New Playoff System

[bio71]

CIFSDS has reorganized the way high school teams will compete for Championships:

www.eastcountysports.com/main/2012-13/prep/baseball.shtml

There will be an "open" division in addition to the other other five divisions.

The 2013 open division for football will be composed of the following eight teams:

Open Division
• 8 teams; 8 advance to playoffs.
Oceanside, HELIX, Eastlake, Mission Hills, La Costa Canyon, Poway, STEELE CANYON, Torrey Pines.

Why have leagues?

This means four powerhouse teams' seasons will end in the first round of the playoffs. There goes attendance for the remaining games.

Anyone liking this plan?

[enriquesdsualum]

Steele Canyon rated higher than Cathedral?

[kaztec]

Hate it! I think it penalizes schools that have good programs.

And no, Steele Canyon is not rated higher than Cathedral. They put a rule in that a school could not move up more than 2 divisions.

[theman]

Jan 25, 2013 16:51:42 GMT -8 kaztec said:

Hate it! I think it penalizes schools that have good programs.

And no, Steele Canyon is not rated higher than Cathedral. They put a rule in that a school could not move up more than 2 divisions.

I believe I read that Cathedral's AD said that moving his school up 2 divisions was not enough, and they are going to apply to move up even more.

[The Aztec Panther]

I don't like having only 8 teams in the Open division. They should have gone with at least 12 (with 8 making the playoffs) or with 16. With all 8 teams making the playoffs they could end up with teams with a losing record in the playoffs (teams often fall off after a championship season when they lose a lot of key seniors).

[aztecinoz]

How do they determine who is in the open division?

[San Diego Football Fan]

Here's a system I would like to see put in place. I'm sure it has its flaws since im no expert, but I think it would be more fair than what we have now.

Two Divisions, Two Playoffs

Division I (2012 Division I-IV Teams)
24 Team Playoff (13 league champs, 11 At-Large)
4 six-team Regional Brackets (North, East, South, City)
First Round Bye for top seeded teams

Division II (2012 Division V Teams)
8 Team Playoff (5 league champs, 3 At-Large)

Teams can be promoted and demoted from divisions yearly based on performance.
Cut the regular season down to seven or eight games.
League alignments and 8-man football remains the same.
At-Large bids, seeding, and D-I "Final Four" match-ups decided by playoff committee on selection day.
Division I & II playoff champions qualify for a possible selection to the state playoffs.

Estimated playoff berths based on 2012 regular season results:

Division I Bracket
i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h358/sdfootballfan/playoffpurposalbracket_zps81a29bf2.png

North County

Avocado East: Mission Hills (8-2)
Avocado West: Oceanside (9-1)
Palomar: Poway (8-2)
Valley: Valley Center (6-4)
At-Large: La Costa Canyon (7-3)
At-Large: San Pasqual (6-4)

City

City: Serra (7-3)
Eastern: Cathedral (8-2)
Western: Madison (9-1)
Central: University City (6-4)
At-Large: St. Augustine (8-2)
At-Large: Lincoln (6-4)

South Bay

Metro Mesa: Olympian (10-0)
Metro Pacific: Mater Dei (7-2)
Metro South Bay: Mar Vista (7-3)
At-Large: Eastlake (6-3)
At-Large: Otay Ranch (6-4)
At-Large: Chula Vista (6-4)

East County

Grossmont Hills: Helix (9-1)
Grossmont Valley: Mount Miguel (6-4)
At-Large: Valhalla (7-3)
At-Large: Grossmont (8-2)
At-Large: Steele Canyon (5-6-1)
At-Large: Monte Vista (6-4)

Division II Bracket
i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h358/sdfootballfan/playoffpurposalbracketDII_zps8469d77e.png

Imperial Valley: Brawley (9-1)
Manzanita: Calipatria (8-2)
Citrus: Calvary Christian Academy (9-1)
Coastal: Santa Fe Christian (7-3)
Pacific: Army-Navy (10-0)
At-Large: Tri-City Christian (7-2)
At-Large: Mountain Empire (7-3)
At-Large: Francis Parker (6-4)

Championship Games

Division II Championship
The winner earns consideration for a promotion to Division I.

San Diego Section Championship
The winner will be the undisputed best team in the county.

[aztecryan]

I like it. Powerhouse schools, especially in football (which is what drove this, IMO) deserve to play each other. Charter/private schools should not be facing public schools.

[aztecwin]

You can look at this idea in a number of ways. It penalizes some small enrollment schools with powerhouse programs. On the other hand it let those powerhouse programs play better competition. Lots of other ways to see it as well. I am a wait and see kind of guy.

[bio71]

Quote from East County Sports article:

"Out of sheer brilliance the Open Division champion, according to Schniepp, will be designated the section champion. The other winners will simply be called division winners (which shows what he thinks about it). "

How does this fit in with the state playoffs?

Will the division winners still be eligible for state playoff consideration?

[kaztec]

Here is the link to the SD CIF web page, with the proposal that was passed and the divisions for Spring sports for this year and for Fall sports for the 2013-2014 school year.

www.cifsds.org/index.php/coaches

[La Mesa Aztec]

Jan 26, 2013 2:13:57 GMT -8 San Diego Football Fan said:

Here's a system I would like to see put in place. I'm sure it has its flaws since im no expert, but I think it would be more fair than what we have now.

Two Divisions, Two Playoffs

Division I (2012 Division I-IV Teams)
24 Team Playoff (13 league champs, 11 At-Large)
4 six-team Regional Brackets (North, East, South, City)
First Round Bye for top seeded teams

Division II (2012 Division V Teams)
8 Team Playoff (5 league champs, 3 At-Large)

I like this, and it is very similar to what was in place prior to 1979. Back then, most schools were in the 2A division and the tiny ones were in 1A. In 2A there were 16 teams in the playoffs so 24 seems reasonable now given population growth.

The champion of 2A was considered the county champion and it really meant something. Not the many "champions" of today. The playoffs are way too inclusive now. They should be a reward for an outstanding season.

It will never happen though because the thought of fewer kids feeling special is unimaginable today.

[La Mesa Aztec]

Open division is a stupid idea. Why play the regular season for these schools?

[bio71]

Jan 27, 2013 18:22:55 GMT -8 kaztec said:

Here is the link to the SD CIF web page, with the proposal that was passed and the divisions for Spring sports for this year and for Fall sports for the 2013-2014 school year.

www.cifsds.org/index.php/coaches

Kaztec thanks for posting the link. The background material explained the reorganization plan. I pretty much agreed with the competitive playoff groups produced by the football weighted rankings: (except Cathedral should be in the Open Division)

Open Division

Oceanside------1.95
Helix------------3.80
Eastlake--------6.50
Mission Hills----6.65
La Costa Cny---9.40
Poway---------10.30
Steele Cny----15.50
Torrey Pines---16.40

Division I

Cathedral-------4.00
Valhalla--------16.90
Olympian------18.00
Lincoln---------18.80
Carlsbad-------19.30
Point Loma----20.00
Vista-----------20.40
San Pasqual---20.60
Grossmont-----22.80
Mira Mesa------23.90
El Camino------25.60
Ramona--------26.40
West View------26.70
Otay Ranch-----29.50
Mount Carmel--30.70
Chula Vista-----33.90

This should make for some great playoff games.

[The Aztec Panther]

I still think that an 8 team division where ALL the teams make the playoffs is stupid.

It should be a 12 team division where the top 8 teams make the playoffs.

[Zuma]

I like this in theory, but would have preferred for the open division to have been determined after the season. It would be just as arbitrary to do it then rather than before, since it is based on rankings. Then the top 8 teams are given an invite to the open playoffs. Allow them to compete in their section playoffs as well, with the caveat that they get a first round bye there, and if they lose at the open, they have to play the highest ranked team left in their divisions pool. I don't know it would be convoluted, but some statistics genius could work out a plan

[dshawfan]

Feb 3, 2013 0:03:58 GMT -8 The Aztec Panther said:

I still think that an 8 team division where ALL the teams make the playoffs is stupid.

It should be a 12 team division where the top 8 teams make the playoffs.

But then you are leaving 4 of the best teams in SD out of the playoffs.

What they have created is the CST Playoffs:

Open = Advanced
1 = Proficient
2 = Basic
3 = Below Basic
4 = Far Below Basic

What I've been wondering is their reasoning in not using their rankings as the sole basis for what division you are placed. There is no reason I can see that a team like Cathedral is not in the Open Division. They are one of the top programs in SD and have earned the right to be placed in that division;however, CIF has decided that you can jump no more than 2 divisions no matter your ranking.

[The Aztec Panther]

Feb 3, 2013 21:45:55 GMT -8 dshawfan said:

Feb 3, 2013 0:03:58 GMT -8 The Aztec Panther said:

I still think that an 8 team division where ALL the teams make the playoffs is stupid.

It should be a 12 team division where the top 8 teams make the playoffs.

But then you are leaving 4 of the best teams in SD out of the playoffs.

Not always true.

Vista was in THREE Championship games in a row and would have easily been in the Open Division this last season. They went 2-8 in 2012 as they lost most of their linemen from the year before and started a number of sophomores. Does a 2-8 team belong in the playoffs?

The bottom 4 teams in a 12 team Open Division would likely get smoked in the playoffs anyway, and of the 12 teams odds are that at least one or two of them would have a down/rebuilding year with a losing record.

Trust me, we're going to see teams with losing records in the Open Division this year or next. And those teams will get smoked in the playoffs.

The system will work better on paper than in practice.

[bio71]

The methodology used by CIFSDS for ranking the teams is interesting:

From the Proposal (http://www.cifsds.org/index.php/coaches)

1. Each year, at the end of each season in the sports listed below, teams will be ranked based on a history of data that is weighted, and will be placed in divisions based on that weighted ranking. Years will be weighted as follows and will be adjusted annually:

2012 35%
2011 30%
2010 20%
2009 10%
2008 5%

2. *MaxPreps rankings, over a period of the most recent 5 years, will be utilized for the following sports:
Football Girls Volleyball Boys Basketball Girls Basketball Baseball

[kaztec]

Feb 5, 2013 16:59:59 GMT -8 The Aztec Panther said:

Feb 3, 2013 21:45:55 GMT -8 dshawfan said:

But then you are leaving 4 of the best teams in SD out of the playoffs.

Not always true.

Vista was in THREE Championship games in a row and would have easily been in the Open Division this last season. They went 2-8 in 2012 as they lost most of their linemen from the year before and started a number of sophomores. Does a 2-8 team belong in the playoffs?

The bottom 4 teams in a 12 team Open Division would likely get smoked in the playoffs anyway, and of the 12 teams odds are that at least one or two of them would have a down/rebuilding year with a losing record.

Trust me, we're going to see teams with losing records in the Open Division this year or next. And those teams will get smoked in the playoffs.

The system will work better on paper than in practice.

I have to agree with you here Erik. Even "good" programs will have years where they graduate a bunch of starters and the juniors are not ready to fill their shoes. That is the nature of HS sports, and I believe is the problem of basing current Div. on previous years results, esp. results as much as 5 years removed.