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Post by gocoaztec on Jan 30, 2013 18:47:22 GMT -8
www.remappingdebate.org/article/tale-two-systemsWhen looking at the world economy as a whole, we are doing well. Germany is doing better. They do things very different than us in many ways. Strong unions are part and parcel to their economy and protected by law, high wages, high taxes, strong safety net. According to conseratives this is a recipe for economic disaster, yet Germany has profitable companys, an advanced economy, and lower unemployment rate than us. How is this possible, cons? Here's another look at Europe's (including Germany's) long term economic prospects. This might not be the model that we want to emulate, but we seem to be doing a pretty good job of heading down the same road. www.businessinsider.com/slowest-growing-countries-2011-2#
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Post by aztec70 on Jan 31, 2013 8:23:15 GMT -8
www.remappingdebate.org/article/tale-two-systemsWhen looking at the world economy as a whole, we are doing well. Germany is doing better. They do things very different than us in many ways. Strong unions are part and parcel to their economy and protected by law, high wages, high taxes, strong safety net. According to conseratives this is a recipe for economic disaster, yet Germany has profitable companys, an advanced economy, and lower unemployment rate than us. How is this possible, cons? Here's another look at Europe's (including Germany's) long term economic prospects. This might not be the model that we want to emulate, but we seem to be doing a pretty good job of heading down the same road. www.businessinsider.com/slowest-growing-countries-2011-2#Get back to me in 2050.
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Post by gocoaztec on Jan 31, 2013 18:46:48 GMT -8
Cute, but you asked a question and I gave you an answer. Europe is falling apart, it is not the correct model to follow if we want a prosperous future for America.
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Post by aztec70 on Jan 31, 2013 22:27:50 GMT -8
Cute, but you asked a question and I gave you an answer. Europe is falling apart, it is not the correct model to follow if we want a prosperous future for America. It was a much worse condition in 1946. My was comment was not meant to be cute. I am pointing the futility of predicting that far in the future. Your answer, if you are depending on that article as being your answer, is nonresponsive.
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Post by aztecwin on Feb 1, 2013 9:14:51 GMT -8
Many things can change over the years and these long range projections are pretty iffy. I would suggest that due to population alone that the idea the the overall economies of China and India would overtake the US is likely but our per capita outlook is much brighter if we can get our debt in check.
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Post by gocoaztec on Feb 2, 2013 17:52:50 GMT -8
Cute, but you asked a question and I gave you an answer. Europe is falling apart, it is not the correct model to follow if we want a prosperous future for America. It was a much worse condition in 1946. My was comment was not meant to be cute. I am pointing the futility of predicting that far in the future. Your answer, if you are depending on that article as being your answer, is nonresponsive. If you don't like predictions of future performance (the only real way to analyze any proposed change to a system), then let's look at the past: www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?c=gm&v=66www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?v=66&c=us&l=enInteresting. The US economy soundly outperformed the German economy until 2008 -- I wonder what happened that year? Maybe we should see how we compare on a per capita basis? www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?v=67&c=gm&l=enwww.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?c=us&v=67Hummmm....it looks like we're doing a bit better per capita, as well. Does Germany have some advantages? Yes, here's one of them: www.tradingeconomics.com/germany/government-debt-to-gdpwww.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/government-debt-to-gdpIt looks like we in a comparable position in 2008 and them something happened to us. I wonder what happened in 2008? You don't like predictions, but those who have enough money to make a difference rely on them. It seems from my on-line searches that virtually all the economic experts predict that the US economy will out perform the German economy in the future. I say "virtually" since I have to believe that there is at least one economist who believes that the German economy will out perform the US economy, especially since our economy is so terrible and it looks like it will only get worse for the next 4 years. Can you post a link to a legitimate economic forecast that predicts Germany will out perform the US? In any case, there is no empirical reason to believe that our adoption of the German "model" would improve our overall economic condition.
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Post by aztec70 on Feb 2, 2013 22:08:19 GMT -8
Wow. That must have taken some time. I have nothing against predictions. I just don't put much faith in ones that stretch ahead two generatons. It seems you are hung up on GDP. That is important, but for me I am interested in a bigger picture that includes more than just GDP. Society is more than an economy.
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Post by gocoaztec on Feb 14, 2013 16:51:20 GMT -8
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Post by aztecwin on Feb 15, 2013 8:43:33 GMT -8
Wow! Very interesting web site. Play around there awhile and you will see even with stronger economies performing better we are still very interdependent. I can see why currency manipulation is a very powerful tool with cutting edges on both sides of the blade. For us here in the States, the FED and currency backed by something other than Gold (or the like) is a huge problem.
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Post by AztecWilliam on Feb 25, 2013 22:51:15 GMT -8
Germany has many admirable qualities that contribute to their success. They also had the good fortune to lose WWII to the U.S.A. Seriously, there was a credible threat of Soviet expansion westward which we (and, of course, NATO) prevented. The Germans have been able to save a lot of money by relying on American taxpayers' ability to fund a strong military establishment. Bottom line: it's foolish to look at another country and say, "If we were only like they are, our problems would be over." One issue is unionization. I'm no expert, but I believe it's true that the unions in Germany have traditionally been much more clear thinking than those in the U.S. Up until recently, private sector unions in the U.S. had an us-against-them attitude with respect to management. And our management has been pretty second-rate in a lot of cases, too. Think of a football playbook. You can give two teams the same plays, but if one set of players is markedly superior to the other set, the results will not be the same. We have to fashion our own successful playbook. It's one thing for Germans to succeed with a German playbook. It's another for Americans to try to succeed with that same German playbook. And, let's not forget, one ought to think very carefully before placing a bet that the Germans will not have lots of problems of their own in the years ahead. Azwm
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Post by AlwaysAnAztec on Feb 26, 2013 16:23:14 GMT -8
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Post by aztecwin on Feb 28, 2013 15:56:41 GMT -8
Just where in the private sector in the US has the attitude and culture that makes unions in Germany work exist here? I will not even entertain any argument or discussion of public sector union success in the US.
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Post by AlwaysAnAztec on Mar 1, 2013 10:19:10 GMT -8
I will not even entertain any argument or discussion of public sector union success in the US. Yes your majesty
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Post by aztecwin on Mar 1, 2013 18:36:42 GMT -8
I will not even entertain any argument or discussion of public sector union success in the US. Yes your majesty Because it is stupid!
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