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Post by AztecBill on Mar 12, 2012 17:01:42 GMT -8
Baseball Prospectus is the bible for many baseball fans. It is by far the most through evaluator of baseball around. Accounding to BP: The Padres rank first in 2012 Organizational Rankings System At a Glance: They might lack that one marquee name, but no system in baseball can boast of having as many players at the upper levels who project as average or better big leaguers.
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Post by aztecron on Mar 13, 2012 9:11:00 GMT -8
Baseball Prospectus is the bible for many baseball fans. It is by far the most through evaluator of baseball around. Accounding to BP: The Padres rank first in 2012 Organizational Rankings System At a Glance: They might lack that one marquee name, but no system in baseball can boast of having as many players at the upper levels who project as average or better big leaguers.And, that review is without Alonzo, Grandal and Boxberger added into the system.
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Post by aztecron on Mar 13, 2012 9:38:10 GMT -8
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2012 16:12:11 GMT -8
Baseball Prospectus is the bible for many baseball fans. It is by far the most through evaluator of baseball around. Accounding to BP: The Padres rank first in 2012 Organizational Rankings System At a Glance: They might lack that one marquee name, but no system in baseball can boast of having as many players at the upper levels who project as average or better big leaguers.Bill, that's all fine and dandy. However, paying and keeping the great prospects seems to be the big problem for this organization. If it's anything like the past, then you know the drill.
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Mar 13, 2012 20:41:37 GMT -8
Baseball Prospectus is the bible for many baseball fans. It is by far the most through evaluator of baseball around. Accounding to BP: The Padres rank first in 2012 Organizational Rankings System At a Glance: They might lack that one marquee name, but no system in baseball can boast of having as many players at the upper levels who project as average or better big leaguers.Bill, that's all fine and dandy. However, paying and keeping the great prospects seems to be the big problem for this organization. If it's anything like the past, then you know the drill. Yep. Having a great minor league system only makes a difference if you KEEP those players that develop into top notch major leaguers. If the team continues to be a AAAA team for the top 10 teams in the leave (by revenue) then it means nothing to the Padres fans. Just when we get attached to a great player he's gone. I can't follow a team like that. Give me players I can follow and continue to follow for more than just a couple years and I'll be interested. Watching the players I enjoy going somewhere else and helping that team contend? Not acceptable, and absolutely no fun.
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Post by AztecBill on Mar 14, 2012 10:24:37 GMT -8
Baseball Prospectus is the bible for many baseball fans. It is by far the most through evaluator of baseball around. Accounding to BP: The Padres rank first in 2012 Organizational Rankings System At a Glance: They might lack that one marquee name, but no system in baseball can boast of having as many players at the upper levels who project as average or better big leaguers.Bill, that's all fine and dandy. However, paying and keeping the great prospects seems to be the big problem for this organization. If it's anything like the past, then you know the drill. So show me the long list of players we developed and traded. Peavy (We are better off) Latos (Padres increased salary with the trade. It was a baseball trade and not a payroll issue) AGon (although we got him through a trade that you probably woudn't have done since we traded a type of player that you are screaming for us to sign long term) Who else? We just signed Maybin long term and are about to sign Hundley. We have never been in the position we are in now - NEVER.
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Post by aztecron on Mar 14, 2012 13:02:59 GMT -8
Thank you, AB. My sentiments exactly. As I was reading AztecPanther Erik's post I was thinking the same thing. What "great minor league system" did we have in the past five to 10 years?
We've just started this process of investing in our minor league system the last three years or so. We're signing our young talent now that we have some young talent that is showing talent at an early age where we can gain some monetary benefit as an organization and give some security to an up and coming ball player.
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Post by AztecBill on Mar 14, 2012 14:14:55 GMT -8
Thank you, AB. My sentiments exactly. As I was reading AztecPanther Erik's post I was thinking the same thing. What "great minor league system" did we have in the past five to 10 years? We've just started this process of investing in our minor league system the last three years or so. We're signing our young talent now that we have some young talent that is showing talent at an early age where we can gain some monetary benefit as an organization and give some security to an up and coming ball player. Exactly. That is why I posted this table with the ratings over the past 3 years. Our minors went from three 4-star players in 2009 to nine 4-star players now. In 2009 we had 1 top 100 player according to Baseball America - now they say we have 6. Baseball Prospectus has us going from 3 to 10. We are just entering into the golden zone. The Tampa Bay Rays zone.
It is often hard to recognize change before the results are obvious.
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Mar 14, 2012 20:33:25 GMT -8
Thank you, AB. My sentiments exactly. As I was reading AztecPanther Erik's post I was thinking the same thing. What "great minor league system" did we have in the past five to 10 years? My point was merely this - ANY good players we've had over the last several years have been traded away or just allowed to leave via free agency. I don't know this team. I don't recognize the names. How can I, as a former fan, feel connected to this team? All I've seen over the last several years is a team that gives up on the idea of keeping talent. There are no players here long term. The Maybin signing maybe a good thing, but since I haven't followed the Padres closely I don't know if he's worth getting all that excited about. Is he going to hit over .300? Will he hit over 30 HRs? What is it about that guy that should get me excited? Gonzalez had me excited as a fan. When they traded him (and now it looks like we got suckered on that one) they traded away the last Padre I gave a damn about. But if we continue the same old same old and continue to be a AAAA team it won't matter. Where whe get the talent is irrelevant if we don't keep said talent. What's the difference? Getting Gonzo via trade or through our own system? We got him, and then when his price went up we let him go. That's the Padre way. And when they change that SOP I'll think about becoming a fan again.
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Post by aztecron on Mar 15, 2012 13:24:15 GMT -8
Thank you, AB. My sentiments exactly. As I was reading AztecPanther Erik's post I was thinking the same thing. What "great minor league system" did we have in the past five to 10 years? My point was merely this - ANY good players we've had over the last several years have been traded away or just allowed to leave via free agency. I don't know this team. I don't recognize the names. How can I, as a former fan, feel connected to this team? All I've seen over the last several years is a team that gives up on the idea of keeping talent. There are no players here long term. The Maybin signing maybe a good thing, but since I haven't followed the Padres closely I don't know if he's worth getting all that excited about. Is he going to hit over .300? Will he hit over 30 HRs? What is it about that guy that should get me excited? Gonzalez had me excited as a fan. When they traded him (and now it looks like we got suckered on that one) they traded away the last Padre I gave a damn about. But if we continue the same old same old and continue to be a AAAA team it won't matter. Where whe get the talent is irrelevant if we don't keep said talent. What's the difference? Getting Gonzo via trade or through our own system? We got him, and then when his price went up we let him go. That's the Padre way. And when they change that SOP I'll think about becoming a fan again. We aren't "continuing the same old same old" with this new standard of identifying young players early in their arbitration years and buying out one or two years of free agency. We haven't done this process as an organization before this year. This is the model the TB Rays have and continue to use to build, and the Indians did in the 90's with Kenny Lofton, Carlos Baerga and the like when they were perennial playoff contenders. I get you're upset with the Padres, I do. I am too. But, I can see a change in operation for this new regime, a change that is proven to work in MLB. Now it's a matter of will we continue this path, stick with it and make it work for us. I'm not going to blame Moorad for Moores issues running the Padres or for Werner's issues or whoever else ran the Padres into the ground throughout the years. Again I state and ask from a previous thread, when have you ever seen the Padres spend as much money in the draft as they have over the last three years? And by ever I truly mean since 1969, our entire existence. Answer: Never. If we make good with identifying kids early enough that we want to keep and signing them to contracts that buy out the first or second year of free agency we'll see these kids for at least seven or eight years in SD and maybe more. This regime isn't keeping a $43 million dollar payroll as Moores did and not investing in the draft as well. We have some young talent on the team this year that could be pretty exciting while having a full minor league system, for once. They're spending money at the big league level and investing a ton in the draft and player development, now.
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Post by aztecron on Mar 15, 2012 13:42:07 GMT -8
The Maybin signing maybe a good thing, but since I haven't followed the Padres closely I don't know if he's worth getting all that excited about. Is he going to hit over .300? Will he hit over 30 HRs? What is it about that guy that should get me excited?
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Mar 15, 2012 20:15:03 GMT -8
If the Pads aren't going to have any 30 HR guys they need a couple .300 type guys (and that shouldn't be hard to do at Petco).
They don't seem to have either, making for a rather lackluster offense, with a poor rotation (just called the worst in the majors by one preview). While the organization is showing some commitment there is still a ton of work to do.
If they can develop guys who can hit 30 HRs (and it can be done, even with home games at Petco - their opponents hit plenty of HRs there) and a couple guys at or around .300 - AND they keep them long term then I'll get excited about the team again.
Sandy Alderson really turned me off from Padres baseball. It wasn't about being smart (they're being a lot smarter now), it was about being cheap.
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Post by aztecron on Mar 16, 2012 12:19:48 GMT -8
If the Pads aren't going to have any 30 HR guys they need a couple .300 type guys (and that shouldn't be hard to do at Petco). They don't seem to have either, making for a rather lackluster offense, with a poor rotation (just called the worst in the majors by one preview). While the organization is showing some commitment there is still a ton of work to do. If they can develop guys who can hit 30 HRs (and it can be done, even with home games at Petco - their opponents hit plenty of HRs there) and a couple guys at or around .300 - AND they keep them long term then I'll get excited about the team again. Sandy Alderson really turned me off from Padres baseball. It wasn't about being smart (they're being a lot smarter now), it was about being cheap. I think Alonso could be a .300 hitter with 30 DBL's, 20 HR's a season kind of guy. Gyorko who is in the pipeline looks to be the same kind of hitter. Grandal looks like he has the potential to be somewhere in the same ballpark. Liriano looks like he might be a good hitter with some power and speed. I like our direction at present. It does remain to be seen if it proves out at the big league level or not. But, we have never, ever, been this flush with prospects in our minor league system. It'll be fun to see them progress and watch the team identify the players they want long term and see them signed to contracts that buy out a year or two of free agency. As for Alderson, I have no lost feelings for him. Glad he's off to the Mets to run that franchise into the ground.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2012 8:23:00 GMT -8
If the Pads aren't going to have any 30 HR guys they need a couple .300 type guys (and that shouldn't be hard to do at Petco). They don't seem to have either, making for a rather lackluster offense, with a poor rotation (just called the worst in the majors by one preview). While the organization is showing some commitment there is still a ton of work to do. If they can develop guys who can hit 30 HRs (and it can be done, even with home games at Petco - their opponents hit plenty of HRs there) and a couple guys at or around .300 - AND they keep them long term then I'll get excited about the team again. Sandy Alderson really turned me off from Padres baseball. It wasn't about being smart (they're being a lot smarter now), it was about being cheap. I think Alonso could be a .300 hitter with 30 DBL's, 20 HR's a season kind of guy. Gyorko who is in the pipeline looks to be the same kind of hitter. Grandal looks like he has the potential to be somewhere in the same ballpark. Liriano looks like he might be a good hitter with some power and speed. I like our direction at present. It does remain to be seen if it proves out at the big league level or not. But, we have never, ever, been this flush with prospects in our minor league system. It'll be fun to see them progress and watch the team identify the players they want long term and see them signed to contracts that buy out a year or two of free agency. As for Alderson, I have no lost feelings for him. Glad he's off to the Mets to run that franchise into the ground. Alderson and Fuson should receive some credit for drafting many of our prospects, and pushing the draft & development way when they were here.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2012 8:24:37 GMT -8
Again, this is much good news, and a positive sign. But much like the KC Royals oft-hyped stable of prospects, I'll be impressed when a few start producing at the big league level. Maybin wasn't developed here, so I am not counting him.
Anyways, I have high hopes for Alonso for sure.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2012 8:25:32 GMT -8
If the Pads aren't going to have any 30 HR guys they need a couple .300 type guys (and that shouldn't be hard to do at Petco). They don't seem to have either, making for a rather lackluster offense, with a poor rotation (just called the worst in the majors by one preview). While the organization is showing some commitment there is still a ton of work to do. If they can develop guys who can hit 30 HRs (and it can be done, even with home games at Petco - their opponents hit plenty of HRs there) and a couple guys at or around .300 - AND they keep them long term then I'll get excited about the team again. Sandy Alderson really turned me off from Padres baseball. It wasn't about being smart (they're being a lot smarter now), it was about being cheap. John Moores dictated the payroll and operation costs to Alderson. Moores owned the team. Alderson just implemented the plan.
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Post by aztecron on Mar 18, 2012 21:25:45 GMT -8
I think Alonso could be a .300 hitter with 30 DBL's, 20 HR's a season kind of guy. Gyorko who is in the pipeline looks to be the same kind of hitter. Grandal looks like he has the potential to be somewhere in the same ballpark. Liriano looks like he might be a good hitter with some power and speed. I like our direction at present. It does remain to be seen if it proves out at the big league level or not. But, we have never, ever, been this flush with prospects in our minor league system. It'll be fun to see them progress and watch the team identify the players they want long term and see them signed to contracts that buy out a year or two of free agency. As for Alderson, I have no lost feelings for him. Glad he's off to the Mets to run that franchise into the ground. Alderson and Fuson should receive some credit for drafting many of our prospects, and pushing the draft & development way when they were here. Yeah they get credit for a few players. The Padres are already moving away from the passive approach at the plate, instituted by Alderson and his crew, by now looking for a pitch to drive from the first pitch of the AB. Better organizational skills in the minor league and development staff now than previous, in my opinion.
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Post by aztecron on Mar 18, 2012 21:30:00 GMT -8
Again, this is much good news, and a positive sign. But much like the KC Royals oft-hyped stable of prospects, I'll be impressed when a few start producing at the big league level. Maybin wasn't developed here, so I am not counting him. Anyways, I have high hopes for Alonso for sure. I still think it takes scouting and development to find and produce players from within other organizations minor league systems. So they count in my opinion as they still need to be developed.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2012 21:34:11 GMT -8
Again, this is much good news, and a positive sign. But much like the KC Royals oft-hyped stable of prospects, I'll be impressed when a few start producing at the big league level. Maybin wasn't developed here, so I am not counting him. Anyways, I have high hopes for Alonso for sure. I still think it takes scouting and development to find and produce players from within other organizations minor league systems. So they count in my opinion as they still need to be developed. I guess you could, but he didnt spend any time in our minor league system. When he got here, he was plugged into a starting role. So why would you count that? I'm not looking for shortcuts, I am looking for guys that are drafted and developed into solid MLB regulars...because we have been missing that consistently for years. If the Padres are to contend for the long haul, that's what they have to do. Trading for reclamation projects, and trading stars for prospects, can only get you so far.
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Post by The Aztec Panther on Mar 18, 2012 23:11:27 GMT -8
If the Pads aren't going to have any 30 HR guys they need a couple .300 type guys (and that shouldn't be hard to do at Petco). They don't seem to have either, making for a rather lackluster offense, with a poor rotation (just called the worst in the majors by one preview). While the organization is showing some commitment there is still a ton of work to do. If they can develop guys who can hit 30 HRs (and it can be done, even with home games at Petco - their opponents hit plenty of HRs there) and a couple guys at or around .300 - AND they keep them long term then I'll get excited about the team again. Sandy Alderson really turned me off from Padres baseball. It wasn't about being smart (they're being a lot smarter now), it was about being cheap. John Moores dictated the payroll and operation costs to Alderson. Moores owned the team. Alderson just implemented the plan. That may be, but Alderson's been a proponent of low(er) payrolls wherever he's gone - and he's never won a WS. It's his M.O. - don't spend money, don't risk someone not living up to the expectations. No risk, no reward. I hated Alderson's philosophy whenever I heard him on the radio. Cheap, cheap, cheap - and not just by decree from above. It's what he believes in.
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