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Post by AztecWilliam on Jul 28, 2009 10:09:23 GMT -8
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Post by aztecwin on Jul 28, 2009 10:48:53 GMT -8
It appears to me also that Obama is anti-Israel.
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Post by AztecWilliam on Jul 28, 2009 12:28:29 GMT -8
It appears to me also that Obama is anti-Israel. What I'm afraid of is that Obama, clearly being a man of the Left, has bought into much of the Left's "narrative" about the Middle East. That narrative holds that Israel is more or less as guilty as are those who have sworn to destroy the "Zionist entity." If Obama buys that theory it is only natural that he would want to be "even-handed" in the dispute. AzWm |
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Post by Bob Forsythe on Jul 28, 2009 15:02:49 GMT -8
It appears to me also that Obama is anti-Israel. It appears to me that you are trolling. =Bob |
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Post by Bob Forsythe on Jul 28, 2009 15:07:31 GMT -8
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Post by Bob Forsythe on Jul 28, 2009 15:20:38 GMT -8
It appears to me also that Obama is anti-Israel. What I'm afraid of is that Obama, clearly being a man of the Left, has bought into much of the Left's "narrative" about the Middle East. That narrative holds that Israel is more or less as guilty as are those who have sworn to destroy the "Zionist entity." If Obama buys that theory it is only natural that he would want to be "even-handed" in the dispute. AzWm I think your view of how the left sees Israel is more than slightly out of whack. Al Fatah has pretty much curbed all violence against Israel but Israel continues to expand the settlements on the argument that every kid born in the settlements has the right to live next door, or down the street, from their parents. That's patent nonsense. What the left, except for the real wing-nuts, in this country want is to see Israel embrace a 2-state compromise. Israel continues to take Palestinian land with little or no compensation and it does so on the basis of the Jewish fundamentalists who argue that everything on the West Bank and beyond belongs to Israel because it belonged to the Israelis 2 thousand years ago. We do not support Palestinian terrorism nor support Israeli expansionism. We recognize that the Israelis had no problem with engaging in terrorism prior to the U.N. vote that created Israel. We recognize that the Arab hatred of Israel is irrational and has to stop. We recognize that Jewish fundamentalists have far too much power in Israel and AIPAC has far too much power in this country. In short, we recognize that this is a complicated issue and simplistic views, such as the trolls we see from Pooh, do not contribute anything to the conversation. We hand over billions of bucks a year to Israel, most of which they use for military spending. Because we do that, we have the right to tell Israel what we'd like to see them do. If they don't care to do it, we should stop all foreign aid to Israel until such time as they figure it out. =Bob |
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Post by AztecWilliam on Jul 29, 2009 11:13:32 GMT -8
Goldberg may be correct in his analysis of the President's Israeli philosophy. If so, I wonder whether Obama isn't trying to be too clever by half. If he can go to Cairo and make statements critical of anti-Israeli Arabs, why can't he go to Tel Aviv and make statements critical of extreme Zionists? All in the context of reassuring the Israeli people that the U.S.A. is not about to abandon the only true democracy in the Middle East. I personally have never thought that Obama is anti-Israel. But I do think that he may be convinced that the "let's be even-handed" school of thought is correct, and that we must nudge Israel in the "right direction," even if the Israelis are too stubborn to see the light. Barack Obama should go to Israel and state his case straight out. Doing so would clear the air at the very least. AzWm |
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Post by Bob Forsythe on Jul 29, 2009 18:03:31 GMT -8
Goldberg may be correct in his analysis of the President's Israeli philosophy. If so, I wonder whether Obama isn't trying to be too clever by half. If he can go to Cairo and make statements critical of anti-Israeli Arabs, why can't he go to Tel Aviv and make statements critical of extreme Zionists? All in the context of reassuring the Israeli people that the U.S.A. is not about to abandon the only true democracy in the Middle East. AzWm I assume you've seen Charlie Wilson's War. He tells Julia Roberts that Jews get him reelected because he's Israel's boy on the Hill and he gets a lot of campaign contributions from Jews in other places than his district. AIPAC is an incredibly powerful lobby and the situation with Jewish fundamentalists is at least as complex, if not more so, than it is with Islamic fundamentalists because those in Israel get a voice and a vote. But either way, he has assured the Israelis over and over that we are not going to abandon them. What Israel wants is for us to keep giving them 20 billion bucks a year but not pushing them in any meaningful way and that's not in our best interests. =Bob |
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Post by AztecWilliam on Jul 29, 2009 21:53:46 GMT -8
Goldberg may be correct in his analysis of the President's Israeli philosophy. If so, I wonder whether Obama isn't trying to be too clever by half. If he can go to Cairo and make statements critical of anti-Israeli Arabs, why can't he go to Tel Aviv and make statements critical of extreme Zionists? All in the context of reassuring the Israeli people that the U.S.A. is not about to abandon the only true democracy in the Middle East. AzWm I assume you've seen Charlie Wilson's War. He tells Julia Roberts that Jews get him reelected because he's Israel's boy on the Hill and he gets a lot of campaign contributions from Jews in other places than his district. AIPAC is an incredibly powerful lobby and the situation with Jewish fundamentalists is at least as complex, if not more so, than it is with Islamic fundamentalists because those in Israel get a voice and a vote. But either way, he has assured the Israelis over and over that we are not going to abandon them. What Israel wants is for us to keep giving them 20 billion bucks a year but not pushing them in any meaningful way and that's not in our best interests. =Bob Which still does not explain why Pres. Obama does not go to Israel and speak directly to the Israeli people. What does he have to lose? If seems to me he has much to gain by doing so, even if he steps on a few Israeli toes. My view is that only when the Palestinians ALL agree to renounce violence and to accept Israel as a legitimate state and neighbor will peace come. So long as even a portion of the Palestinians continue to open call for the destruction of Israel there is virtually no chance of ending the conflict. AzWm |
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