knowing that they will soon be let go...that soon defines the company's culture... It certainly wouldn't be the company I own (or would want to work for if I was an employee)...
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Post by sdcoug on Apr 6, 2015 23:18:06 GMT -8
Scholarships are earned year by year. I don't disagree about scholarships...per se What interests me is the talent evaluation process that is taking place DA / KZ / DW et al...were all highly rated kids coming out of high school...then they join the Aztec squad and somehow people/fans believe their talents are significantly diminished...maybe by the speed of the game...maybe because of faulty evaluations...the system that the Aztecs play...maybe because the kid's attitude and/or work ethic changes when they get to college...whatever the supposed reasons are in the eyes of our fans... So let's say that their scholarships are offered to other incoming freshmen or transfers... My first question is...who's to say those new players are actually any better than the players that you've just kicked to the curb...again...if your evaluations missed on your current players...who's to say that they won't misfire again... Now instead of having underclassmen who know the system and add some valuable talents to the team...you have another set of freshmen who again get unceremoniously asked to leave the program because they don't perform...and it turns into a vicious cycle... I often wonder why our best players aren't trying to go to other programs...Kentucky...Kansas...Duke (and don't tell me that we haven't had players in the past who could have played for better teams...because I don't believe that for a second). Kids come to and stay at SDSU because we have coaches that care about the kids and try to make them better team players...if they display the proper attitude and effort then the coaches will support the players who chose to come to SDSU in the first place...(it's a different situation if a kid gives up on the coaches and their teammates). This is what separates coach Fisher and company from the other coaches...and I know that if I had a son who was a marginal 4-star recruit...I'd want him to play for the Aztecs (if I had a 5-star one and done...then maybe I'd be singing a different tune) ------ I've seen exact same thing happen with companies big and small... They hire a bunch of people who are highly recruited and that management thinks will be superstar employees...the company spends money and other resources hiring and training these people...after 4-6 months those people aren't making their quota so the company cuts them loose...and immediately starts looking for replacements... Ultimately the company finds that some of their hires do make it...but since there is little or no loyalty shown by management...once those better people get another offer from somewhere else...they are gone like wind... Pretty soon the company gets a bad reputation among its employees, competitors, and customers...that there is no consistency and morale is low...the person that used to be there is gone...already replaced with a new (sometimes better...sometimes worse) person...pretty soon, the once good company, begins a spiral down as people who can leave, do...and those who can't leave put in a halfhearted effort knowing that they will soon be let go...that soon defines the company's culture... It certainly wouldn't be the company I own (or would want to work for if I was an employee)... First, not passing judgment on any players. That's the coaches job, with where players are in the hierarchy coming to fruition via playing time.
Part of coaching and caring about the kids and supporting them is being honest with them, and if you have a player who you firmly believe will not see significant playing time in the next few years it's your job to be honest with them. Yes, it's very common that coaches "miss" on players as not all adapt to the college the same way. Also, keep in mind I'm not saying any player who didn't play much as a FR or SO couldn't BECOME a good player who earns PT, but there are often players who you just know weren't quite what you anticipated while seeing them play against a VERY different level of competition. Coaches miss.
Plus, let's not pretend players are completely loyal either. The amount of players who transfer has never been higher and often it's not because they've "given up on the coaches" it's because the reality of their situation hits them. Like Wesley at USC, if he wanted to win he had to transfer. Or players realize if they want to start they must transfer. It's possible we may end up with 2 or even 3 open scholarships without wanting ANYONE to leave simply because playing time and/or being THE guy eventually is important to them.
Players come to SDSU to WIN first & foremost, and as a coach if you have a chance to upgrade your roster by landing a transfer who's already proven himself AND a post player who you believe MAY be a key player down the road (especially knowing you'll lose 2 posts next year) it's in the best interest of everyone to add those players to your roster. We're not talking about churning a bunch of players. We're talking about having an honest conversation with a kid who will most likely be your 12th or 13th man next year. It's in HIS best interest to be honest with him. It's also in the best interests of those players who will be leading this team & having the opportunity to take us to the next level to field the best team possible.
In the real business world if I have an employee who's new to the industry who I don't see as a right fit for the industry, I think I'm doing them a favor encouraging them to look into a different field. That's not being a bad employer, just an honest one. Is that guy better off struggling in his career or searching another one he may excel in?
Again, not saying you force anyone out the door & yank a scholarship (although many coaches will), but instead being honest & truthful. IF there is a player who may not see the floor much in the next couple years then, and if PT is important to him, he now has that information & can decide what's best for him.
The college game is competitive - if you having a growing program it's VERY likely the kids you recruited last year are better than those you recruited 2-3 years ago. How many FR do you see starting over So's, Jr's or even Sr's. So it's very possible last years FR may get passed over, and someone you recruited this year is passed over next year. Does that mean you don't care about last year's recruits? No. It's just the reality of the game. And yes, it's very possible we miss on both these players as well (although with one you have a lot of film against this level of competition for comparison).
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Post by Ambivalent_Fan on Apr 7, 2015 6:41:27 GMT -8
That is a great answer (no sarcasm)...and I agree with you 100%
You struck upon two words...honesty and trust
Yes...the coaches need to be honest with the player...this builds mutual trust...
If a player and the coaches trust each other...then the player will work hard for the team and the coaches will do what they can to help the young man achieve his personal goals...
On a rare occasion, those goals are mutually exclusive so a player may venture off to find another program in which to pursue their dreams and goals (Alex Williams, and Labradford Franklin come to mind), where there is a square peg in a round hole...
I contend however that if a player is recruited and does the work and does what the coaches tell him to do...then it's his scholarship...even if he is destined to be the 14th man on the bench...it's up to the player to decide whether or not he is better off somewhere else (maybe they stay because they want to be a part of a winning program or because SDSU offers a chance at a great education)
Again...good post
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Post by hoobs on Apr 7, 2015 6:44:07 GMT -8
Good discussion. I do wonder if there will be a transfer out of the program this spring. There are probably only 3 logical candidates and to be honest I hope all 3 stay. But ya never know.
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