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Post by matteosandiego on Sept 30, 2014 11:38:31 GMT -8
How exactly is it impressive when every year the QB does not improve? i was coming from strictly the standpoint of the backups always being coached up and ready to step in. And they have. They've always come in and have not missed a beat, usually have done better than the preceding starter. In the case of Dingwell, he didnt get better in his returning year, i believe because of his injury and new offensive coordinator Toledo. As for Kaehler, also the off season surgery and new receivers made it very very difficult. it was definitely a big challenge. So yeah, i'd say in the crunch, the job has been pretty impressive.
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Post by aztecwin on Sept 30, 2014 11:39:07 GMT -8
This kind of thread is perplexing. We seem to be getting much better on the O-Line and have a couple pretty good QB right now. I thing Rocky is doing things the right way.
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Post by cmonaztecs on Sept 30, 2014 12:18:02 GMT -8
We haven't had an NFL caliber QB/Receiver combo since Lindley/V.Brown in 2010. That's 4 years of bad luck, poor recruiting whatever you want to call it, but it points to the recruiting department. I've always looked up to Sipe, especially when he played for the Cleveland Browns. I never knew much about Rocky, but he's set records at NM as a player and a coach, so I'll chalk it up to bad luck. But if we don't get NFL caliber QB/Rcvr combo soon I'm commiting Hari- Kari.
Sent from my SM-T900 using proboards
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Post by standiego on Sept 30, 2014 13:24:23 GMT -8
Rocky should be judged on getting to MW championship games and then winning them , plus winning bowls games or beating a P5 school . OC the production/winning of games by the offense or at least not losing them - led by your QB , Q B coach the play of his QB's . Aztecs need to be able to recruit a quality QB , develop the QB and let him feel he is in charge of the offense on the field. Staff also needs to try to find OL that can get into the scheme early. Realize it may not be easy because we are not going to get the 4 and 5 star guys ,so the coaches have to really spot the guys that can develop quickly . But it seems Fresno, Nevada , BSU realize the importance of the QB have been doing it Credit Bawden for doing something a lot of the quality QB's do . Finish HS early so you can attend Spring Practice- start learning the playbook to be there and ready to go when called . Also important for a coaching staff to realize how many QB's go down so you better prepare #2 as if they are going to play every game , try to get them a few reps whenever possible .
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Post by HollywoodAztec on Sept 30, 2014 13:42:42 GMT -8
How exactly is it impressive when every year the QB does not improve? i was coming from strictly the standpoint of the backups always being coached up and ready to step in. And they have. They've always come in and have not missed a beat, usually have done better than the preceding starter. In the case of Dingwell, he didnt get better in his returning year, i believe because of his injury and new offensive coordinator Toledo. As for Kaehler, also the off season surgery and new receivers made it very very difficult. it was definitely a big challenge. So yeah, i'd say in the crunch, the job has been pretty impressive. Even more impressive when you consider the fact that they led us to consecutive bowl games. Let's hope the streak continues with Bawden.
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Post by monty on Sept 30, 2014 13:51:00 GMT -8
It would be an accomplishment if one of them actually got better after their first outing
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Post by matteosandiego on Sept 30, 2014 14:24:12 GMT -8
We haven't had an NFL caliber QB/Receiver combo since Lindley/V.Brown in 2010. That's 4 years of bad luck, poor recruiting whatever you want to call it, but it points to the recruiting department. I've always looked up to Sipe, especially when he played for the Cleveland Browns. I never knew much about Rocky, but he's set records at NM as a player and a coach, so I'll chalk it up to bad luck. But if we don't get NFL caliber QB/Rcvr combo soon I'm commiting Hari- Kari. Sent from my SM-T900 using proboards Lindley although with his shortcomings, was plenty durable and that really helped in those transition years into Hoke. Having said that, once Hoke left, we really were at a crossroads i would think with recruits. We lost out on Heyward and he came back to us on the bounce from USC. That should be very telling about our coaches. But as far as the offensive side of the ball, i could see how that might've threw a hurdle in our appeal when Hoke left.
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Post by HighNTight on Sept 30, 2014 14:45:51 GMT -8
We haven't had an NFL caliber QB/Receiver combo since Lindley/V.Brown in 2010. That's 4 years of bad luck, poor recruiting whatever you want to call it, but it points to the recruiting department. I've always looked up to Sipe, especially when he played for the Cleveland Browns. I never knew much about Rocky, but he's set records at NM as a player and a coach, so I'll chalk it up to bad luck. But if we don't get NFL caliber QB/Rcvr combo soon I'm commiting Hari- Kari. Sent from my SM-T900 using proboards Lindley although with his shortcomings, was plenty durable and that really helped in those transition years into Hoke. Having said that, once Hoke left, we really were at a crossroads i would think with recruits. We lost out on Heyward and he came back to us on the bounce from USC. That should be very telling about our coaches. But as far as the offensive side of the ball, i could see how that might've threw a hurdle in our appeal when Hoke left. Hoke leaving was one thing ... but it's the turnover at OC that has put a dent in recruiting. Sure they all run the pro-style offense, but when you don't have someone there for 2 consecutive years (they left for P5 jobs) you don't have any consistency. It's the OC that knows what he's looking for in a QB, and it takes a couple of years for the recruits one OC brings in to be field ready. For the first time in awhile we have the same OC for consecutive seasons and this will be reflected in the ability to execute the playbook and in recruiting.
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Post by matteosandiego on Sept 30, 2014 15:02:18 GMT -8
Lindley although with his shortcomings, was plenty durable and that really helped in those transition years into Hoke. Having said that, once Hoke left, we really were at a crossroads i would think with recruits. We lost out on Heyward and he came back to us on the bounce from USC. That should be very telling about our coaches. But as far as the offensive side of the ball, i could see how that might've threw a hurdle in our appeal when Hoke left. Hoke leaving was one thing ... but it's the turnover at OC that has put a dent in recruiting. Sure they all run the pro-style offense, but when you don't have someone there for 2 consecutive years (they left for P5 jobs) you don't have any consistency. It's the OC that knows what he's looking for in a QB, and it takes a couple of years for the recruits one OC brings in to be field ready. For the first time in awhile we have the same OC for consecutive seasons and this will be reflected in the ability to execute the playbook and in recruiting. Indeed!
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Post by tonatiuh on Sept 30, 2014 22:56:38 GMT -8
it is pretty amazing that our QB get's hurt so often. would that have anything to do with things like poor pass protection or being forced into taking risks scrambling for yardage when receivers aren't getting open? You might have a valid point there in some regard. Even a great offensive line does have breakdowns on occasion. They can't protect the QB 100% in every game. Sooner, or later some quick D-lineman, or LB, or blitzing CB makes a good move to corner him and get him down. Or, while scrambling out of the pocket he gets hit from a bad angle, and it may hinder his performance the rest of the game if it does not take him out. To me, it is not amazing that he gets hit so often. I am very surprised that many QB's can get up, and just shake it off after a big hit!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2014 10:24:48 GMT -8
We haven't had an NFL caliber QB/Receiver combo since Lindley/V.Brown in 2010. That's 4 years of bad luck, poor recruiting whatever you want to call it, but it points to the recruiting department. I've always looked up to Sipe, especially when he played for the Cleveland Browns. I never knew much about Rocky, but he's set records at NM as a player and a coach, so I'll chalk it up to bad luck. But if we don't get NFL caliber QB/Rcvr combo soon I'm commiting Hari- Kari. Agreed. Except maybe not with the Hari-Kari part.
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Post by aztecsiggy on Oct 1, 2014 11:06:10 GMT -8
would that have anything to do with things like poor pass protection or being forced into taking risks scrambling for yardage when receivers aren't getting open? You might have a valid point there in some regard. Even a great offensive line does have breakdowns on occasion. They can't protect the QB 100% in every game. Sooner, or later some quick D-lineman, or LB, or blitzing CB makes a good move to corner him and get him down. Or, while scrambling out of the pocket he gets hit from a bad angle, and it may hinder his performance the rest of the game if it does not take him out. To me, it is not amazing that he gets hit so often. I am very surprised that many QB's can get up, and just shake it off after a big hit! Coming soon to a grass field near you from Happy Valley to Cal Bezerkly to Mission Valley.... BAWDEN to HOLDER or JUDGE or CLARK
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Post by AztecBill on Oct 2, 2014 15:02:15 GMT -8
How exactly is it impressive when every year the QB does not improve? Every QB can improve but the position for the Aztecs won't necessarily improve, especially when starters keep getting hurt. That is luck. We could have had the same QB since Rocky got here. But we have what we have. To get the best QB recruits we need: 1. Continue winning 2. Have a QB drafted 3. Have a great OL 4. Have some great WR #1 has been happening but will get better. #2 could happen 3 drafts from now. #3 is in progress with a young OL and better recruits #4 is in progress with good young WR on board and should get better with better QB play and a better OL and #1 above.
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Post by AztecBill on Oct 2, 2014 15:07:21 GMT -8
How exactly is it impressive when every year the QB does not improve? Every QB can improve but the position for the Aztecs won't necessarily improve, especially when starters keep getting hurt. That is luck. We could have had the same QB since Rocky got here. But we have what we have. To get the best QB recruits we need: 1. Continue winning 2. Have a QB drafted 3. Have a great OL 4. Have some great WR #1 has been happening but will get better. #2 could happen 3 drafts from now. #3 is in progress with a young OL and better recruits #4 is in progress with good young WR (esp Mikah Holder) on board and should get better with better QB play and a better OL and #1 above.
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Post by HighNTight on Oct 2, 2014 15:23:56 GMT -8
You might have a valid point there in some regard. Even a great offensive line does have breakdowns on occasion. They can't protect the QB 100% in every game. Sooner, or later some quick D-lineman, or LB, or blitzing CB makes a good move to corner him and get him down. Or, while scrambling out of the pocket he gets hit from a bad angle, and it may hinder his performance the rest of the game if it does not take him out. To me, it is not amazing that he gets hit so often. I am very surprised that many QB's can get up, and just shake it off after a big hit! Coming soon to a grass field near you from Happy Valley to Cal Bezerkly to Mission Valley.... BAWDEN to HOLDER or JUDGE or CLARK unless Jake Rodrigues has something to say about it
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Post by standiego on Oct 2, 2014 15:38:00 GMT -8
we all know rarely is a G5 school going to get a 4 or 5 star QB from HS , unless there are special circumstances . So as noted you need to make sure your team stays in the competition for a MW championship , bowl game and has a reputation of a school that lets their QB be the focus of the offense . The QB , needs an effective OL that can protect him and guys in the other skill positions to make the offense roll . Also important that the QB improves every year . College football is not easy because it can take guys time to develop and soon they are leaving school. At G5 schools it is not easy but there has to be the mind set that we are going to be known as a school that QB's will flourish at ,so guys will want to come here . Nevada had the QB that is with the 49's and they have a good one now ,so it can happen.
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Post by aztech on Oct 2, 2014 16:18:06 GMT -8
would that have anything to do with things like poor pass protection or being forced into taking risks scrambling for yardage when receivers aren't getting open? You might have a valid point there in some regard. Even a great offensive line does have breakdowns on occasion. They can't protect the QB 100% in every game. Sooner, or later some quick D-lineman, or LB, or blitzing CB makes a good move to corner him and get him down. Or, while scrambling out of the pocket he gets hit from a bad angle, and it may hinder his performance the rest of the game if it does not take him out. To me, it is not amazing that he gets hit so often. I am very surprised that many QB's can get up, and just shake it off after a big hit! I'm curious to see if Toledo uses a full house backfield for blocking purposes or uses the TEs too. Supposedly Bawden makes quicker reads and has a quick release, plus he has scrambling ability. QK needed all that blocking because those were his shortcomings. It's going to be a real chess match.
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Post by Gundo on Oct 3, 2014 0:29:18 GMT -8
Kaehler is slow and makes bad decisions. Dingwell didn't have the intellectual capital. Katz broke an ankle but was the most athletic. I wouldn't blame the OL. Lets see how Bawden does and support him.
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Post by HighNTight on Oct 3, 2014 5:58:16 GMT -8
Kaehler is slow and makes bad decisions. Dingwell didn't have the intellectual capital. Katz broke an ankle but was the most athletic. I wouldn't blame the OL. Lets see how Bawden does and support him. I could very easily find reasons to "blame" the O-line ... there were so many line changes and position shuffling last year that kept unit cohesiveness from being established until late in the season. They have been better this year in matching or out-matching 3 out of 4 of our opponents so far -- Oregon St. was a reminder for them that there are more experienced defenses out there that match-up well with our O-line and they can't get complacent thinking they will dominate the LOS every game. I hope they have learned that the whole of the Pro-Style offense rests on their ability to control the line (without penalty).
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