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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2013 20:16:39 GMT -8
There is no salary cap in baseball. Meaning that the Padres do not need to strategically sign players to maximize the distribution of talent. They can spend as much as they want. So from a fan's perspective, how can it be a mistake not to sign somebody who would upgrade your team? Adrian Gonzalez would be a significant upgrade offensively and defensively from what we have. There is nothing to say that just because we got Cashner in the deal, that we would be somehow worse off. what if we signed Adrian AND we signed a free agent pitcher that's better than Cashner? Why are you so opposed to holding the ownership and front office of the Padres accountable? How many more losing seasons would it take from the Padres before you agreed with the rest of us that they have done a poor job of running the team? Significant upgrade defensively ? You think he is still the gold glove first baseman we knew? He has more errors in his 712 innings this year, than his 2,600 previous innings. Only Joey Votto has a lower fielding percentage at first than AGon this year. By far the lowest of his career. Players tend to field better when they are younger. Alonzo has fielded great with only 1 error. How many games has Alonso played in? About 45 or 50.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2013 20:17:39 GMT -8
Any quality hitters the Padres have in the system is a good thing. They don't even have to play defense. Within a few years, the DH WILL be in the NL. If we had signed AGon we probably wouldn't have signed Carlos Quentin. Quess who is hitting better. Talk to me in August when Quentin takes his annual vacation in the ice tub and trainers room.
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Post by AztecBill on Jul 10, 2013 7:26:23 GMT -8
If we had signed AGon we probably wouldn't have signed Carlos Quentin. Quess who is hitting better. Talk to me in August when Quentin takes his annual vacation in the ice tub and trainers room. But the broader point is that the $21 million over the years will be expended for a number of other free agents that would otherwise be squeezed out by the bloated AGon contract, had we signed him. That is in addition to the value of the players we aquired via the trade.
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Post by Section T(urn Up) on Jul 10, 2013 11:25:26 GMT -8
Not defending Bill at all since I too grow tired of the spin factory, but the notion that fans deserve to be frustrated because the Padres could sign anybody they want and simply choose not to is far too simplistic.
Padres fans should be frustrated and fed up because the team has been bad for the last 10 years. Obviously, the team could have and should have done things differently in that time.
However, criticizing the team for not resigning Gonzalez to a contract like Boston gave him is just unrealistic. I guess you can complain about that if you want, but then you're not working within the rules and terms of reality. If the furthest you want to take the discussion is "the Padres can do anything they want and money is all that's stopping them," then you're just whining. It's akin to posting about SDSU not having an on-campus football stadium over and over. The Padres, like any business, have an operating budget. They aren't going to go outside of that and, as various teams have shown, they don't need to to win.
One thing I can guarantee, the people who work for the Padres are probably as fed up as everyone else with the losing. Baseball isn't an easy industry to get into, and the guys who do had to work damn hard to do it. I'm all for being critical of the product they put out there, but it's not as easy as saying "spend more money."
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Post by AztecBill on Jul 10, 2013 14:56:12 GMT -8
Not defending Bill at all since I too grow tired of the spin factory, but the notion that fans deserve to be frustrated because the Padres could sign anybody they want and simply choose not to is far too simplistic. Padres fans should be frustrated and fed up because the team has been bad for the last 10 years. Obviously, the team could have and should have done things differently in that time. However, criticizing the team for not resigning Gonzalez to a contract like Boston gave him is just unrealistic. I guess you can complain about that if you want, but then you're not working within the rules and terms of reality. If the furthest you want to take the discussion is "the Padres can do anything they want and money is all that's stopping them," then you're just whining. It's akin to posting about SDSU not having an on-campus football stadium over and over. The Padres, like any business, have an operating budget. They aren't going to go outside of that and, as various teams have shown, they don't need to to win. One thing I can guarantee, the people who work for the Padres are probably as fed up as everyone else with the losing. Baseball isn't an easy industry to get into, and the guys who do had to work damn hard to do it. I'm all for being critical of the product they put out there, but it's not as easy as saying "spend more money." I agree, I too grow tired of folks spinning everything negative. There those that think everything the Padres do is bad.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2013 15:12:08 GMT -8
Not defending Bill at all since I too grow tired of the spin factory, but the notion that fans deserve to be frustrated because the Padres could sign anybody they want and simply choose not to is far too simplistic. Padres fans should be frustrated and fed up because the team has been bad for the last 10 years. Obviously, the team could have and should have done things differently in that time. However, criticizing the team for not resigning Gonzalez to a contract like Boston gave him is just unrealistic. I guess you can complain about that if you want, but then you're not working within the rules and terms of reality. If the furthest you want to take the discussion is "the Padres can do anything they want and money is all that's stopping them," then you're just whining. It's akin to posting about SDSU not having an on-campus football stadium over and over. The Padres, like any business, have an operating budget. They aren't going to go outside of that and, as various teams have shown, they don't need to to win. One thing I can guarantee, the people who work for the Padres are probably as fed up as everyone else with the losing. Baseball isn't an easy industry to get into, and the guys who do had to work damn hard to do it. I'm all for being critical of the product they put out there, but it's not as easy as saying "spend more money." I agree, I too grow tired of folks spinning everything negative. There those that think everything the Padres do is bad. I don't think everything the padres do us bad. I think the overall product the padres put on the field is bad, and has been bad, but a long while. They lucked into a pretty good season a few years ago but even then they crashed down the stretch. Bill it's just so funny how you always post $#!+ about how great the padres moves are and their prospects are yet the product itself continues to be mediocre. It appears that the whole of allow these moves is far less than the sum of the parts.
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Post by aztecmusician on Jul 10, 2013 16:30:16 GMT -8
Any quality hitters the Padres have in the system is a good thing. They don't even have to play defense. Within a few years, the DH WILL be in the NL. If we had signed AGon we probably wouldn't have signed Carlos Quentin. Quess who is hitting better. You can quote and massage all the stats you want, but there is only one stat which counts: Year before Adrian trade: 2010. 90-72 Since: 2011. 71-91 2012. 76-86 2013. 41-50 I suggest you study these stats very carefully, they speak volumes to the fortunes of the franchise post AG.
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Post by AztecBill on Jul 11, 2013 8:56:24 GMT -8
If we had signed AGon we probably wouldn't have signed Carlos Quentin. Quess who is hitting better. You can quote and massage all the stats you want, but there is only one stat which counts: Year before Adrian trade: 2010. 90-72 Since: 2011. 71-91 2012. 76-86 2013. 41-50 I suggest you study these stats very carefully, they speak volumes to the fortunes of the franchise post AG. Wow! So Gonzalez made a difference of 19 games between 2010 and 2011. That is amazing. You should email baseball perspectous since they only had his WAR (Wins above replacement) at 4.1 games that year. You should show them your logic and tell them to change it to 19.0. I am sure they will see you are right. Make sure you don't mention that the Padres defense and pitching allowed 3.58 runs per game in 2010. Since that was the best in baseball, they may get the wrong idea.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2013 9:18:33 GMT -8
If the Padre's front office have made all the right moves Bill, then WHY ARE WE IN LAST PLACE?
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Post by AztecBill on Jul 11, 2013 10:10:13 GMT -8
If the Padre's front office have made all the right moves Bill, then WHY ARE WE IN LAST PLACE?2 weeks ago when they were in 2nd place were their moves better? I never contended that the Padres made all the right moves. If this board was generally pollyannish about the Padres, I would counter that where I that it was not correct. Padres Player Payrolls (season start) and Record2010: $ 37,799,300 90-72 2011: $ 45,869,140 71-91 2012: $ 55,621,900 76-86 2013: $ 68,333,600 41-50 Maybe they are spending too much money. In 2010 they spent $37 million and did much better. In 2008 the Padres started the season with a player payroll of $73,677,616. That was close to our opponents. Moores divorce forced payroll to constrict significantly. The new owners are willing to spend more but want to be smart about it. They need the right move(s) at the right time to make a run and not sell a future that could bring consistent winning instead of using the Marlins model of going from $57 Million in 2011 to $102 million in 2012 with nothing to show for it. This year the Marlins went back to $50 Million and have a lot of young players to build from the bottom up. That is the Padres model. See Angels too. I work with an Angel fan who is very upset that the Angels went away from what made them good. NL West Player Payrolls (4/1/13) LAD $216,753,286 SFO $136,908,777 ARI $ 86,300,500 COL $ 73,949,071 SDG $ 68,333,600 We have to work smarter. We will never have a $200M+ payroll.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2013 10:40:28 GMT -8
If the Padre's front office have made all the right moves Bill, then WHY ARE WE IN LAST PLACE?2 weeks ago when they were in 2nd place were their moves better? I never contended that the Padres made all the right moves. If this board was generally pollyannish about the Padres, I would counter that where I that it was not correct. Padres Player Payrolls (season start) and Record2010: $ 37,799,300 90-72 2011: $ 45,869,140 71-91 2012: $ 55,621,900 76-86 2013: $ 68,333,600 41-50 Maybe they are spending too much money. In 2010 they spent $37 million and did much better. In 2008 the Padres started the season with a player payroll of $73,677,616. That was close to our opponents. Moores divorce forced payroll to constrict significantly. The new owners are willing to spend more but want to be smart about it. They need the right move(s) at the right time to make a run and not sell a future that could bring consistent winning instead of using the Marlins model of going from $57 Million in 2011 to $102 million in 2012 with nothing to show for it. This year the Marlins went back to $50 Million and have a lot of young players to build from the bottom up. That is the Padres model. See Angels too. I work with an Angel fan who is very upset that the Angels went away from what made them good. NL West Player Payrolls (4/1/13) LAD $216,753,286 SFO $136,908,777 ARI $ 86,300,500 COL $ 73,949,071 SDG $ 68,333,600 We have to work smarter. We will never have a $200M+ payroll. So how many more consecutive years of losing baseball would it to take for you before you would be willing to admit that the Padres front office hasn't done a very good job?
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Post by AztecBill on Jul 11, 2013 14:46:24 GMT -8
So how many more consecutive years of losing baseball would it to take for you before you would be willing to admit that the Padres front office hasn't done a very good job? We have had 2 consecutive years of losing. I am not sure I can answer your question. I look at what they do and judge it. I would like a big free agent signing or two. I am not sure what position is really best to improve. CF: Maybin is 26. At 24 he had a decent year. I hope he can come back this year so we have more evidence to base giving up on him or not. RF: Blanks, Denorfia, and Venable can fight for that spot until Larinio is ready. LF: Quentin is signed through 2016. We would need to move him to make a deal for a LF. 3B: Headley ? Long term or not? He is having a bad year but maybe that is an opportunity to get a bargin. SS: Cabrera is our all-star. He is playing great. 2B: Gyorko seems to be the answer there and Forsythe is ready to take over if not. 1B: Alonzo is young and is playing OK. Blanks could be a backup or fill in against lefties if needed. That could be an area of improvement but we need more evidence. C: Grandal? Was his success an illusion? How long before Hedges is ready? Starting Pitching: Luebuke being hurt all year really hurts. He is the only starter that seems to be an Ace type starter. Casey Kelley was the best prospect amoung the minor league starters, but he also has been hurt all year. Starting pitching is the strength of the farm system. We really need to sign a very good starter. But those injured and the minors have a bunch of quality candidates for the rotation next year. Edison Volquez and Jason Marquiz are free agents next year. That frees up about $9 million to find a new starter. Add some money to that and get a stud. Bullpen: They have not been pitching well after being a strong point throughout Towers reign. Getting a stud or two would be great. Where is the right place to improve? 1. A starting pitcher, 2. ?? If the Padres sign a very good starting pitcher for next year, what is the second move?
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Post by AztecBill on Jul 12, 2013 7:13:19 GMT -8
If the Padres sign a very good starting pitcher for next year, what is the second move? Very difficult question. To compete for league championships, we'd probably need only... C 1B maybe 3B probably SS (I'm not yet sold on Cabrera.) and then at least two from the following: LF RF CF Then we'd need a closer and probably a setup man. Oh and one "very good" starting pitcher is one too few. If that is true, then the Padres should trade anything of worth for prospects.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2013 9:38:53 GMT -8
Why would you dump Stults? He's good. ain't nothin wrong with a 3.5 ERA.
Quentin is just fine too. Who are we going to replace him with? He leads the team in HR and will proably lead the team in RBIs before the season is over.
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Post by aztecmusician on Jul 13, 2013 17:15:53 GMT -8
I have been saying this for the past 6 years about the Pads: Their front office has very marginal capabilities when it comes to judging young talent, and for an organization which "builds from within" that is a recipe for perpetual mediocracy.
Maybin, Blanks, Venable, Hundley are not going to develop into all stars, cut bait while you can with these guys. If a starting pitcher can't stay healthy, and the Pads have a lot of these kind of arms, he is useless. The Giants and Dodgers seem to know what to look for with pitching mechanics, the Padres obviously don't.
The new ownership needs to clean out the entire front office and start the rebuild right there.
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Post by untitled on Jul 13, 2013 21:25:31 GMT -8
4 walks and a HBP. That screams "Padres blow" more than tiny tim is awesome. Now I have to listen to drunk norcal d-bags scream outside my apartment all night.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2013 21:42:36 GMT -8
Pathetic.
The highlight of the last 3 years has been being 2 games over .500.
This franchise is a joke at every level.
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Post by aardvark on Jul 15, 2013 20:10:59 GMT -8
So how many more consecutive years of losing baseball would it to take for you before you would be willing to admit that the Padres front office hasn't done a very good job? We have had 2 consecutive years of losing. I am not sure I can answer your question. I look at what they do and judge it. I would like a big free agent signing or two. I am not sure what position is really best to improve. CF: Maybin is 26. At 24 he had a decent year. I hope he can come back this year so we have more evidence to base giving up on him or not. RF: Blanks, Denorfia, and Venable can fight for that spot until Larinio is ready. LF: Quentin is signed through 2016. We would need to move him to make a deal for a LF. 3B: Headley ? Long term or not? He is having a bad year but maybe that is an opportunity to get a bargin. SS: Cabrera is our all-star. He is playing great. 2B: Gyorko seems to be the answer there and Forsythe is ready to take over if not. 1B: Alonzo is young and is playing OK. Blanks could be a backup or fill in against lefties if needed. That could be an area of improvement but we need more evidence. C: Grandal? Was his success an illusion? How long before Hedges is ready? Starting Pitching: Luebuke being hurt all year really hurts. He is the only starter that seems to be an Ace type starter. Casey Kelley was the best prospect amoung the minor league starters, but he also has been hurt all year. Starting pitching is the strength of the farm system. We really need to sign a very good starter. But those injured and the minors have a bunch of quality candidates for the rotation next year. Edison Volquez and Jason Marquiz are free agents next year. That frees up about $9 million to find a new starter. Add some money to that and get a stud. Bullpen: They have not been pitching well after being a strong point throughout Towers reign. Getting a stud or two would be great. Where is the right place to improve? 1. A starting pitcher, 2. ?? If the Padres sign a very good starting pitcher for next year, what is the second move? RF--Liriano lost all of 2013 due to elbow surgery (and you thought only Padre pitchers were bitten by that bug). The bullpen woes could be tied to the passing of Darrel Akerfelds. The BP hasn't been the same since he went to that BP in the sky. Yes, we need a starter. Also, if Cabrera gets suspended, that will kill the top of the order.
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Post by AztecBill on Aug 27, 2013 9:23:15 GMT -8
That "forgotten piece" got promoted for an early look. He turns 23 next February.
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Post by podpeople on Aug 28, 2013 13:54:12 GMT -8
That "forgotten piece" got promoted for an early look. He turns 23 next February. He looks over matched thus far.
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