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Post by AztecWilliam on Jul 23, 2014 21:38:14 GMT -8
Let's say (yes, this is highly controversial ) that Barack Obama deep down does not see a whole lot of difference morally between Hamas and Israel. Also, let's say that he buys into the idea that Israel does not fight fair since it is so much stronger than Hamas and the Palestinians in general. Further, let's say that Obama knows that an outright condemnation of Israel would be political suicide. Finally, let's say that Obama would like to pressure Israel into doing something that it feels would represent an existential threat to its very existence. What might he do to further his aim of punishing Israel?
Well, how about crippling the Israeli economy? How could that be done? A Hamas missile lands one mile away from the airport. One mile. And this, don't forget, was an unguided ballistic missile much like the German V-2s. So we stop U.S. airliners from landing there "until there is clearly no chance of a one in a zillion shot hitting an airliner either near to or at the airport." But, of course, the current hostility between Israel and Hamas will, sadly, go on for years. How long until Israel is crippled economically as a result of the loss of tourism that would be caused by U.S. airlines not flying to Israel? Perhaps not too long. And that would delight Hamas and the others (including not a few Europeans) who would love to see the state of Israel destroyed.
The last I heard, there were still 14 airlines that had not halted operations in Israel, though the U.S. and some others keep putting 24 hour embargoes on landings.
I know that many, perhaps almost all who read this vehemently reject the idea that BHO dislikes Israel. My own opinion is that Obama has absorbed a lot of the blame America first philosophy, and an important part of that is criticism of Israel and our support for that country. Yes, he has said that he supports Israel. He has said it, but he has not convinced me that he really means it. If I am correct, finding a pretext for stopping air traffic to Israel would be a very neat way to cripple those unyielding, pesky Zionists.
Go ahead, I know the flames are coming. Do your worst.
AzWm
PS: Imagine what the Israeli casualties would be like if they did not have the Iron Dome defense system. How unsporting of them to use technology to prevent the deaths of thousands women, kids, and senior citizens. I'd like to point out one thing that those who, on a daily basis, desire and try make real the destruction of Israel should not forget. The Israelis have nukes. If it every came down to the real possibility that an anti-Israel attack threatened to overrun that country, I have no doubt that the attackers would suffer the same fate that devastated Hiroshima, and Nagasaki. Any American President who does not vigorously support Israel, in word and deed, makes that horrible nightmare scenario just bit more likely. One way to NOT support Israel is to treat Hamas terrorism as somehow the same as damage done by the IDF in the cause of self-defense. |
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Post by aztecwin on Jul 24, 2014 11:00:39 GMT -8
Well, twelve hours and no takers. The FAA has taken the restriction down if what I heard on the radio is correct. I wonder if someone found the communication between the White House and the FAA and the restriction was lifted to cover up that link. William's speculation might not be that far off.
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Post by azteccc on Jul 24, 2014 12:15:52 GMT -8
lol
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Post by azson on Jul 24, 2014 16:51:28 GMT -8
"Price check on tin-foil hats on aisle four please... "
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Post by azteccc on Jul 24, 2014 17:13:20 GMT -8
I actually just read Cruz and Bloomberg's comments that your essay seems to have been initiated by...
Had to come back and say lol again.
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Post by azteccc on Jul 24, 2014 17:23:24 GMT -8
I'm sorry, I'm not being productive. But let's be truthful here, the original psot is a complete and utter joke. So let's move past the dumb OP and the dumb responses.
No Senator Cruz, you're a loon. But if we're being honest, should Israel decide to want to keep America, the most powerful country on earth, as a close ally - they should absolutely need our approval for any foreign policy decision of this magnitude.
You can do what you want, and you can also lean on us for your sheer survival... But both shouldn't fly. (Get it? Shouldn't fly...)
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Post by AztecWilliam on Jul 24, 2014 21:44:43 GMT -8
I actually just read Cruz and Bloomberg's comments that your essay seems to have been initiated by... Had to come back and say lol again.
Nope, you are wrong. I only saw Sen. Cruz talking about the issue AFTER I had posted my thread.
I really do believe that Pres. Obama has, at best, a luke warm attitude toward Israel. Of course he does not want to see Israel destroyed. I certainly do not think that he is a hate-filled, sadistic monster (which is how I would characterize Hamas, the Iranian Mullahs, and other virulent contemporary anti-Semites).
On the other hand, I suspect that the President feels that Israel is largely to blame for the troubles in the Levant. We should keep in mind that in 1947 the UN presented the Jews and the Muslims a deal which gave each territory for a state of their own. (I believe that I am correct in saying that the UN-drawn borders actually gave Israel slightly less territory than it now occupies, and in that latter sense I am NOT referring to the West Bank.) Anyway, the Jews accepted the deal and the Muslims started a war. The first of at least half a dozen wars of various sizes, all started by the Muslims. I fear that the President has swallowed quite a bit of the anti-Israeli propaganda. What worries me is that there is a move brewing to start an international campaign designed to isolate Israel economically, just as South Africa was isolated. Such a campaign was justified in the case of Apartheid South Africa. A similar campaign against Israel would be a tragic mistake. Furthermore, I fear that there are those on the Left in this country who would support an effort to bring Israel to its knees. I cannot be absolutely certain that Pres. Obama would favor such a campaign, but I do think it might tempt him.
One of the things that concerns those of us who do not have faith in the President is that he uses the bully pulpit of his office quite selectively. Case in point. The Prime Minister of Turkey (a country that is moving from being one of our, and Israel's best allies in that region to being very close to an enemy) has just said that what Israel is doing in Gaza is worse than what Hitler did to the Jews. Please chew on that statement a moment. Adolf Hitler caused the murder of millions of people, principally Jews. Israel, after absorbing hundreds of missiles fired indiscriminately into its territory, has reluctantly taken military action against a contemptible gang of murdering thugs who have declared again and again that they seek the destruction of Israel. How can anybody who is not motivated by total hatred of Israel in particular and Jews in general think that Israeli self-defense is worse than the Holocaust? It is of course not possible, which only proves that the Turkish PM seems to have joined the ranks of the hate-filled anti-Semites.
The military action in Gaza is horrific, but those responsible are Hamas and other Muslim groups for whom destroying Israel is more important than building a better life for Palestinians. It isn't pretty, but war never is. It won't get any prettier before it's over. Why can our President not go on national television and denounce in the strongest terms what the Turkish Prime Minister has said? I trust that he can see the difference between the two parties to the violence. However, for some reason he will not use his position to make clear to all the world that we know who is to blame. A man of courage and conviction would make such a statement publicly, again and again if necessary. I regret to say that we apparently do not have such a person in the Oval Office.
Ronald Reagan, acting against the strong advice of his own people, said; "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" Regarding Gaza, all that Barack Obama has said is that both side show restraint in the Gaza matter. Really? That's about like someone at the League of Nations saying of the bombing of German cities in 1944, "Why can't the Germans and the Allies both show restraint. . . look at all the people you are killing in those German cities."
AzWm
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Post by Old_SD_Dude on Jul 28, 2014 18:33:27 GMT -8
I actually just read Cruz and Bloomberg's comments that your essay seems to have been initiated by... Had to come back and say lol again.
Nope, you are wrong. I only saw Sen. Cruz talking about the issue AFTER I had posted my thread.
I really do believe that Pres. Obama has, at best, a luke warm attitude toward Israel. Of course he does not want to see Israel destroyed. I certainly do not think that he is a hate-filled, sadistic monster (which is how I would characterize Hamas, the Iranian Mullahs, and other virulent contemporary anti-Semites).
On the other hand, I suspect that the President feels that Israel is largely to blame for the troubles in the Levant. We should keep in mind that in 1947 the UN presented the Jews and the Muslims a deal which gave each territory for a state of their own. (I believe that I am correct in saying that the UN-drawn borders actually gave Israel slightly less territory than it now occupies, and in that latter sense I am NOT referring to the West Bank.) Anyway, the Jews accepted the deal and the Muslims started a war. The first of at least half a dozen wars of various sizes, all started by the Muslims. I fear that the President has swallowed quite a bit of the anti-Israeli propaganda. What worries me is that there is a move brewing to start an international campaign designed to isolate Israel economically, just as South Africa was isolated. Such a campaign was justified in the case of Apartheid South Africa. A similar campaign against Israel would be a tragic mistake. Furthermore, I fear that there are those on the Left in this country who would support an effort to bring Israel to its knees. I cannot be absolutely certain that Pres. Obama would favor such a campaign, but I do think it might tempt him.
One of the things that concerns those of us who do not have faith in the President is that he uses the bully pulpit of his office quite selectively. Case in point. The Prime Minister of Turkey (a country that is moving from being one of our, and Israel's best allies in that region to being very close to an enemy) has just said that what Israel is doing in Gaza is worse than what Hitler did to the Jews. Please chew on that statement a moment. Adolf Hitler caused the murder of millions of people, principally Jews. Israel, after absorbing hundreds of missiles fired indiscriminately into its territory, has reluctantly taken military action against a contemptible gang of murdering thugs who have declared again and again that they seek the destruction of Israel. How can anybody who is not motivated by total hatred of Israel in particular and Jews in general think that Israeli self-defense is worse than the Holocaust? It is of course not possible, which only proves that the Turkish PM seems to have joined the ranks of the hate-filled anti-Semites.
The military action in Gaza is horrific, but those responsible are Hamas and other Muslim groups for whom destroying Israel is more important than building a better life for Palestinians. It isn't pretty, but war never is. It won't get any prettier before it's over. Why can our President not go on national television and denounce in the strongest terms what the Turkish Prime Minister has said? I trust that he can see the difference between the two parties to the violence. However, for some reason he will not use his position to make clear to all the world that we know who is to blame. A man of courage and conviction would make such a statement publicly, again and again if necessary. I regret to say that we apparently do not have such a person in the Oval Office.
Ronald Reagan, acting against the strong advice of his own people, said; "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" Regarding Gaza, all that Barack Obama has said is that both side show restraint in the Gaza matter. Really? That's about like someone at the League of Nations saying of the bombing of German cities in 1944, "Why can't the Germans and the Allies both show restraint. . . look at all the people you are killing in those German cities."
AzWm It's not accurate to say all the wars were started by the Arabs. The '67 war was initiated by Israel, although one could argue that it was preemptive. The '56 war was a flat-out Israeli attack aided by Britain and France invading Egypt. |
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Post by aztec70 on Jul 29, 2014 11:44:45 GMT -8
I actually just read Cruz and Bloomberg's comments that your essay seems to have been initiated by... Had to come back and say lol again.
Nope, you are wrong. I only saw Sen. Cruz talking about the issue AFTER I had posted my thread.
I really do believe that Pres. Obama has, at best, a luke warm attitude toward Israel. Of course he does not want to see Israel destroyed. I certainly do not think that he is a hate-filled, sadistic monster (which is how I would characterize Hamas, the Iranian Mullahs, and other virulent contemporary anti-Semites).
On the other hand, I suspect that the President feels that Israel is largely to blame for the troubles in the Levant. We should keep in mind that in 1947 the UN presented the Jews and the Muslims a deal which gave each territory for a state of their own. (I believe that I am correct in saying that the UN-drawn borders actually gave Israel slightly less territory than it now occupies, and in that latter sense I am NOT referring to the West Bank.) Anyway, the Jews accepted the deal and the Muslims started a war. The first of at least half a dozen wars of various sizes, all started by the Muslims. I fear that the President has swallowed quite a bit of the anti-Israeli propaganda. What worries me is that there is a move brewing to start an international campaign designed to isolate Israel economically, just as South Africa was isolated. Such a campaign was justified in the case of Apartheid South Africa. A similar campaign against Israel would be a tragic mistake. Furthermore, I fear that there are those on the Left in this country who would support an effort to bring Israel to its knees. I cannot be absolutely certain that Pres. Obama would favor such a campaign, but I do think it might tempt him.
One of the things that concerns those of us who do not have faith in the President is that he uses the bully pulpit of his office quite selectively. Case in point. The Prime Minister of Turkey (a country that is moving from being one of our, and Israel's best allies in that region to being very close to an enemy) has just said that what Israel is doing in Gaza is worse than what Hitler did to the Jews. Please chew on that statement a moment. Adolf Hitler caused the murder of millions of people, principally Jews. Israel, after absorbing hundreds of missiles fired indiscriminately into its territory, has reluctantly taken military action against a contemptible gang of murdering thugs who have declared again and again that they seek the destruction of Israel. How can anybody who is not motivated by total hatred of Israel in particular and Jews in general think that Israeli self-defense is worse than the Holocaust? It is of course not possible, which only proves that the Turkish PM seems to have joined the ranks of the hate-filled anti-Semites.
The military action in Gaza is horrific, but those responsible are Hamas and other Muslim groups for whom destroying Israel is more important than building a better life for Palestinians. It isn't pretty, but war never is. It won't get any prettier before it's over. Why can our President not go on national television and denounce in the strongest terms what the Turkish Prime Minister has said? I trust that he can see the difference between the two parties to the violence. However, for some reason he will not use his position to make clear to all the world that we know who is to blame. A man of courage and conviction would make such a statement publicly, again and again if necessary. I regret to say that we apparently do not have such a person in the Oval Office.
Ronald Reagan, acting against the strong advice of his own people, said; "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" Regarding Gaza, all that Barack Obama has said is that both side show restraint in the Gaza matter. Really? That's about like someone at the League of Nations saying of the bombing of German cities in 1944, "Why can't the Germans and the Allies both show restraint. . . look at all the people you are killing in those German cities."
AzWm If you want to invoke Saint Ronald in this thread, you should at least remember what he is known for in Lebanon. Coming to his senses and getting out. Of course, had that been Obama you would have called it "cutting and running". |
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Post by AztecWilliam on Aug 6, 2014 17:51:51 GMT -8
Nope, you are wrong. I only saw Sen. Cruz talking about the issue AFTER I had posted my thread.
I really do believe that Pres. Obama has, at best, a luke warm attitude toward Israel. Of course he does not want to see Israel destroyed. I certainly do not think that he is a hate-filled, sadistic monster (which is how I would characterize Hamas, the Iranian Mullahs, and other virulent contemporary anti-Semites).
On the other hand, I suspect that the President feels that Israel is largely to blame for the troubles in the Levant. We should keep in mind that in 1947 the UN presented the Jews and the Muslims a deal which gave each territory for a state of their own. (I believe that I am correct in saying that the UN-drawn borders actually gave Israel slightly less territory than it now occupies, and in that latter sense I am NOT referring to the West Bank.) Anyway, the Jews accepted the deal and the Muslims started a war. The first of at least half a dozen wars of various sizes, all started by the Muslims. I fear that the President has swallowed quite a bit of the anti-Israeli propaganda. What worries me is that there is a move brewing to start an international campaign designed to isolate Israel economically, just as South Africa was isolated. Such a campaign was justified in the case of Apartheid South Africa. A similar campaign against Israel would be a tragic mistake. Furthermore, I fear that there are those on the Left in this country who would support an effort to bring Israel to its knees. I cannot be absolutely certain that Pres. Obama would favor such a campaign, but I do think it might tempt him.
One of the things that concerns those of us who do not have faith in the President is that he uses the bully pulpit of his office quite selectively. Case in point. The Prime Minister of Turkey (a country that is moving from being one of our, and Israel's best allies in that region to being very close to an enemy) has just said that what Israel is doing in Gaza is worse than what Hitler did to the Jews. Please chew on that statement a moment. Adolf Hitler caused the murder of millions of people, principally Jews. Israel, after absorbing hundreds of missiles fired indiscriminately into its territory, has reluctantly taken military action against a contemptible gang of murdering thugs who have declared again and again that they seek the destruction of Israel. How can anybody who is not motivated by total hatred of Israel in particular and Jews in general think that Israeli self-defense is worse than the Holocaust? It is of course not possible, which only proves that the Turkish PM seems to have joined the ranks of the hate-filled anti-Semites.
The military action in Gaza is horrific, but those responsible are Hamas and other Muslim groups for whom destroying Israel is more important than building a better life for Palestinians. It isn't pretty, but war never is. It won't get any prettier before it's over. Why can our President not go on national television and denounce in the strongest terms what the Turkish Prime Minister has said? I trust that he can see the difference between the two parties to the violence. However, for some reason he will not use his position to make clear to all the world that we know who is to blame. A man of courage and conviction would make such a statement publicly, again and again if necessary. I regret to say that we apparently do not have such a person in the Oval Office.
Ronald Reagan, acting against the strong advice of his own people, said; "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" Regarding Gaza, all that Barack Obama has said is that both side show restraint in the Gaza matter. Really? That's about like someone at the League of Nations saying of the bombing of German cities in 1944, "Why can't the Germans and the Allies both show restraint. . . look at all the people you are killing in those German cities."
AzWm If you want to invoke Saint Ronald in this thread, you should at least remember what he is known for in Lebanon. Coming to his senses and getting out. Of course, had that been Obama you would have called it "cutting and running".
I was at the time, and remain to this day, critical of Reagan for his handling of the Lebanon situation. As it was, the swift withdrawal after the bombing fueled the impression that the U.S. was a paper tiger. Our troops should not have been left there, virtual sitting ducks, with no clear assignment to perform.
(Another failure of the Reagan administration reminds one of the lack of security at the Benghazi consulate two years ago. As I recall, the murder of all those Marines in Beirut could have been and probably would have been avoided had the guards been allowed to carry loaded weapons.)
Oh, yes; for the record, I voted Libertarian in 1980 and '84. If you wish to criticize Ronald Reagan, go ahead. It won't hurt my feelings. Still, it's hard to imagine that Reagan would not have been far superior as President were he in his prime and serving today. Yes, that's a low bar to clear, to be sure.
AzWm |
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