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Post by The Aztec Panther on Sept 7, 2014 20:28:09 GMT -8
Why would playing a couple extra away games for $$ (more than we would get from the MW) turn away fans? Because we keep losing those games? We keep, "Proving," that we aren't big time college football. (That's the way the locals look at it - I've talked to a lot of them, and they actually laugh when I say that going to Aztec games is fun.) Unless we're winning those games they're hurting the perception of this team locally.
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Post by AzTex on Sept 7, 2014 20:42:34 GMT -8
If Rutgers and Maryland can get into the Big 10 SDSU has a chance to get into a P5 conference. It's all or nothing. Get into a P5 conference or fold up the tents. Why fold up the tents? Maybe some people would like the Aztecs to continue to play. Agreed. I said it before. I'll be there to watch regardless of the level the Aztecs are competing at. I enjoyed the games when we were College Division as much or more than I enjoy the games today. I've been there in the best of times and the worst of times. Some kind of Aztec football is better than no Aztec football at all. Of course, like everyone here, I'd like to see us make the big time. But I'm not prepared to "fold up the tents" if we don't make it.
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Post by AztecWilliam on Sept 7, 2014 22:52:16 GMT -8
Of course. But is it worth it to completely turn off the locals that we so desperately need to fill up the seats at Qualcomm?? That's the question. I don't know why last night's game would turn off the locals. It was exciting. For much of the game the Aztecs played very well. I know why it would turn off many on this board. After all, each season some on here predict 12 - 0. Who knows why? They just do. Erik can speak for himself, but I'll give you my answer to that question. It's hard to know for sure which is worse, a genuine beatdown (42-7 for example) or an agonizing last second loss in a game that actually was winnable. I'm afraid the answer is that both hurt the program. The former because it makes us look grossly inferior to the elite conference schools. The latter hurts because it's happened so many times. The Aztecs come oh-so-close and then at the last minute fall on their faces. It really is Lucy and the football. We joke about the Curse of Montezuma (well, after last night, I'm starting to wonder whether it's really a joke!). But a lot of fans surely must be getting the feeling that SDSU is going to lose one way or another; either through gross inadequacy or by blowing golden opportunities again and again. There is nothing wrong with scheduling UCLA, Arizona St., Ohio State, Missouri, Michigan, North Carolina, etc. IF YOU WIN A REASONABLE NUMBER OF THOSE GAMES! In other words, at the very least let's say one third to one half of those games against power teams. So how have we done? Well, let's go back to 1980, the year I consider to be the start of our collapse. In the 34 years beginning in 1980, SDSU has played schools that were members of the P5 conferences the day the game was played a total of 79 times. We won exactly ELEVEN of those 79 games! ! ! Worse yet, our record in the past 14 seasons against such schools is a pathetic 1-27 ! ! ! That's ONE WIN AND TWENTY-SEVEN LOSSES! ! ! Obviously, there is something wrong with this picture. One tough game, Arizona, UCLA, etc. per season is the maximum we should schedule, and only those schools willing to do a home-and-home. It won't solve all our problems, but it would help. AzWm
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Post by HighNTight on Sept 7, 2014 23:28:22 GMT -8
I don't know why last night's game would turn off the locals. It was exciting. For much of the game the Aztecs played very well. I know why it would turn off many on this board. After all, each season some on here predict 12 - 0. Who knows why? They just do. Erik can speak for himself, but I'll give you my answer to that question. It's hard to know for sure which is worse, a genuine beatdown (42-7 for example) or an agonizing last second loss in a game that actually was winnable. I'm afraid the answer is that both hurt the program. The former because it makes us look grossly inferior to the elite conference schools. The latter hurts because it's happened so many times. The Aztecs come oh-so-close and then at the last minute fall on their faces. It really is Lucy and the football. We joke about the Curse of Montezuma (well, after last night, I'm starting to wonder whether it's really a joke!). But a lot of fans surely must be getting the feeling that SDSU is going to lose one way or another; either through gross inadequacy or by blowing golden opportunities again and again. There is nothing wrong with scheduling UCLA, Arizona St., Ohio State, Missouri, Michigan, North Carolina, etc. IF YOU WIN A REASONABLE NUMBER OF THOSE GAMES! In other words, at the very least let's say one third to one half of those games against power teams. So how have we done? Well, let's go back to 1980, the year I consider to be the start of our collapse. In the 34 years beginning in 1980, SDSU has played schools that were members of the P5 conferences the day the game was played a total of 79 times. We won exactly ELEVEN of those 79 games! ! ! Worse yet, our record in the past 14 seasons against such schools is a pathetic 1-27 ! ! ! That's ONE WIN AND TWENTY-SEVEN LOSSES! ! ! Obviously, there is something wrong with this picture. One tough game, Arizona, UCLA, etc. per season is the maximum we should schedule, and only those schools willing to do a home-and-home. It won't solve all our problems, but it would help. AzWm I am never amazed at how quickly the Aztec fanbase shifts to doom and gloom. Then they agonize over things that are already in motion, like future schedules regarding Penn St. and Cal in 2015, when we're just 2 games into 2014. Get your dang tails out from between your legs and act like you have a pair. We need to be at the top of our conference year in and year out -- doing so will get us more chances at high level competition at the P5 level (outside of the PAC) as SOS is now a consideration for the CFP.
We are pulling in stronger recruits and strong transfers. A game last night still puts SDSU on the map, some kid out there is thinking that all the Aztecs need are a kid like him to take them to the next level. Some player just marked San Diego St. on the list of schools he's interested in. We have a program headed in the right direction, and many more games against the P5s for the next 8 years -- if you can't handle it, you are free to get off the ride at any time. Turning 20+ years of crap into a winning tradition was always going to take at least a whole class or two. We had always figured 2015 for our breakout year, and now some of you are getting bent because of a mis-step in game 2 of 2014? I get it, you've been here a long, long, long time and are used to failure and are sensitive to it. We are still in line to win the division in 2014 and play for the Conference Championship. I know it's so hard for some to see improvements in the program when it looks so much like something you've seen before. Lord knows that the doom and gloom on this board can be found throughout the city of San Diego when it comes to sports. Chargers have 0 Superbowl wins, Padres have 0 World Series Titles, 0 no-hitters and have never had a player hit for the cycle. Aztecs Men's Basketball has never gotten past the Sweet 16. What exactly are the expectations of an Aztecs Football Program 5 years removed from a the Chuck Long era -- which in 3 seasons (2006-2008) had a record of 9-27? Is it that we had a chance to beat a nationally ranked team in UNC and came up short? Based on how they fared in the polls, it would not have held up as a quality win for long. We have another game in 2 weeks against Oregon St., and if we win the conference, we'll have another game vs a P5 opponent. We have games against Penn St. and Cal next year, and more P5s scheduled until 2022. So this program is on track to start notching those wins, but if you want to feel safe in your predictions of failure go ahead -- this is San Diego after all ... it's what we do here. EDIT: What we don't do is shy away from competition or a challenge ... ever!
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Post by 78aztec82 on Sept 8, 2014 2:12:44 GMT -8
This thread and it's predecessors this and last year stun me.
There's no draw to playing inferior competition in the San Diego market. Without draw there is no money. No money, no ablity to compete nationally.
This season's home slate will prove that. The garbage schedule will result in no attendance improvements over last year, despite the better pair of results compared to last year. SMH.
Sent from my SM-G900V using proboards
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Sept 8, 2014 4:02:26 GMT -8
This thread and it's predecessors this and last year stun me. There's no draw to playing inferior competition in the San Diego market. Without draw there is no money. No money, no ablity to compete nationally. But isn't that part of what we're saying? Playing Ohio State AT Ohio State does nothing to help our attendance when we lose that game there and they don't give a return game here. If they won't give us a return game then we shouldn't schedule them.
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Post by retiredaztec on Sept 8, 2014 4:49:25 GMT -8
Getting into the P5. We need the money. The G5 will go away in 10 years. This past weekend, I saw a piece on the day in the life of the Texas Tech HC. One scene he turns on the lights to a weight room the size of Peterson Gym and I think, "oh yea, we'd compete in the B12". Later one of the games I follow is Denton's finest lighting up SMU. I really have to wonder how many Mean Green fans are thinking, "this should get us in the P5". In the corporate world, distressed companies know you don't survive by cutting costs. You either have a viable product or you don't. Likewise, if State "needs the money" to survive, then arguably an infusion of cash is the only way Aztecs athletics will survive, then what the hell is the point? TCU and UTAH moved on to bigger conferences partly because they already had the fan base and the required resources. Having attended many a game on both campuses it's easy to see what a "big boy program" looks like. Even when they were in the MW. I have no doubt wins against UNC and OSU would probably have turned heads in San Diego. But yet once again, reaching a crossroad, the team drops the ball. Another loss in Oregon and 30-35,000 attendance will be the norm. Not what one would call P5 material. It can be argued that State should be in a P5 conference all day and all of the night. But when I look at the state of the football program, the facilities, the community support, the wasted opportunities and stupid decisions covering decades,I'm sometimes amazed the program is still on this side of the grass. Personally, I'll say it again. I would consider the season a success if the team makes it to the Las Vegas Bowl. The crown achievement in our little MW world.
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Post by sancarlosaztec on Sept 8, 2014 5:19:51 GMT -8
Why would playing a couple extra away games for $$ (more than we would get from the MW) turn away fans? Because we keep losing those games? We keep, "Proving," that we aren't big time college football. (That's the way the locals look at it - I've talked to a lot of them, and they actually laugh when I say that going to Aztec games is fun.) Unless we're winning those games they're hurting the perception of this team locally. Erik, One area that you and I disagree. I don't think losing these games means we are "proving" that we aren't big time college football. By actually competing during these games where there is a realistic chance to win, and I think we have "proved" that we do have the opportunity to win these games, I believe that we are "proving that we do belong. We will win one of these games, and I believe the more opportunities our teams are given and the more frequently they come, the sooner the wins will come as well. You have to be in these games to actually win some of them. Big fish small pond is slow death. There is no other viable choice except to fold up the tents and shut down the football program. I don't know about you, but to me that isn't a choice I would ever make.
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Post by AztecWilliam on Sept 8, 2014 6:58:53 GMT -8
Because we keep losing those games? We keep, "Proving," that we aren't big time college football. (That's the way the locals look at it - I've talked to a lot of them, and they actually laugh when I say that going to Aztec games is fun.) Unless we're winning those games they're hurting the perception of this team locally. Erik, One area that you and I disagree. I don't think losing these games means we are "proving" that we aren't big time college football. By actually competing during these games where there is a realistic chance to win, and I think we have "proved" that we do have the opportunity to win these games, I believe that we are "proving that we do belong. We will win one of these games, and I believe the more opportunities our teams are given and the more frequently they come, the sooner the wins will come as well. You have to be in these games to actually win some of them. Big fish small pond is slow death. There is no other viable choice except to fold up the tents and shut down the football program. I don't know about you, but to me that isn't a choice I would ever make. Well, of course that's true. But you actually have to win some for the theory to pan out. Winning one out of last 28 such games is not getting the job done. Or eleven out of ten zillion since 1980. By losing so often, we just convince the nation that we are really not much better than Liberty University or The Citadel. I don't know what the answer is, since of course we need to play at least a few games against P5 schools for at least a couple of reasons. Often, we are our own worst enemies. Other times we get robbed. The Missouri game is an example of the latter. Last year's Oregon State game, and Saturday's game are examples of the former. I don't know what the answer is. Maybe it will be up to the next head coach. Rocky is doing a good job, even a very good job. But he is not doing a lights-out excellent job. (I have cited on occasion the job Sonny Lubick did at woeful Colorado State as an example of the a superior head coaching performance.) If the latter were the case, perhaps we would not have blown the '13 Oregon St. game and Saturday's North Carolina game. And when speaking of the game against the Beavers, we can't even use being on the road as an excuse. AzWm
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Post by alohaboarder on Sept 8, 2014 7:52:04 GMT -8
Really the only way to get noticed is going 12-0 and turning some heads. Then win a bowl game against a p5 opponent. Then repeat.
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Post by sancarlosaztec on Sept 8, 2014 10:08:56 GMT -8
Erik, One area that you and I disagree. I don't think losing these games means we are "proving" that we aren't big time college football. By actually competing during these games where there is a realistic chance to win, and I think we have "proved" that we do have the opportunity to win these games, I believe that we are "proving that we do belong. We will win one of these games, and I believe the more opportunities our teams are given and the more frequently they come, the sooner the wins will come as well. You have to be in these games to actually win some of them. Big fish small pond is slow death. There is no other viable choice except to fold up the tents and shut down the football program. I don't know about you, but to me that isn't a choice I would ever make. Well, of course that's true. But you actually have to win some for the theory to pan out. Winning one out of last 28 such games is not getting the job done. Or eleven out of ten zillion since 1980. By losing so often, we just convince the nation that we are really not much better than Liberty University or The Citadel. I don't know what the answer is, since of course we need to play at least a few games against P5 schools for at least a couple of reasons. Often, we are our own worst enemies. Other times we get robbed. The Missouri game is an example of the latter. Last year's Oregon State game, and Saturday's game are examples of the former. I don't know what the answer is. Maybe it will be up to the next head coach. Rocky is doing a good job, even a very good job. But he is not doing a lights-out excellent job. (I have cited on occasion the job Sonny Lubick did at woeful Colorado State as an example of the a superior head coaching performance.) If the latter were the case, perhaps we would not have blown the '13 Oregon St. game and Saturday's North Carolina game. And when speaking of the game against the Beavers, we can't even use being on the road as an excuse. AzWm True, and I make no excuses. Aztec Football is a Bitch. But then again life is a Bitch too. The path to success that we all desire is different for each individual and for each team. Apparently SDSU Football has one of the tougher rows to hoe. We are not a school and a program born with a "golden spoon". Our path has not been paved before us. Fine. Let it be that way. Fight on ye Aztec Men and Women. Aztecs will emerge victorious in the end. Ultimately there can be no denying us. Unless of course we give up. It sounds like that is what Erik is contemplating.
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Post by 78aztec82 on Sept 8, 2014 12:10:14 GMT -8
This thread and it's predecessors this and last year stun me. There's no draw to playing inferior competition in the San Diego market. Without draw there is no money. No money, no ablity to compete nationally. But isn't that part of what we're saying? Playing Ohio State AT Ohio State does nothing to help our attendance when we lose that game there and they don't give a return game here. If they won't give us a return game then we shouldn't schedule them. I don't mind the one marquee game, especially when it nets us a ton of cash that we need. All in all we've competed well in those games. It isn't what we are talking about however. We are talking about a dreadful home schedule not drawing crowds. The context you put it in initially was keep trying to move up or accept our fate. Accepting our fate means dreadful home schedules and all that comes with that. Working to move up means scheduling more mid tier P 5 teams, doing what it takes. Beating up cupcakes won't draw and won't earn respect. Sent from my SM-G900V using proboards
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Post by KickAztec on Sept 8, 2014 15:37:51 GMT -8
Really the only way to get noticed is going 12-0 and turning some heads. Then win a bowl game against a p5 opponent. Then repeat. Great post. That is how you do it. And what we need to do. All this talk about moving down is a joke.
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Post by Spud on Sept 8, 2014 21:11:21 GMT -8
Honestly can't remember a dumber thread on here. Won't be wasting another second reading or responding to it. Come on Dave...there have been plenty of dumber threads. And I guess I'd like to know what's so dumb about it? It's a little bit of a passive aggressive slap at the Admin's in terms of their willingness to put resources behind the program for a real push to P-5. The problem is that it might be too late anyway.
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Sept 11, 2014 17:45:25 GMT -8
I do want to make one thing clear (something that should have been pretty clear from the beginning) - no one is advocating dropping SDSU down a level. No one.
What I'm talking about is making a change to how we schedule opponents. No more going to Michigan or Ohio State to lose yet again and get no return game in San Diego. Either we get a return game, or we don't bother scheduling those teams.
Until we start winning games against P5 opponents in their houses we should be scheduling mid level P5 teams instead of powerhouses, and ONLY when we get a return game HERE.
One mid level P5 opponent per season, and a couple decent G5 opponents to go along with the one FCS opponent. That's what we should be scheduling. If we start beating those mid level P5 teams with regularity then we can consider moving up to take on more prestigious opponents - but only if we get those return games in San Diego.
Our record would be better every season, and the program would continue to grow. We're not getting in a P5 conference until we start winning more because we won't be a TV ratings draw. We've been dreaming of getting into a major conference for decades, but it just isn't happening any time soon. We need to control what we can control and schedule teams we can beat or compete with on a fairly level playing field until we start beating those P5 teams fairly consistently. But running the Athletic Department like there's a good chance of us getting in rather than focusing on where we are now doesn't make sense. Scheduling opponents like we were a P5 team (or going to be one soon) is putting the cart before the horse. Control what we can control and don't just, "Hope for the best," when it comes to P5 expansion. Have a plan - a sound strategy - to make us the best team at our level and then maybe we'll be the next Utah or TCU.
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Post by tonatiuh on Sept 11, 2014 19:45:18 GMT -8
The thing is, in the 70's we went 10-1 and 11-0 playing mediocre out of conference competition. We'd typically schedule one fairly tough team, and the rest would be mediocre competition when it came to our out of conference schedule. It worked. We dominated the teams we were supposed to dominate, and every now and then we'd beat a supposedly superior team. Would that strategy work today? The wins would come, but would the fans? (It's not 1970 anymore, and people have a lot more to do around here than they did back then.) I know this, doing what we've been doing hasn't been working, and it hasn't gotten us a P5 invite... We did play some very good football in the 70's, but we did not have an undefeated season. Our last undefeated season was 1969 when we went 11-0, after that we did have three 10-1 seasons, '72, '76, &'77. Actually, Coryell was trying to go Big Time, and have better teams play us each season, but at the time many saw our play, and were too afraid to schedule us for fear we would out pass them and run up a score. Pass defense in the 1970's for most college teams was next to nothing, so they wouldn't take a chance on playing us.
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Post by sdmotohead on Sept 11, 2014 21:01:21 GMT -8
Seriously, why can't we be both a big fish IN a big pond?
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Sept 11, 2014 21:21:51 GMT -8
Seriously, why can't we be both a big fish IN a big pond? First, we have to get in the big pond (a difficult proposition at best). Second, we have to win when we get there. See TCU and Utah to find out how difficult a transition that can be. I'm saying let's dominate the pond we're in and stop scheduling games like we're Florida State or Alabama or schools like that. We can, possibly, work up to being good enough to play at that level, but we're not there yet, so scheduling games that are practically automatic losses with no return games at home is just stupid. Yes, we get big paydays, but is it really worth it when we end up with the kind of home schedule we've got this year?
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Post by sancarlosaztec on Sept 14, 2014 11:15:25 GMT -8
I do want to make one thing clear (something that should have been pretty clear from the beginning) - no one is advocating dropping SDSU down a level. No one. What I'm talking about is making a change to how we schedule opponents. No more going to Michigan or Ohio State to lose yet again and get no return game in San Diego. Either we get a return game, or we don't bother scheduling those teams. Until we start winning games against P5 opponents in their houses we should be scheduling mid level P5 teams instead of powerhouses, and ONLY when we get a return game HERE. One mid level P5 opponent per season, and a couple decent G5 opponents to go along with the one FCS opponent. That's what we should be scheduling. If we start beating those mid level P5 teams with regularity then we can consider moving up to take on more prestigious opponents - but only if we get those return games in San Diego. Our record would be better every season, and the program would continue to grow. We're not getting in a P5 conference until we start winning more because we won't be a TV ratings draw. We've been dreaming of getting into a major conference for decades, but it just isn't happening any time soon. We need to control what we can control and schedule teams we can beat or compete with on a fairly level playing field until we start beating those P5 teams fairly consistently. But running the Athletic Department like there's a good chance of us getting in rather than focusing on where we are now doesn't make sense. Scheduling opponents like we were a P5 team (or going to be one soon) is putting the cart before the horse. Control what we can control and don't just, "Hope for the best," when it comes to P5 expansion. Have a plan - a sound strategy - to make us the best team at our level and then maybe we'll be the next Utah or TCU. Thanks for clarifying. I think we are already scheduling mid level P5s. In some cases that is a generous description. Outside of a game at t-OSU, and one a UM we have played Oregon St., Washington St., UNC. IMO, given where our program is at, the latter are reasonable games. It would be nice to get some home & homes and add schools like Cal, AZ, Utah and ASU. I think those are winnable games -especially at home. What we don't need right now is UCLA/USC/Stanford/Oregon/t-OSU/Michigan/Wisconsin/etc... Maybe a Minnesota, Northwestern, Purdue, Iowa St. etc... would like a trip out to sunny so. cal.?
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Post by AztecWilliam on Sept 15, 2014 9:01:24 GMT -8
There is no doubt that 2014's home schedule is a real yawner. Even if we were in the Top-25, one has to wonder whether our attendance would rise above mediocre. With no invitation to a P5 conference in sight, this is what we are stuck in. I would call the MWC a small pond indeed.
But, let's not forget, we (and Boise) had a chance to do better with respect to conference scheduling. Had the two aforementioned schools not bailed out of the Big East/AAC deal, we would be in our second year of playing in that conference. Now, take a look at the members of that conference and tell me that playing these schools would not be better than playing the dregs we now have on our plate. (And, of course, Boise would be on that list.)
University of Central Florida University of Cincinnati University of Connecticut East Carolina University University of Houston University of Memphis University of South Florida Southern Methodist University Temple University Tulane Tulsa
AzWm
PS: Oh, yes, didn't East Carolina just beat Virginia Tech?
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