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Post by aztecwin on Jul 28, 2009 11:03:58 GMT -8
I might just as well get this going over here. www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=105233I heard O'Reilly claim that he had put this issue to rest, so either he has not got a grasp of the issue or does not understand the difference in the documents in question. I don't watch Dobbs, so I would not know if he is still on this or has his boss silenced him?
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Post by AlwaysAnAztec on Jul 28, 2009 13:32:40 GMT -8
OK, I'll bite... Again. FactCheck.Org laid this to rest last year. But, to be honest, I don't think a 'true believer' such as yourself would be convinced even if you were handed the actual birth certificate by a representative of the State of Hawaii. www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html
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Post by aztecwin on Jul 28, 2009 13:59:12 GMT -8
OK, I'll bite... Again. FactCheck.Org laid this to rest last year. But, to be honest, I don't think a 'true believer' such as yourself would be convinced even if you were handed the actual birth certificate by a representative of the State of Hawaii. www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.htmlI am getting closer to being convinced. Both Honolulu papers have shown birth announcements from their editions in 61. My biggest question now is why is Obama still resisting showing his long form birth certificate?
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Post by Bob Forsythe on Jul 28, 2009 14:13:04 GMT -8
Screw Dobbs, Pooh. CNN's head guy put out a memo telling Dobbs to mostly cool it. But I'll ask you this, Pooh. How do you explain the birth notices with the Obamas' address in two Honolulu papers? Of course, I know your response - that they weren't published until Aug. 13 so there was time to fly to Hawaii from Kenya and post them. Still, from a search, this revelation seems to have the conspiracy theorists of your ilk rather nervous. Man, Jon Stewart so took you guys apart: www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-july-22-2009/the-born-identityThe Hawaiian Governor, who is a Republican, says that he was born there. You have no traction, you have no argument and your troll on this is getting seriously old. But then again, you are an old troll, so it's not surprising. =Bob
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Post by aztecwin on Jul 28, 2009 15:30:30 GMT -8
Screw Dobbs, Pooh. CNN's head guy put out a memo telling Dobbs to mostly cool it. But I'll ask you this, Pooh. How do you explain the birth notices with the Obamas' address in two Honolulu papers? Of course, I know your response - that they weren't published until Aug. 13 so there was time to fly to Hawaii from Kenya and post them. Still, from a search, this revelation seems to have the conspiracy theorists of your ilk rather nervous. Man, Jon Stewart so took you guys apart: www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-july-22-2009/the-born-identityThe Hawaiian Governor, who is a Republican, says that he was born there. You have no traction, you have no argument and your troll on this is getting seriously old. But then again, you are an old troll, so it's not surprising. =Bob Suspicions confirmed! You don't read what is being said but post replies to what you think is being said. My main question now is why is Obama putting up such a fight about his long form birth certificate?
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Post by Bob Forsythe on Jul 28, 2009 17:06:25 GMT -8
Screw Dobbs, Pooh. CNN's head guy put out a memo telling Dobbs to mostly cool it. But I'll ask you this, Pooh. How do you explain the birth notices with the Obamas' address in two Honolulu papers? Of course, I know your response - that they weren't published until Aug. 13 so there was time to fly to Hawaii from Kenya and post them. Still, from a search, this revelation seems to have the conspiracy theorists of your ilk rather nervous. Man, Jon Stewart so took you guys apart: www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-july-22-2009/the-born-identityThe Hawaiian Governor, who is a Republican, says that he was born there. You have no traction, you have no argument and your troll on this is getting seriously old. But then again, you are an old troll, so it's not surprising. =Bob Suspicions confirmed! You don't read what is being said but post replies to what you think is being said. My main question now is why is Obama putting up such a fight about his long form birth certificate? Naah. Just means that you didn't watch the video and all you're really doing is trolling. Screw the "long form". Tell me why you don't accept the birth announcements in two Honolulu newspapers. You always avoid the facts that kill your arguments. And while you're at it, tell me why I should believe anything you offer from WND, which ain't anything more than an ideological World Weekly News (I'm waiting for WND to claim that Obama has flown over DC on an alien spaceship), while the Republican Governor of Hawaii has stated that he's seen the records and has no doubt that Obama was born in Hawaii. I'm sorry, Pooh, but you offer nothing other than reports from fascist on-line sources that wouldn't know the truth if it hit them squarely in the snout (and maybe if they were hit there, they'd STFU). You've received a beat down on this over and over. The only thing I'm waiting for from you is the claim that the government designed 9/11. You've become a total conspiracy whack job in your dotage. That would be the same dotage that tells you that you're shooting close to your age as you take mulligan after mulligan before you tank up on margaritas. =Bob
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Post by aztecwin on Jul 29, 2009 12:05:14 GMT -8
Suspicions confirmed! You don't read what is being said but post replies to what you think is being said. My main question now is why is Obama putting up such a fight about his long form birth certificate? Naah. Just means that you didn't watch the video and all you're really doing is trolling. Screw the "long form". Tell me why you don't accept the birth announcements in two Honolulu newspapers. You always avoid the facts that kill your arguments. And while you're at it, tell me why I should believe anything you offer from WND, which ain't anything more than an ideological World Weekly News (I'm waiting for WND to claim that Obama has flown over DC on an alien spaceship), while the Republican Governor of Hawaii has stated that he's seen the records and has no doubt that Obama was born in Hawaii. I'm sorry, Pooh, but you offer nothing other than reports from fascist on-line sources that wouldn't know the truth if it hit them squarely in the snout (and maybe if they were hit there, they'd STFU). You've received a beat down on this over and over. The only thing I'm waiting for from you is the claim that the government designed 9/11. You've become a total conspiracy whack job in your dotage. That would be the same dotage that tells you that you're shooting close to your age as you take mulligan after mulligan before you tank up on margaritas. =Bob I swear that you must be think as a stump. Why don't you read what has been said and what the question is. Just what have I said is the remaining question?
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Post by Bob Forsythe on Jul 29, 2009 17:50:29 GMT -8
Naah. Just means that you didn't watch the video and all you're really doing is trolling. Screw the "long form". Tell me why you don't accept the birth announcements in two Honolulu newspapers. You always avoid the facts that kill your arguments. And while you're at it, tell me why I should believe anything you offer from WND, which ain't anything more than an ideological World Weekly News (I'm waiting for WND to claim that Obama has flown over DC on an alien spaceship), while the Republican Governor of Hawaii has stated that he's seen the records and has no doubt that Obama was born in Hawaii. I'm sorry, Pooh, but you offer nothing other than reports from fascist on-line sources that wouldn't know the truth if it hit them squarely in the snout (and maybe if they were hit there, they'd STFU). You've received a beat down on this over and over. The only thing I'm waiting for from you is the claim that the government designed 9/11. You've become a total conspiracy whack job in your dotage. That would be the same dotage that tells you that you're shooting close to your age as you take mulligan after mulligan before you tank up on margaritas. =Bob I swear that you must be think as a stump. Why don't you read what has been said and what the question is. Just what have I said is the remaining question? Um, maybe because you harp on it constantly as a troll? While I think the whole debate is stupid, the one problem I have with it is that the right-wingnuts have been trying to argue since Obama started running that he's "different", that he's "not one of us", that he's not and "American" and personally I think that smacks of racism (but not on your part because I know who like to post these things just to get on our nerves and I know you well enough to never assume you were a racist). But when there are whack jobs like the woman in Delaware screaming, "I want my country back" and the crowd booing the Congressman for stating that Obama is a citizen, something is seriously wrong, and the Republican Party plays on the sentiments of the fringes by offering statements such as, "As far as I know, he's a citizen". And yeah, I know Hillary did the same damn thing. =Bob
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Post by aztecwin on Jul 30, 2009 4:57:21 GMT -8
I swear that you must be think as a stump. Why don't you read what has been said and what the question is. Just what have I said is the remaining question? Um, maybe because you harp on it constantly as a troll? While I think the whole debate is stupid, the one problem I have with it is that the right-wingnuts have been trying to argue since Obama started running that he's "different", that he's "not one of us", that he's not and "American" and personally I think that smacks of racism (but not on your part because I know who like to post these things just to get on our nerves and I know you well enough to never assume you were a racist). But when there are whack jobs like the woman in Delaware screaming, "I want my country back" and the crowd booing the Congressman for stating that Obama is a citizen, something is seriously wrong, and the Republican Party plays on the sentiments of the fringes by offering statements such as, "As far as I know, he's a citizen". And yeah, I know Hillary did the same damn thing. =Bob Well, at least you seem to have admitted that you went back to see what was being talked about. Obama different? I had not thought much about that, but now that you mention it, he does look a little like ET. Do you think that there could be something to that? Got to go. Tee time in a few minutes.
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Post by aztecwin on Jul 30, 2009 16:27:14 GMT -8
Here is a link that has lots more to say about Obama and his past. starturl.com/whynocertificateMy basic question is still why he won't release the document. Others have many more questions.
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Post by Bob Forsythe on Jul 30, 2009 17:22:40 GMT -8
Here is a link that has lots more to say about Obama and his past. starturl.com/whynocertificateMy basic question is still why he won't release the document. Others have many more questions. Maybe he's been reading your posts and has just decided to annoy you? Who the Hell cares? There is no evidence that he was not born in this country. However, just from an historical viewpoint, if he'd been born in, say, 1957, when Hawaii was a territory instead of a state, I wonder what the legal ramifications would be. I really don't know - would every person born in Hawaii under the same circumstances while that ridiculous definition of "natural born" was in effect, be considered a natural born citizen? Was there a law passed at some point stating that children of immigrants (would be mostly Japanese but no doubt others) born in Hawaii while it was a territory would be considered "natural born"? It's just an interesting point of history. =Bob
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Post by AlwaysAnAztec on Jul 31, 2009 8:34:13 GMT -8
Here is a link that has lots more to say about Obama and his past. starturl.com/whynocertificateMy basic question is still why he won't release the document. Others have many more questions. Maybe he's been reading your posts and has just decided to annoy you? Who the Hell cares? There is no evidence that he was not born in this country. However, just from an historical viewpoint, if he'd been born in, say, 1957, when Hawaii was a territory instead of a state, I wonder what the legal ramifications would be. I really don't know - would every person born in Hawaii under the same circumstances while that ridiculous definition of "natural born" was in effect, be considered a natural born citizen? Was there a law passed at some point stating that children of immigrants (would be mostly Japanese but no doubt others) born in Hawaii while it was a territory would be considered "natural born"? It's just an interesting point of history. =Bob United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649 (1898): In this case, the majority of the Court held that a child born in U.S. territory to parents who were subjects of the emperor of China and who were not eligible for U.S. citizenship, but who had “a permanent domicile and residence in the United States, and are there carrying on business, and are not employed in any diplomatic or official capacity under the emperor of China” was a U.S. Citizen. Actually from a legal standpoint, it seems that McCain was on much more shaky ground than Obama. Wikipedia has a good section on "natural born citizen". en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_born_citizen_of_the_United_States
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Post by sportnlyf on Jul 31, 2009 11:03:12 GMT -8
As an independent unwilling to swallow either party's line, hook and sinker, it amazes me that many republicans, including some politicians continue to buy in or pretend to buy in on this topic. Like their C Street fraternity, their senators' successful efforts to take the crown from the democrats in the Philandering League, Sarah Palin, etc., keeping the "birthing" issue alive only make them seem more silly and pointless.
There are actually a few more important issues facing them and the country at this point.
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Post by aztecwin on Jul 31, 2009 11:16:59 GMT -8
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Post by AlwaysAnAztec on Jul 31, 2009 14:02:26 GMT -8
What a piece of racist trash. What's important about it is the feeling a growing number of Americans have in their bones that Obama is foreign -- to our traditions, loyalties and shared understandings about the nature of America. In a way the legal debate matters less than that bone-deep sense that Obama is fundamentally "Other than American."
We all recognized George W as a prototypical American -- even if you didn't agree with him or even like him. There he was cutting dry brush around his modest West Texas ranch house, to keep down the fire danger, while the fat and foolish White House punditry stayed huddled back in the air conditioning. Or flying onto the aircraft carrier in a jet trainer after Saddam was overthrown. Or heading straight to walk Ground Zero with the cops and fire fighters right after 9/11. Bush looked at home with those cops, because he was. He likes those guys, and they like him. They are made of the same stuff. Obama isn't. "Obama is foreign -- to our traditions, loyalties and shared understandings about the nature of America." - Only if you are a right wing, country club WASP."We all recognized George W as a prototypical American" - He's got to be kidding. The Bush family is as close to American Royalty as you can get, and that includes the Roosevelts. Bush was the spoiled rich kid while Obama was the product of middle class America. Bush was handed everything he ever had by others. Obama did it himself. I could go on and on.
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Post by Bob Forsythe on Jul 31, 2009 15:42:26 GMT -8
And yet the Obama "birther" debate is important. What's important about it is the feeling a growing number of Americans have in their bones that Obama is foreign -- to our traditions, loyalties and shared understandings about the nature of America. In a way the legal debate matters less than that bone-deep sense that Obama is fundamentally "Other than American."
And this is the problem. The total racism of the above statement speaks for itself. The entire "birther" debate is fueled by the fear that demographic projections suggest that by 2050 there will be no majority "race" in this country. And while it's interesting to note that the largest percentage of Republicans who buy into the birther argument are from the south, it's equally, if not more important to note that one of the mail leaders of the argument is an immigrant from Russia, a country that is far more racist than this country.
Oh wait, I'm attacking an immigrant. Maybe I should start a movement demanding that Russians no longer be allowed to come to this country. But then again, it is a free country, even if Eastern Europeans only see government in terms of various forms of authoritarianism.
=Bob
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Post by aztecwin on Jul 31, 2009 15:59:17 GMT -8
What a piece of racist trash. What's important about it is the feeling a growing number of Americans have in their bones that Obama is foreign -- to our traditions, loyalties and shared understandings about the nature of America. In a way the legal debate matters less than that bone-deep sense that Obama is fundamentally "Other than American."
We all recognized George W as a prototypical American -- even if you didn't agree with him or even like him. There he was cutting dry brush around his modest West Texas ranch house, to keep down the fire danger, while the fat and foolish White House punditry stayed huddled back in the air conditioning. Or flying onto the aircraft carrier in a jet trainer after Saddam was overthrown. Or heading straight to walk Ground Zero with the cops and fire fighters right after 9/11. Bush looked at home with those cops, because he was. He likes those guys, and they like him. They are made of the same stuff. Obama isn't. "Obama is foreign -- to our traditions, loyalties and shared understandings about the nature of America." - Only if you are a right wing, country club WASP."We all recognized George W as a prototypical American" - He's got to be kidding. The Bush family is as close to American Royalty as you can get, and that includes the Roosevelts. Bush was the spoiled rich kid while Obama was the product of middle class America. Bush was handed everything he ever had by others. Obama did it himself. I could go on and on. I don't see it as racist at all, but I can see why some would. Bush was the product of privilege as you say and Obama from more modest means. (His Grandmothers home between Diamond Head and Koko head near Kaiser is hardly a slum.) Obama comes off as an aloof detached person of the elite left while Bush seems like a more down home guy you might see at Wall Mart. That was not the point for me anyway. I just wanted to show that whatever the facts are it does not matter.
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Post by aztecwin on Jul 31, 2009 16:00:50 GMT -8
And yet the Obama "birther" debate is important. What's important about it is the feeling a growing number of Americans have in their bones that Obama is foreign -- to our traditions, loyalties and shared understandings about the nature of America. In a way the legal debate matters less than that bone-deep sense that Obama is fundamentally "Other than American." And this is the problem. The total racism of the above statement speaks for itself. The entire "birther" debate is fueled by the fear that demographic projections suggest that by 2050 there will be no majority "race" in this country. And while it's interesting to note that the largest percentage of Republicans who buy into the birther argument are from the south, it's equally, if not more important to note that one of the mail leaders of the argument is an immigrant from Russia, a country that is far more racist than this country. Oh wait, I'm attacking an immigrant. Maybe I should start a movement demanding that Russians no longer be allowed to come to this country. But then again, it is a free country, even if Eastern Europeans only see government in terms of various forms of authoritarianism. =Bob Where do you get your facts on where "birther folks" are from?
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Post by aztecwin on Aug 2, 2009 6:03:42 GMT -8
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Post by Bob Forsythe on Aug 2, 2009 7:00:55 GMT -8
And yet the Obama "birther" debate is important. What's important about it is the feeling a growing number of Americans have in their bones that Obama is foreign -- to our traditions, loyalties and shared understandings about the nature of America. In a way the legal debate matters less than that bone-deep sense that Obama is fundamentally "Other than American." And this is the problem. The total racism of the above statement speaks for itself. The entire "birther" debate is fueled by the fear that demographic projections suggest that by 2050 there will be no majority "race" in this country. And while it's interesting to note that the largest percentage of Republicans who buy into the birther argument are from the south, it's equally, if not more important to note that one of the mail leaders of the argument is an immigrant from Russia, a country that is far more racist than this country. Oh wait, I'm attacking an immigrant. Maybe I should start a movement demanding that Russians no longer be allowed to come to this country. But then again, it is a free country, even if Eastern Europeans only see government in terms of various forms of authoritarianism. =Bob Where do you get your facts on where "birther folks" are from? One of the leaders is a woman originally from Russia. =Bob
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