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Post by jiggy on Mar 7, 2015 8:11:28 GMT -8
It is with a certain amount of trepidation that I recommend that you take a look at tomorrow's opinion page of the UT. No doubt a variety of reactions will be forthcoming. AzWm Canepas article = Slow news day. Or were you referring to "SDSU seniors hit the mother lode"
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Post by aztecbo on Mar 7, 2015 8:16:49 GMT -8
I enjoyed the article which reflects my feeling on the subject very well. Thanks for taking the time for writing it and for the passion you've put into the processl.
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Post by laaztec on Mar 7, 2015 8:20:32 GMT -8
Nice Work. Agree with all points.
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Mar 7, 2015 8:35:11 GMT -8
It's funny how the transplant Chargers haters try to paint the Spanos Family as these evil capitalist who are out to get richer by screwing the public out of their money, but suggest using state money to expand a University while student loan debt is at an all-time high. Sure the Spanos are only concerned about making their business more profitable (as they should be), but let's not act like SDSU would use this "West Campus" to provide free education. They're goal is to make money just like the Chargers. So if you're going to villianize the Spanos for trying to grow their family empire, then do the same to all the state politicians, banks, creditors, loaners, and everyone else who would benefit from a University expansion project. Personally, I was really surprised by the anti-Chargers feelings of so many on this board, but then I found out how many of them weren't from San Diego and it all made sense. For those of us who grew up in San Diego - especially those of us who grew up during the AIR CORYELL years - losing the Chargers would feel like losing an arm. We all want good things for SDSU, but for many of us we don't want it to be at the expense of the native San Diegans who love the Chargers.
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Post by csfoster on Mar 7, 2015 8:52:19 GMT -8
It's funny how the transplant Chargers haters try to paint the Spanos Family as these evil capitalist who are out to get richer by screwing the public out of their money, but suggest using state money to expand a University while student loan debt is at an all-time high. Sure the Spanos are only concerned about making their business more profitable (as they should be), but let's not act like SDSU would use this "West Campus" to provide free education. They're goal is to make money just like the Chargers. So if you're going to villianize the Spanos for trying to grow their family empire, then do the same to all the state politicians, banks, creditors, loaners, and everyone else who would benefit from a University expansion project. Personally, I was really surprised by the anti-Chargers feelings of so many on this board, but then I found out how many of them weren't from San Diego and it all made sense. For those of us who grew up in San Diego - especially those of us who grew up during the AIR CORYELL years - losing the Chargers would feel like losing an arm. We all want good things for SDSU, but for many of us we don't want it to be at the expense of the native San Diegans who love the Chargers. Post of the Day!
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Post by jiggy on Mar 7, 2015 9:04:36 GMT -8
Personally, I was really surprised by the anti-Chargers feelings of so many on this board, but then I found out how many of them weren't from San Diego and it all made sense. Anti- Chargers or anti-Spano's? Really not a fan of the family and their approach to doing business in San Diego. With respect to feeling Like you lost an arm if they left, would you feel any better if it cost you an arm and a leg if they stayed
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Mar 7, 2015 9:11:12 GMT -8
Personally, I was really surprised by the anti-Chargers feelings of so many on this board, but then I found out how many of them weren't from San Diego and it all made sense. Anti- Chargers or anti-Spano's? Really not a fan of the family and their approach to doing business in San Diego. With respect to feeling Like you lost an arm if they left, would you feel any better if it cost you an arm and a leg if they stayed Being in favor of getting rid of the Chargers because you don't like the Spanos family is more than a little like the old cliche of cutting off your nose to spite your face. The Spanos family will not own the Chargers forever. There were other owners before them, and there will be other owners after them. It's kind of like being anti-American as an American only because you don't like the current President. Change in the people in charge is inevitable. Wait it out and things will eventually go the way you want them to. The Spanos family will not be in charge forever. But if the Chargers leave we will NEVER get another NFL team and a huge percentage of San Diego's population will have lost something that means a whole lot to them. And those who dislike the Spanos family would never know what it is like to have a new owner for SAN DIEGO's NFL team because there wouldn't be a San Diego NFL team. It is amazingly short sighted to be against the Chargers staying in San Diego primarly because you don't like the Spanos family.
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Post by TheSanDiegan on Mar 7, 2015 9:13:56 GMT -8
It's funny how the transplant Chargers haters try to paint the Spanos Family as these evil capitalist who are out to get richer by screwing the public out of their money, but suggest using state money to expand a University while student loan debt is at an all-time high. Sure the Spanos are only concerned about making their business more profitable (as they should be), but let's not act like SDSU would use this "West Campus" to provide free education. They're goal is to make money just like the Chargers. So if you're going to villianize the Spanos for trying to grow their family empire, then do the same to all the state politicians, banks, creditors, loaners, and everyone else who would benefit from a University expansion project. 1. It is a state university, so using state money to fund further development is somewhat axiomatic, and has nothing to do with metadata pertaining to student loan debt - you really think the source of all student loan problems is the affrodable education one can receive in the CSU system? 2. No, it's not. Apples and enimas. I'm guessing SDSU and the Chargers have two entirely different mission statements.
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Post by standiego on Mar 7, 2015 9:15:42 GMT -8
Ask the Blood Bank , Monarch School , Cancer research , Shop with a Charger, Thanksgiving giveaway and the various organizations that have Chargers players Donate their time to help the community if they would miss the Chargers . Yes the Chargers are a business ( 1 of 32 in NFL ) who make money on their team . Again say the real villains are PAC and B12 who refuse to add SDSU as a member . That membership would fund the majority of the schools needs . The Chargers leaving would not . Also in the article reality check the only way the Aztecs may get new facility to help recruiting could be with the Chargers . What is more important to help recruiting , a state of the art facility not a cozy campus facility.
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Mar 7, 2015 9:26:02 GMT -8
Ask the Blood Bank , Monarch School , Cancer research , Shop with a Charger, Thanksgiving giveaway and the various organizations that have Chargers players donate their time to help the community if they would miss the Chargers . Yes the Chargers are a business ( 1 of 32 in NFL ) who make money on their team . Again say the real villains are PAC and B12 who refuse to add SDSU as a member . That membership would fund the majority of the schools needs . The Chargers leaving would not . Also in the article reality check the only way the Aztecs may get new facility to help recruiting could be with the Chargers . What is more important to help recruiting , a state of the art facility not a cozy campus facility. You left out what the Chargers did during the last firestorm that devastated San Diego. No Chargers? No help for the thousands of people who had to evacuate to the Q, and whom the Chargers fed on their own dime. Yeah, Spanos and the Chargers are such bad guys. Spanos may have faults, but the Chargers organization does a lot for the community - a lot of stuff that gets ignored here during this debate. And Hirshman confirmed what I've been saying - Chargers fans outnumber Aztec fans by at least 5 to 1. There are only 150,000 alumni in the City & County. Out of FOUR MILLION people. That's a small minority, and yet we're hearing SDSU alums act like it's their city and to hell with everyone else. That's not a good way to win over support from those who have never even stepped foot on campus (which is about 3,800,000 people in the City & County).
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Post by untitled on Mar 7, 2015 9:52:02 GMT -8
I'm not anti chargers. I'm anti giving them 900 million tax dollars for a luxury stadium Money-hole when there are so many bigger issues for the city to look at. They can go f x x x themselves for insisting the tax base carry the burden.
God bless and Good luck in carson!
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Mar 7, 2015 10:00:03 GMT -8
I'm not anti chargers. I'm anti giving them 900 million tax dollars for a luxury stadium Money-hole when there are so many bigger issues for the city to look at. They can go F X X X themselves for insisting the tax base carry the burden. God bless and Good luck in carson! If you want them to leave town then you are Anti-Chargers. No real San Diego Chargers fan wants them to leave town. And the tax money would be paid by tourists if anyone with half a brain put through a common sense deal.
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Post by vision on Mar 7, 2015 10:08:24 GMT -8
I'm not anti chargers. I'm anti giving them 900 million tax dollars for a luxury stadium Money-hole when there are so many bigger issues for the city to look at. They can go F X X X themselves for insisting the tax base carry the burden. God bless and Good luck in carson! If you want them to leave town then you are Anti-Chargers. No real San Diego Chargers fan wants them to leave town. And the tax money would be paid by tourists if anyone with half a brain put through a common sense deal. HOW much TAX money is LOST if the chargers leave??? If 25%-30% of the fans who go to the games are from LA, there must be some city revenue lost if they go to LA....NOT to mention that the SD fans that commute to Carson to see games in the future will be spending money out of town. I think many might be forgetting what we already make from the CHARGERS being in San Diego.
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Post by kozy on Mar 7, 2015 10:18:03 GMT -8
Since the stadium will be publicly funded, its time to elbow twist the city council and county board of supervisors to let SDSD get advertising fees, box seats fees, parking fees, food fees for Aztec or other college games played in the stadium, also portion of naming rights. Why should just the billionaires profit from public money.
Personally I like the West campus even more.
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Post by untitled on Mar 7, 2015 10:18:32 GMT -8
I'm not a chargers fan. Not anti chargers. I'm anti tax-funded stadiums. Especially 1.5 billion dollar ones with a private entity getting pouty because taxpayers realize paying 65% of it is bull$#!+. Tax funded stadiums have been proven time and again to be terrible investments. You have to be either blind or biased not to see that. 900 million could do so much good for everyone in the city, not just charger fanatics and Spanos' bottom line.
The taxpayers hold the cards. The chargers should be the side making concessions. For them to have twisted the dynamics so much in the minds of the public concerned about losing a 16 game/year distraction is just so disheartening.
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Post by fisherville on Mar 7, 2015 10:42:25 GMT -8
Yawn
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Mar 7, 2015 10:48:03 GMT -8
I'm not a chargers fan. Not anti chargers. I'm anti tax-funded stadiums. Especially 1.5 billion dollar ones with a private entity getting pouty because taxpayers realize paying 65% of it is bull$#!+. Tax funded stadiums have been proven time and again to be terrible investments. You have to be either blind or biased not to see that. 900 million could do so much good for everyone in the city, not just charger fanatics and Spanos' bottom line. Well, the Chargers will be in for $400 MILLION with the stadium deal ($200 Million up front, and a $200 Million loan from the NFL that they'll have to pay back). The city will benefit from the hundreds of construction jobs created by the project (which would last at least 18 months). That will create additional demand for construction workers, reducing unemployment and raising wages. The city will also benefit from the many events held at the stadium, and the national exposure (aka free advertising) that the Padres never get (remember that baseball is local TV, and the Padres almost never make the weekend ESPN broadcasts). Remember, San Diego competes with Los Angeles for tourists. We don't have a Disneyland or a Magic Mountain or a Knotts Berry Farm in San Diego (LegoLand doesn't count since the rides are aimed at 7 and 8 year olds and are boring as hell for teens and adults, and Sea World doesn't count, either, since it isn't a true amusement park based on thrill rides). Los Angeles ALWAYS looks more exciting than San Diego to tourists. We need as much help as we can get to take tourists away from L.A. A 16 game (17 or 18 in good years like last year) distraction (and year round subject of interest and discussion) IS good for hundreds of thousands of people in San Diego. It is a great stress release valve from their work or home issues. The fact that you don't understand that is truly disheartening. The Aztecs will never even come close to being to San Diego what the Chargers have been. It's lower level D1 football. Whoop-de-freaking-doo! Most people don't give a rip about G5 football. And, yes, the taxpayers may hold the cards, and if people like you influence the outcome then not only will we lose the Chargers, but we will also lose Comic-Con. San Diego will then be a city of losers incapable of keeping two of the institutions most closely associated with the city, and that will be our national image.
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Post by HighNTight on Mar 7, 2015 11:12:16 GMT -8
The work done by the previous stadium task force should be required reading for anyone wishing to post on the subject of what has taken so long CITIZENS’ TASK FORCE ON CHARGERS ISSUES (2003) www.sandiego.gov/chargersissues/pdf/finalreport.pdf(page 58 of the report) Task 1: The Chargers Financial Condition and Need for a New Stadium The Finance Committee was unable to evaluate the financial condition of the San Diego Chargers to determine whether the franchise requires a new stadium to remain financially viable. Early in the process, the Finance Committee made a comprehensive request of the Chargers for financial information. A critical component of this request was specific expense data that would have allowed for calculation of the net profit received by the Chargers, which the committee deemed pertinent to addressing the fundamental question of financial viability. The San Diego Chargers did provide some of the information requested by the Finance Committee. It was reported to the committee that the San Diego Chargers rank 26th out of 32 teams in the NFL in terms of revenue. However, the committee concluded that the NFL Quartile Reports including only revenue figures, without net income, were incomplete information. Several franchises that are listed in the first quartile rank high in terms of revenue. When the net income of these teams is factored in, including any existing debt owed by those franchises, the overall financial picture of those teams differs significantly. For example, the reported purchase cost for the first quartile team Washington Redskins was $800 million and the reported purchase cost for the first quartile team Houston Texans was $700 million, however, the debt these teams owe are not factored into quartile rankings. The rankings are based solely on revenue. After several requests for additional detail, the Chargers declined to provide net income information, and the committee received a letter from the NFL stating that the specific expense data requested was confidential and would not be provided. The committee attempted to establish a process whereby the committee could review the team’s financial data in a manner that would protect the proprietary concerns raised by the team and NFL. That offer was also declined. As a result, the material provided was found by the Finance Committee to be incomplete in addressing the fundamental question of financial viability. This resulted in the Finance Committee’s inability to determine whether the San Diego Chargers require a new football stadium to remain financially viable due to lack of information provided by the team and NFL. (Appendix L contains letters regarding financial data requests.) More INFO on previous work done: www.sandiego.gov/chargersissues/documents/index.shtml#historical
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Post by AztecWilliam on Mar 7, 2015 11:18:48 GMT -8
I'm not a chargers fan. Not anti chargers. I'm anti tax-funded stadiums. Especially 1.5 billion dollar ones with a private entity getting pouty because taxpayers realize paying 65% of it is bull$#!+. Tax funded stadiums have been proven time and again to be terrible investments. You have to be either blind or biased not to see that. 900 million could do so much good for everyone in the city, not just charger fanatics and Spanos' bottom line. The taxpayers hold the cards. The chargers should be the side making concessions. For them to have twisted the dynamics so much in the minds of the public concerned about losing a 16 game/year distraction is just so disheartening.
Well said; I was going to post essentially the same thing.
This is not an issue of being against the Sapnoses per se. The question is whether the taxpayer should help fund a new venue for their business. For those of us who are Aztec fans, there is the added question of how building a new stadium would affect SDSU's football program. It would be nice if there could be some sort of compromise. Furthermore, it would be nice if such a compromise could be fashioned in such a way as to allow a new West Campus to be built on the Mission Valley site as well as a new stadium.
If we envision a 45,000 seat stadium co-existing with new campus facilities, why couldn't the Chargers do the same (though with a somewhat larger stadium)? If a new Aztec stadium is built, parking structures will have to be built anyway.
The key issue in such a plan is probably the size of the stadium. If the Chargers insist on a seating capacity of 75,000 or more, there might be no way to build that and campus facilities as well (I'm thinking here of the extra parking facilities needed for a very large stadium as opposed to the one we have been thinking of for the Aztecs). But what if the Chargers could live with a stadium seating 55,000? Furthermore, SDSU would have to be guaranteed at least a small cut of the ancillary revenue streams (parking, food, etc.). A new stadium of 55,000 would be a bit larger than what we have been discussing, but it would be better than one seating 70K or more. And, of course, it would be new and no doubt much nicer than Qualcomm. Could the Chargers live with 55,000 seats? Especially if luxury boxes were a feature of the stadium? What if the only alternative were no new stadium at all? If I want to eat three tacos for lunch but only two are available, am I going to stick up my nose at the two tacos and go hungry? Well, I could go up the road and find a taco stand that is not running out of tortillas and ground beef (i.e., move to LA), but maybe settling for two tacos is the batter decision.
I suppose I am talking pie-in-the-sky here. The Chargers would probably want a bigger stadium. On the other hand, this will not be a Charger owned stadium, so why should they call all the shots?
We still don't know what the Chargers are going to do. I suppose that the Spanoses first choice would be to arouse enough local pro-Chargers sentiment to move the city or (worse yet) the county to build them a stadium on their terms. If it becomes clear that option #1 is unrealistic, moving to LA remains a real possibility.
If I were given the opportunity to speak directly to Dean Spanos, here's what I would say. . . .
Mr. Spanos, I realize that business considerations demand that your Chargers play in a new. better stadium. But please do not ignore the needs of San Diego State football. Why not do the one thing that might well swing public support dramatically to your side? Agree to a stadium being built in Mission Valley in conjunction with an expansion of San Diego State University. You must surely know that SDSU has expanded about as much as it can in its current location. Why not sit down with Dr. Hirshman and see if there isn't some way that the needs of both the Chargers and San Diego State could be met in the context of a join venture in Mission Valley? Wouldn't this be a win-win situation? In any case, surely it would not hurt to make that short trip from Mission Valley to Monetzuman Mesa to talk it over.
AzWm
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Post by FULL_MONTY on Mar 7, 2015 11:19:54 GMT -8
Ask the Blood Bank , Monarch School , Cancer research , Shop with a Charger, Thanksgiving giveaway and the various organizations that have Chargers players Donate their time to help the community if they would miss the Chargers . Yes the Chargers are a business ( 1 of 32 in NFL ) who make money on their team . Again say the real villains are PAC and B12 who refuse to add SDSU as a member . That membership would fund the majority of the schools needs . The Chargers leaving would not . Also in the article reality check the only way the Aztecs may get new facility to help recruiting could be with the Chargers . What is more important to help recruiting , a state of the art facility not a cozy campus facility. Blood bank Monarch School Shop with a Charger Do you have any idea how much the Pesby's, Price, Jacob, Manchester, Burnham, Shiley, Goodall, KITB, QCOMM, Kroc foundation, Moores, Copley, thee tribes? Let me break this down, www.chargers.com/community/foundationThey have donated $4M over 14+ years. $285K per year. AKA, it is a very small piece of the charitable world. There are lots of reasons to want the Chargers to stay, one being civic pride and overall community vibe, but it certainly isn't for their chartable giving. In fact, it is the lack of community involvement and giving that keeps the wrapper of carpet bagger on the Spanos Clan, imo.
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