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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2014 15:09:59 GMT -8
Not sure where this travel partner thing comes from. Seems dated to me. It may be on the list of things to consider but it would be pretty far down IMO. Markets, Marketing potential and TV eyeballs have to be the big 3. In that case, if I'm the emperor of the B12, I grab SDSU ( 3.5 Million Regional, 40 million state population) and UCF( 1.25million regional, 20 million state) in the 1st round of expansions followed possibly by BYU and going totally off the map for a second, San Jose State ( that's right, i said it!) . The thought of Texas and Oklahoma making trips semi-annually into southern and northern California is just too good IMO. UCF and SDSU instantly add regional populations that far exceed any of the current B12 teams not on the I35 corridor and expands the conference into the 1st and 4rd most populous states in the union and gives them a presence in the 3 biggest football player factories ( Texas, California and Florida). Fun Fact: San Diego County would be the 3rd largest state in the B12 were it to be added with about 400,000 fewer people the Oklahoma but more than Kansas, Iowa or West Virginia. Throughout the basketball season, opposing coaches have acknowledged how difficult it must be fore WVU to constantly visit the Midwest. Those opponents are eager to work with West Virginia in helping the league find a solution. "One of the things that was interesting coming away from the Athletic Directors' retreat that we had in January was that the Athletic Directors' were unanimous in prioritizing in assisting West Virginia," Bowlsby discussed. "They see it for the challenges it presents, yet they recognize that West Virginia is a great new member of the league and want to do everything they can to help." Certainly another way the league could help WVU is to add a conference member that is geographically more in the "neighborhood" of Morgantown. Iowa State is currently the closest member to West Virginia University and that is more than 800 miles away from Morgantown. "We have to be constantly vigilant and we are," Bowlsby stated. "Not withstanding the fact that it would be great to have a travel partner and geographic partner for West Virginia, we need to make sure we are making the right decisions on expansion." Bowlsby continues to stand his ground that the league is very comfortable where it is with 10 members. The ACC recently added Notre Dame, Pitt and Syracuse. The Big Ten got bigger with the additions of Rutgers and Maryland. But the Big 12 likes its configuration right now and does not plan to grow unless it will clearly help from both a financial and competitive standpoint. "We need to have expansion candidates that bring real value in excess of pro rata," Bowlsby stated. "We are distributing the largest amount of money to our members on a member by member basis of anybody in college athletics. I don't think we want to dilute that distribution by adding members that don't bring real value." Big 12 Commissioner Discusses WVU Travel, Expansion Posted: Mar 15, 2013 6:17 AM PDT He said exactly what he needed to say. It means nothing. Even if they were to consider a school in the vicinity of WVU, they would still have to travel to Texas and Oklahoma for their games because that's where the conference is. Adding Cincinnati doesn't change that. Out west, we mount up and ride. We don't bitch about travel cuz that's how we roll.
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Post by McQuervo on Sept 29, 2014 15:14:39 GMT -8
Forget ever getting into the Pac 12. UCLA (aka UGLY) won't ever allow it.
Big 12 is a better fit and yes I believe we will get in eventually.
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Post by rebar619 on Sept 29, 2014 15:27:19 GMT -8
Cincinnati doesn't even come close to measuring up in any of the quantifiable criteria he sets forth and only excels at his soft qualitative metrics: Football Brand value and Geographic "fit", which are utter horsecrap criteria. I looked at a map and I-35 doesn't go anywhere near Cincinnati but it does go through Austin, Waco, Dallas, Norman and Stillwater. Everywhere else is of equal geographic "fit" He also rates SDSU academics as a 0 when we are far from a zero and more or less equally ranked in the USNWR. I'm calling BS on this agenda driven piece of yellow "journalism". One of the things that gets left out of the conversation with regards to geographic fit is the fact that SD has an international airport. Travel time for the Aztecs to get to Laramie is longer than what it would take to get to Morgantown West Virginia. Its one thing if you travel by bus, but there is this new invention called the "airplane"...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2014 16:00:25 GMT -8
Cincinnati doesn't even come close to measuring up in any of the quantifiable criteria he sets forth and only excels at his soft qualitative metrics: Football Brand value and Geographic "fit", which are utter horsecrap criteria. I looked at a map and I-35 doesn't go anywhere near Cincinnati but it does go through Austin, Waco, Dallas, Norman and Stillwater. Everywhere else is of equal geographic "fit" He also rates SDSU academics as a 0 when we are far from a zero and more or less equally ranked in the USNWR. I'm calling BS on this agenda driven piece of yellow "journalism". One of the things that gets left out of the conversation with regards to geographic fit is the fact that SD has an international airport. Travel time for the Aztecs to get to Laramie is longer than what it would take to get to Morgantown West Virginia. Its one thing if you travel by bus, but there is this new invention called the "airplane"... I can just say this: I have spent and continue to spend considerable time in most of these locales in the course of my career and that includes WV but to be fair, Charleston and not Morgantown. None of these places can stack up to San Diego. PERIOD. We are a FAR better cultural fit when considering the Dallas/ Austin corridor + OKC than any of the other teams and locales mentioned. I-35 reminds me of the I-5 corridor here in So Cal in that it traverses what is essentially uninterrupted urban sprawl from San Antonio to North Dallas, same as the I5 traverses 175 miles of sprawl from the border to Santa Barbara here. Oklahoma City ( Norman) and Austin are forward looking, growth oriented YOUNG cities with a lot going for them. They are growing at an incredible rate Cincinnati is old, decaying, losing population and 30% of its population lives below the poverty line. West Virginia isn't a good B12 fit and I think if they had to do it all over again, they wouldn't get an invite so I don't see them doubling down on a bad decision. Here's some Census Links: Oklahoma CityAustinSan DiegoCincinnati
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2014 23:17:05 GMT -8
I think Pat Hill is right
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Post by Gundo on Sept 29, 2014 23:50:02 GMT -8
If The Big XII wants to open new markets for TV and recruiting the geography would look like this (pick 1 of 2 Florida schools)
* San Diego, CA - SDSU, * Cincinnati, OH - U of Cincy * Salt Lake City, UT- BYU * Miami, FL- USF * Orlando, FL - UCF
Florida gives WVU a east coast partner in the same way BYU and SDSU would be partners. 14 teams allows for a televised conference championship game! Plus SDSU, BYU, Cincy elevate Big XII basketball with 3 top 25 teams and more tournament money.
BTW I am not saying this is gonna happen.
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Post by myownwords on Sept 30, 2014 7:53:18 GMT -8
Pat Hill is saying the right things, just don't know that the "right" ears are listening to him.
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Post by Fishn'Aztec on Sept 30, 2014 8:19:14 GMT -8
Pat Hill is saying the right things, just don't know that the "right" ears are listening to him. Now you're getting it. I'm sure there are a lot of "deaf ears" in Westwood, Palo Alto, Pasadena, Seattle, Pullman and Berkeley!
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Post by HighNTight on Sept 30, 2014 8:37:42 GMT -8
If The Big XII wants to open new markets for TV and recruiting the geography would look like this (pick 1 of 2 Florida schools) * San Diego, CA - SDSU, * Cincinnati, OH - U of Cincy * Salt Lake City, UT- BYU * Miami, FL- USF * Orlando, FL - UCF Florida gives WVU a east coast partner in the same way BYU and SDSU would be partners. 14 teams allows for a televised conference championship game! Plus SDSU, BYU, Cincy elevate Big XII basketball with 3 top 25 teams and more tournament money. BTW I am not saying this is gonna happen. U of Utah is in SLC --- BYU is in Provo, UT 45 miles from SLC ... that is roughly the same distance CSU-San Marcos is San Diego (and for comparison: Logan, UT (USU) is 80 miles from SLC and UC-Irvine is 80 miles from San Diego). Not sure how this information fits with your analysis of Big XII expansion -- but it is a distinction when assessing a market.
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Post by AzTex on Sept 30, 2014 9:33:39 GMT -8
If The Big XII wants to open new markets for TV and recruiting the geography would look like this (pick 1 of 2 Florida schools) * San Diego, CA - SDSU, * Cincinnati, OH - U of Cincy * Salt Lake City, UT- BYU * Miami, FL- USF * Orlando, FL - UCF Florida gives WVU a east coast partner in the same way BYU and SDSU would be partners. 14 teams allows for a televised conference championship game! Plus SDSU, BYU, Cincy elevate Big XII basketball with 3 top 25 teams and more tournament money. BTW I am not saying this is gonna happen. USF is in Tampa, not Miami. As HighNTight said about BYU, this might not make a difference in your analysis.
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Post by SDSU-Alum2003 on Sept 30, 2014 18:13:00 GMT -8
Tell that to West Virginia, Utah & TCU. On the field performance doesn't have everything to do with it but it certainly is a big factor. If SDSU had accomplished what a Boise State had done over the last decade (performance wise) we would already be in a P5 conference. Utah who had a couple bcs seasons and a bunch of mediocre ones, if on field results mean everything than BYU would be in PAC 5 right now. Utah's fan support was far more important, academics didn't hurt either. I didn't say performance was everything; it is important. Everyone knows why BYU is not in a P5; if they were a non-secular school who played on Sundays they would be in the PAC or BIG XII already. The schools I mentioned performed well at the right time as well; timing is everything, right place right time, what have you done lately... What about TCU & WVU?
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Post by junior on Sept 30, 2014 18:22:13 GMT -8
Utah who had a couple bcs seasons and a bunch of mediocre ones, if on field results mean everything than BYU would be in PAC 5 right now. Utah's fan support was far more important, academics didn't hurt either. I didn't say performance was everything; it is important. Everyone knows why BYU is not in a P5; if they were a non-secular school who played on Sundays they would be in the PAC or BIG XII already. The schools I mentioned performed well at the right time as well; timing is everything, right place right time, what have you done lately... What about TCU & WVU? We missed our chance to travel with TCU. And West Virginia U? The home of front porch couches and throwing batteries at opposing teams and fans? LOL
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Post by csfoster on Oct 1, 2014 5:38:44 GMT -8
Forget ever getting into the Pac 12. UCLA (aka UGLY) won't ever allow it. Big 12 is a better fit and yes I believe we will get in eventually. Sorry to say, UCLA does not dictate to the Pac 12. Looking forward to the Pac 14/16 with SDSU included.
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Post by myownwords on Oct 1, 2014 5:42:48 GMT -8
Forget ever getting into the Pac 12. UCLA (aka UGLY) won't ever allow it. Big 12 is a better fit and yes I believe we will get in eventually. Sorry to say, UCLA does not dictate to the Pac 12. Looking forward to the Pac 14/16 with SDSU included. They may not dictate, but doesn't inclusion of a new team require unanimity by the members? I'm asking. I don't know.
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Post by McQuervo on Oct 1, 2014 5:52:30 GMT -8
Sorry to say, UCLA does not dictate to the Pac 12. Looking forward to the Pac 14/16 with SDSU included. They may not dictate, but doesn't inclusion of a new team require unanimity by the members? I'm asking. I don't know. In the Pac 12, yes it does. Sorry to say.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2014 6:49:30 GMT -8
If The Big XII wants to open new markets for TV and recruiting the geography would look like this (pick 1 of 2 Florida schools) * San Diego, CA - SDSU, * Cincinnati, OH - U of Cincy * Salt Lake City, UT- BYU * Miami, FL- USF * Orlando, FL - UCF Florida gives WVU a east coast partner in the same way BYU and SDSU would be partners. 14 teams allows for a televised conference championship game! Plus SDSU, BYU, Cincy elevate Big XII basketball with 3 top 25 teams and more tournament money. BTW I am not saying this is gonna happen. Good list but I fail to understand the attraction of Cincinnati. Think we have problems recruiting because of our proximity to UCLA and USC? Cincinnati has Louisville (ACC), Kentucky(SEC), Ohio State (B1G) and Indiana (B1G) within 100 miles of its campus. Pitt (ACC) is 200 miles away. Cinn had its day when it was a part of the BE along with regional rivals L-ville and Pitt but those days are over. They are the one school left behind in the region during all of the re-shuffle and there's a reason for that. The BCS is dead. The BE is dead. They are stuck, surrounded by P5 schools in a conference that has no auto bid, with a small local population from which to draw its fan base.
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Post by podpeople on Oct 1, 2014 10:21:29 GMT -8
Pat Hill is saying the right things, just don't know that the "right" ears are listening to him. Now you're getting it. I'm sure there are a lot of "deaf ears" in Westwood, Palo Alto, Pasadena, Seattle, Pullman and Berkeley! yeah, ever since I heard "Its still a big deal for them to play (BEAT) us." I could see the writing on the wall. There is no chance in hell they ever let us into the PAC. Those guys are too highbrow.
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