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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2013 10:50:25 GMT -8
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Post by podpeople on Feb 7, 2013 23:13:20 GMT -8
I wonder if ownership is oblivious to the current state of Padre fans? They have to be. Though, I wouldnt be surprised to see them behind closed doors regarding us as a minority on a pie chart.
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Post by AztecBill on Feb 8, 2013 10:16:46 GMT -8
They go on and on about the Peavy trade and don't consider for a second that it may have been a baseball decision. Writing the history of the Padres new ownership at this point is a little premature.
Adam trade was good for the Padres Robbie Erlin and Joe Wieland are future parts of the Padres rotation.
They act as if Ryan Ludwick was a stud for the Padres. The Padres got rid of him because he sucked. They only said about him that he was his highest paid player.
The attacks on Padres drafts after 2009 are misleading and totally incomplete. The Padres drafts and draft philosophy has been great.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2013 13:46:55 GMT -8
They go on and on about the Peavy trade and don't consider for a second that it may have been a baseball decision. Writing the history of the Padres new ownership at this point is a little premature. Adam trade was good for the Padres Robbie Erlin and Joe Wieland are future parts of the Padres rotation. They act as if Ryan Ludwick was a stud for the Padres. The Padres got rid of him because he sucked. They only said about him that he was his highest paid player. The attacks on Padres drafts after 2009 are misleading and totally incomplete. The Padres drafts and draft philosophy has been great. While I agree the farm system is definitely improved, it's premature to call the Padres drafts "great". We've yet to see homegrown players blossom into real major league talent. IMPACT players. I think we'll be seeing that soon with a couple of these guys tho. |
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Post by azson on Feb 8, 2013 13:51:19 GMT -8
Unfortunately, after 40+ years of SD Professional sports fandom, I always expect the worst (especially from from Charger and Padre ownership) of our local pro teams.
Thank God for the Aztecs.
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Post by kaztec on Feb 8, 2013 20:00:41 GMT -8
They go on and on about the Peavy trade and don't consider for a second that it may have been a baseball decision. Writing the history of the Padres new ownership at this point is a little premature. Adam trade was good for the Padres Robbie Erlin and Joe Wieland are future parts of the Padres rotation. They act as if Ryan Ludwick was a stud for the Padres. The Padres got rid of him because he sucked. They only said about him that he was his highest paid player. The attacks on Padres drafts after 2009 are misleading and totally incomplete. The Padres drafts and draft philosophy has been great. Bill, you and I both know that the entire operation has been a sh*tshow since the minute Prop C passed. Yes, there is some hyperbole in the video, but the point being projected is solid. I WAS a Pads season ticket holder, but let them lapse. I haven't been to a Pades game in 2 years. It is really sad. I love baseball, but the Padre ownership has driven me away. Right now I'd rather go see our local HS team than donate the $ to the Padre ownership by attending a Padre game. |
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Post by podpeople on Feb 8, 2013 21:59:05 GMT -8
looks like the video is getting press with the UT. Nice.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2013 12:34:16 GMT -8
They go on and on about the Peavy trade and don't consider for a second that it may have been a baseball decision. Writing the history of the Padres new ownership at this point is a little premature. Adam trade was good for the Padres Robbie Erlin and Joe Wieland are future parts of the Padres rotation. They act as if Ryan Ludwick was a stud for the Padres. The Padres got rid of him because he sucked. They only said about him that he was his highest paid player. The attacks on Padres drafts after 2009 are misleading and totally incomplete. The Padres drafts and draft philosophy has been great. It all comes down to $$. Other teams will take risks and pay players even if they aren't producing in the moment, or if they have a history of injury. The Padres never do. They trade players before their big contracts come up and hope that they have a poor season the next to "justify" their trade. For every Kevin Kouzmanoff that falls off after we trade him, there is a Woody Williams that has an all star season. Ryan Ludwick had a hell of a season last year, he would have been in the heart of our lineup. Other teams would have known his potential and taken the risk and kept him but we can "NEVER AFFORD" to take any risks and it's bull$#!+. |
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Post by AztecBill on Feb 13, 2013 16:30:26 GMT -8
They go on and on about the Peavy trade and don't consider for a second that it may have been a baseball decision. Writing the history of the Padres new ownership at this point is a little premature. Adam trade was good for the Padres Robbie Erlin and Joe Wieland are future parts of the Padres rotation. They act as if Ryan Ludwick was a stud for the Padres. The Padres got rid of him because he sucked. They only said about him that he was his highest paid player. The attacks on Padres drafts after 2009 are misleading and totally incomplete. The Padres drafts and draft philosophy has been great. It all comes down to $$. Other teams will take risks and pay players even if they aren't producing in the moment, or if they have a history of injury. The Padres never do. They trade players before their big contracts come up and hope that they have a poor season the next to "justify" their trade. For every Kevin Kouzmanoff that falls off after we trade him, there is a Woody Williams that has an all star season. Ryan Ludwick had a hell of a season last year, he would have been in the heart of our lineup. Other teams would have known his potential and taken the risk and kept him but we can "NEVER AFFORD" to take any risks and it's bull$#!+. We traded Ryan Ludwick after 7 weeks of the worst baseball the Padres have seen. That is saying a lot. Woody Williams was a transaction before Petco Park opened...so not the best example. Even then Woody was injured the next year and only pitched a half season for the Redbirds. The following year he was just average. The Padres history at Petco Park was fine until the divorce of John Moores. That killed the ability of the owner to field competative teams. That is the main problem with single owners (especially if they are married) who are not filthy rich. John was just rich...in baseball terms. My draft statment was more about their draft philosophy. I agree that the Drafts haven't been great although recently they have been good. But their draft philosophy of recent year's has been great. They have drafted a number of "unsignable" players in later rounds and signed them to first round money. |
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Post by AztecBill on Feb 13, 2013 16:35:37 GMT -8
They go on and on about the Peavy trade and don't consider for a second that it may have been a baseball decision. Writing the history of the Padres new ownership at this point is a little premature. Adam trade was good for the Padres Robbie Erlin and Joe Wieland are future parts of the Padres rotation. They act as if Ryan Ludwick was a stud for the Padres. The Padres got rid of him because he sucked. They only said about him that he was his highest paid player. The attacks on Padres drafts after 2009 are misleading and totally incomplete. The Padres drafts and draft philosophy has been great. Bill, you and I both know that the entire operation has been a sh*tshow since the minute Prop C passed. Prop "C" passed and then John Moores was put through hell by lawsuits that delayed the opening of Petco Park by 2 years. That was a lot of money lost that could have been better spent on the Padres. But even with that the Padres won half the NL West titles in the first 6 years Petco Park was open. And was one game away from winning half the NL West titles in the first 8 years. That was after 5 years of being near last place in the "Q". Things were on a good track until the divorce. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2013 12:47:58 GMT -8
It all comes down to $$. Other teams will take risks and pay players even if they aren't producing in the moment, or if they have a history of injury. The Padres never do. They trade players before their big contracts come up and hope that they have a poor season the next to "justify" their trade. For every Kevin Kouzmanoff that falls off after we trade him, there is a Woody Williams that has an all star season. Ryan Ludwick had a hell of a season last year, he would have been in the heart of our lineup. Other teams would have known his potential and taken the risk and kept him but we can "NEVER AFFORD" to take any risks and it's bull$#!+. We traded Ryan Ludwick after 7 weeks of the worst baseball the Padres have seen. That is saying a lot. Woody Williams was a transaction before Petco Park opened...so not the best example. Even then Woody was injured the next year and only pitched a half season for the Redbirds. The following year he was just average. The Padres history at Petco Park was fine until the divorce of John Moores. That killed the ability of the owner to field competative teams. That is the main problem with single owners (especially if they are married) who are not filthy rich. John was just rich...in baseball terms. My draft statment was more about their draft philosophy. I agree that the Drafts haven't been great although recently they have been good. But their draft philosophy of recent year's has been great. They have drafted a number of "unsignable" players in later rounds and signed them to first round money. So how many more losing seasons with an extremely low payroll will it take for you to finally start holding ownership accountable? |
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Post by Section T(urn Up) on Feb 15, 2013 11:19:16 GMT -8
It's interesting how perceptions vary on the Padres. Right now, I think the Padres are moving in the right direction. There's a lot of angst on here regarding keeping free agents and developing talent--but objectively the farm system is definitely looking like a bright spot right now and there's some decent talent at the ML level.
I'm not predicting a World Series appearance in the next couple years or anything, but the Padres definitely have the pieces to build around moving forward. The only highly questionable thing this front office has done, to my recollection, was acquiring Cashner for Rizzo. That move could backfire and in my opinion the Padres gave up too quick on Rizzo and it doesn't feel like they got 100 cents on the dollar in that deal. However, Cashner has shown signs of being a frontline guy (maybe not an ace but a #2) so maybe it does work out?
Either way, it's strange to me to hear such strong opinions from some regarding 'supporting the Padres' etc. I don't attend SDSU baseball games because I don't want to support the product. If they hired a new head coach and went a different direction I'd be in for at least a couple season tickets. Seems like the Padres new(ish) front office and newer ownership group deserve a shot. There is light at the end of the tunnel.
*Should be noted I moved here in '05 to go to State and I am not a Padres fan, so I have no emotional ties and less familiarity with any team pre-'06.*
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2013 11:33:43 GMT -8
It's interesting how perceptions vary on the Padres. Right now, I think the Padres are moving in the right direction. There's a lot of angst on here regarding keeping free agents and developing talent--but objectively the farm system is definitely looking like a bright spot right now and there's some decent talent at the ML level. I'm not predicting a World Series appearance in the next couple years or anything, but the Padres definitely have the pieces to build around moving forward. The only highly questionable thing this front office has done, to my recollection, was acquiring Cashner for Rizzo. That move could backfire and in my opinion the Padres gave up too quick on Rizzo and it doesn't feel like they got 100 cents on the dollar in that deal. However, Cashner has shown signs of being a frontline guy (maybe not an ace but a #2) so maybe it does work out? Either way, it's strange to me to hear such strong opinions from some regarding 'supporting the Padres' etc. I don't attend SDSU baseball games because I don't want to support the product. If they hired a new head coach and went a different direction I'd be in for at least a couple season tickets. Seems like the Padres new(ish) front office and newer ownership group deserve a shot. There is light at the end of the tunnel. *Should be noted I moved here in '05 to go to State and I am not a Padres fan, so I have no emotional ties and less familiarity with any team pre-'06.* Building through the draft requires very minimal financial commitment. It's what every team strives to do. Having good young talent is an indication of a strength in the scouting department, not a commitment from the owners to contribute a reasonable financial amount to the team. We may end up making the playoffs soon as a result of our young talent, what is bull$#!+ is once that young talent becomes free agents we are almost certainly going to trade them just like we did Gonzalez and Peavy. |
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Post by Section T(urn Up) on Feb 15, 2013 15:19:47 GMT -8
It's interesting how perceptions vary on the Padres. Right now, I think the Padres are moving in the right direction. There's a lot of angst on here regarding keeping free agents and developing talent--but objectively the farm system is definitely looking like a bright spot right now and there's some decent talent at the ML level. I'm not predicting a World Series appearance in the next couple years or anything, but the Padres definitely have the pieces to build around moving forward. The only highly questionable thing this front office has done, to my recollection, was acquiring Cashner for Rizzo. That move could backfire and in my opinion the Padres gave up too quick on Rizzo and it doesn't feel like they got 100 cents on the dollar in that deal. However, Cashner has shown signs of being a frontline guy (maybe not an ace but a #2) so maybe it does work out? Either way, it's strange to me to hear such strong opinions from some regarding 'supporting the Padres' etc. I don't attend SDSU baseball games because I don't want to support the product. If they hired a new head coach and went a different direction I'd be in for at least a couple season tickets. Seems like the Padres new(ish) front office and newer ownership group deserve a shot. There is light at the end of the tunnel. *Should be noted I moved here in '05 to go to State and I am not a Padres fan, so I have no emotional ties and less familiarity with any team pre-'06.* Building through the draft requires very minimal financial commitment. It's what every team strives to do. Having good young talent is an indication of a strength in the scouting department, not a commitment from the owners to contribute a reasonable financial amount to the team. We may end up making the playoffs soon as a result of our young talent, what is bull$#!+ is once that young talent becomes free agents we are almost certainly going to trade them just like we did Gonzalez and Peavy. Obviously you're right about every team trying to build through the draft and the financial commitment it is indicative of. However, you have nothing to base the opinion that the Padres will trade their next great players before they are FAs because this ownership group hasn't gotten to that point yet. I said at the beginning of the off-season that there really wasn't any way to evaluate the ownership before a couple years down the line because the product at the ML level could be pretty good this year. I think the Pads are pretty set in the OF, 3B, 1B, and C. I certainly think their players at those positions could "be here" when they are targeting their run. I don't think Everth Cabrera and Logan Forsythe are first division talents but there wasn't really anybody viable on the market at those positions. Essentially, none of the possible moves the Padres could have made would make sense at this point. It's bad timing because the new owners obviously weren't going to come in like the Magic group in LA, and trying to spend for minor upgrades at positions you already have viable young talent is obviously foolish. I don't blame Padre fans for being skeptical and cynical, I just think there's not really anything to indicate what *this* ownership group will do. So far, I like what they haven't done. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2013 17:42:15 GMT -8
We traded Ryan Ludwick after 7 weeks of the worst baseball the Padres have seen. Says the man who thinks Will Venable needs ten years to prove he's a starting ML outfielder. LOL |
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Post by Section T(urn Up) on Feb 19, 2013 12:43:50 GMT -8
However, you have nothing to base the opinion that the Padres will trade their next great players before they are FAs because this ownership group hasn't gotten to that point yet. You didn't ask me, but here's my take. We have every reason to believe that nothing will change. Ron Fowler doesn't have the money to pull this off. Relative to me (and probably most people) he's quite wealthy but a local beer distributor (who drinks as much of the stuff as he sells) doesn't have the kind of cake necessary to be running a legitimate MLB franchise. No one in that ownership group has the money to do it. I don't know enough about the situation to comment on whether the current ownership "has the money" to keep free agents from leaving. I would posit that it is highly unlikely that the sale would have gone through MLB on the heels of the McCourt divorce if the O'Malley group were actually as strapped as you seem to think. I don't know that you're wrong, I just don't know how you could have such a strong stance with as little information as I presume you have. I don't think it takes *that* much money to do what the Rays are doing. They locked up Evan Longoria to a long term deal. They probably won't do the same with David Price but a small market team realistically should be careful with "keeping" free agents. I have a hunch that if the Padres signed Adrian Gonzalez to a Joey Votto/Ryan Howard/Troy Tulowitzky deal it wouldn't necessarily be seen as a great move in 2015. Or if they had signed Peavy and dealt with the injuries/struggles etc that he is just now bouncing back from, would they really be more competitive? I get wanting an owner like a Mark Cuban who (I assume) will spend as much as it takes to win--but it's not like the Padres are the Marlins either. |
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Post by AztecBill on Feb 19, 2013 14:19:11 GMT -8
We traded Ryan Ludwick after 7 weeks of the worst baseball the Padres have seen. Says the man who thinks Will Venable needs ten years to prove he's a starting ML outfielder. The Padres offense and defense in right field last year was above major league average. Fixing the Padres should be directed at positions where they are getting below average production. Look at this link very carefully. Note that the Padres were #8 in MLB (#1 in the NL West) in OPS by their right field. Also consider that half their games were played at Petco Park and these are raw numbers i.g. not adjusted for ball park. The Padres right fielders also excelled in offensive stats not included in OPS - #2 Stolen Bases
- #4 fewest hit into Double play
- #2 fewest strikeouts (included although I don't think it matters)
Not that I don't expect John to acknowledge or even consider the information. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2013 13:04:31 GMT -8
Says the man who thinks Will Venable needs ten years to prove he's a starting ML outfielder. The Padres offense and defense in right field last year was above major league average. Fixing the Padres should be directed at positions where they are getting below average production. Look at this link very carefully. Note that the Padres were #8 in MLB (#1 in the NL West) in OPS by their right field. Also consider that half their games were played at Petco Park and these are raw numbers i.g. not adjusted for ball park. The Padres right fielders also excelled in offensive stats not included in OPS - #2 Stolen Bases
- #4 fewest hit into Double play
- #2 fewest strikeouts (included although I don't think it matters)
Not that I don't expect John to acknowledge or even consider the information. Will Venable hit with .264 with 9 HR and 45 RBIs and a .335 OBP. Who cares about what other Padres right fielders did?! And fewest =hit into double plays and strikeouts don't make a $#!+ of a difference. Will Venable is at best a 4th out fielder on any good team. You are such a blind homer it baffles me how much time you put into trying to convince people that the padres are some how a good team WHEN WE CLEARLY SUCK. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2013 20:16:14 GMT -8
The Padres offense and defense in right field last year was above major league average. Fixing the Padres should be directed at positions where they are getting below average production. Look at this link very carefully. Note that the Padres were #8 in MLB (#1 in the NL West) in OPS by their right field. Also consider that half their games were played at Petco Park and these are raw numbers i.g. not adjusted for ball park. The Padres right fielders also excelled in offensive stats not included in OPS - #2 Stolen Bases
- #4 fewest hit into Double play
- #2 fewest strikeouts (included although I don't think it matters)
Not that I don't expect John to acknowledge or even consider the information. Will Venable hit with .264 with 9 HR and 45 RBIs and a .335 OBP. Who cares about what other Padres right fielders did?! And fewest =hit into double plays and strikeouts don't make a $#!+ of a difference. Will Venable is at best a 4th out fielder on any good team. You are such a blind homer it baffles me how much time you put into trying to convince people that the padres are some how a good team WHEN WE CLEARLY SUCK. That to me is about right. Most of these guys (yes even Padres) are major leaguers for a reason. They do some things relatively well. Some may hit righties or lefties well. Some may play above average defense and have a good zone rating. Some may have good home or road splits. Others yet may hit really well in effing night games. The point is, the Padres of the last 3 to 5 years have failed to consistently field a complete team of productive major league talent. They continue to produce losing seasons, traded away their star player in his prime without making a legitimate effort to resign him, and baffled many casual fans AND baseball insiders by gifting Anthony Rizzo to their buddies in Chicago for Andrew Cashner, a solid starting pitcher with some question marks. This was after Rizzo was absolutely raking in the minor leagues at a very young age. Whether or not Rizzo develops into a star or even a regular starter remains to be seen, but I am convinced the Padres moved him without shopping him for the best available package. It's worth noting Rizzo hit 15 HR with an .800 OPS in 87 major league games last season. Cashner was solid, and actually pitched better away from Petco. That's a rarity. Ideally, he'll become a good 2 or 3 starter. I don't see him as an ace at all. I did like the Reds trade involving Latos. Volquez is a good starting pitcher when healthy, and we needed the infusion of bats it brought us. It sucks losing Grandal for 50 games, but it is what it is. I think he has a bright future. Alonso also. A team in San Diego should not have a bottom 5 payroll. It's not a great market but it's a healthy one, and Petco will draw 2.5 to 2.8 million fans a year to see a winning team. It's not like fan bases in Oakland or Tampa Bay that won't pay to see a playoff team. I can understand not splurging on risky mega free agents but you have to sprinkle in some veteran talent and not just hope and pray the kids work out. We all know you're lucky if even 2 out of 5 top prospects become productive major leaguers. All clubs are getting an estimated $27MM or so in extra revenue starting next season from the new national TV contract. Hell, the Indians went out and spent $48MM on Michael Bourn and about the same on Nick Swisher. Swisher would have been a damn good addition to this team, as he can play 1B and RF just fine, and is a great clubhouse guy. Here's to the future.... |
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