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Post by aztec70 on Jul 7, 2010 11:55:11 GMT -8
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Post by AztecBill on Jul 9, 2010 8:55:12 GMT -8
Aztec70, I know you can't wait for the sea ice to all melt but prepare to be disappointed again. There are two ways sea ice extent can be reduced. 1. Melt in place 2. Move It melts in place either by the sea from under the ice or above from the air. When it moves it moves because of wind. It can either move away from the cold regions and melt or it can be moved toward colder regions and compress. I am sure you will be disappointed to learn that the wind has moved the sea ice in the Arctic into colder regions compressing the sea ice. It was not moved away where it easily melts. Any area of the sea that has at least 15% ice cover is counted in the sea ice extent. The wind that moved the ice may have reduced the 15% coverage but it increased the coverage with more than 15% coverage. This means the sea ice didn't melt but actually moved to an area where it will be more difficult to melt and will slow the melting as we progress toward the heart of the summer. On June 28th the Sea Ice extent was reported as 679,531 square KM below 2007 on the same date. Today it is reports as 59,062 square KM below 2007 on the same date. So in just 10 days it has made up 620,469 square KM. Meanwhile the temperatures in the Arctic were below normal for all of June. According to the Danish Meteorological Institute’s Center for Ocean and Ice. Of course the WEB site you love to link won't tell you this because they have a vested interest in Global Warming being perceived as fact. They have had a windfall of funding due to global warming and would be a big loser if it all turned out to be a scam concocted by those who stand to benefit from it. Remember President Eisenhower's warning:Today, the solitary inventor, tinkering in his shop, has been overshadowed by task forces of scientists in laboratories and testing fields. In the same fashion, the free university, historically the fountainhead of free ideas and scientific discovery, has experienced a revolution in the conduct of research. Partly because of the huge costs involved, a government contract becomes virtually a substitute for intellectual curiosity. For every old blackboard there are now hundreds of new electronic computers. The prospect of domination of the nation's scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present -- and is gravely to be regarded.
Yet, in holding scientific research and discovery in respect, as we should, we must also be alert to the equal and opposite danger that public policy could itself become the captive of a scientific-technological elite. |
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Post by aztec70 on Jul 9, 2010 9:28:14 GMT -8
Bill, it is so comforting for me to realize that you know everything.
;D
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Post by aztec70 on Jul 9, 2010 9:41:44 GMT -8
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Post by aztec70 on Jul 9, 2010 9:50:22 GMT -8
Bill, going to the point that DMI and NSIDC disagreeing on the air temp. for the acrtic. Are you sure that they are measuring the same area? I have not looked to see. DMI says they are measuring north of 80 degrees. Have you checked to see what the area that NSIDC is measuring? I bet they are mesuring a larger area. If they are not measuring the same thing then your point in pointless. Let me know, OK?
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Post by AztecBill on Jul 12, 2010 8:59:26 GMT -8
Over the weekend the sea ice melted at a far less rate than average (no surprise) and moved about 100K above 2007 and is closing in on 2006.
Sea ice extent is a bad proxy for temperature. I have written aobut that before and state it again. But it is funny that the warming alarmists chose that as their battle ground and are losing the fight in their own chosen straw man.
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Post by AztecBill on Jul 12, 2010 9:01:52 GMT -8
Bill, it is so comforting for me to realize that you know everything. ;D I jsut read a lot about AGW stuff. That is how one gets to know stuff. I also know from experience that when a group or a person stands to make a lot of money from something, it is wise to not rely on their word as gospel. |
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Post by AztecBill on Jul 12, 2010 11:57:22 GMT -8
Bill, going to the point that DMI and NSIDC disagreeing on the air temp. for the acrtic. Are you sure that they are measuring the same area? I have not looked to see. DMI says they are measuring north of 80 degrees. Have you checked to see what the area that NSIDC is measuring? I bet they are mesuring a larger area. If they are not measuring the same thing then your point in pointless. Let me know, OK? |
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Post by aztec70 on Jul 12, 2010 13:59:19 GMT -8
Bill, going to the point that DMI and NSIDC disagreeing on the air temp. for the acrtic. Are you sure that they are measuring the same area? I have not looked to see. DMI says they are measuring north of 80 degrees. Have you checked to see what the area that NSIDC is measuring? I bet they are mesuring a larger area. If they are not measuring the same thing then your point in pointless. Let me know, OK? Bill, I said that in my post. Read it more carefully. |
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Post by The Great Aztec Joe on Jul 15, 2010 9:57:12 GMT -8
We got trouble
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Post by Bob Forsythe on Jul 16, 2010 16:52:35 GMT -8
Bill, here's the problem. I'm going to offer a given here. The given is that at some point or another you read the Foundation Trilogy. I believe it was in Foundation and Empire that an "archaeologist" showed up. he announced that he was 'researching" which planet humans had come from. When he was asked what field work he'd done to further his research, he basically stated that all the field work needed had already been done and his job was to just read things and determine what former research was correct.
That describes you to a tee. You are a dilettante who has never engaged in field research, has never developed any sort of unique model and, as near as I can tell, has never had an original though in your rather pathetic, dilettante life.
You simply read what others write and accept those writings based upon your rather sad ideology. I would have respect for your comments if you had actually done something other than reading but it's very clear that that you have never engaged in any sort of field research and will never have a clue as to what it means to engage in field research.
The best you can ever offer is what you've read and you've made it quite clear that everything you offer is grounded in you radical right-wing ideology.
So to the point - give me a single reason I should accept any of your bull$#!+ when all you offer is ideology instead of arguments that have anything to do with true academics (which I recognize is not exactly what Econ majors deal in). Stick to your field - ain't like anyone majoring in what you did has any business arguing science or social science - you're so far over your head your dick is coming out your mouth.
=Bob
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Post by The Great Aztec Joe on Jul 17, 2010 5:59:52 GMT -8
As a Born Again Liberal, I must point out that Global Warming is getting totally out of control.
Last I heard, we were in a DOWN Sun spot cycle that should have induced Global Cooling. For the Earth to continue warming up as much as it is and for the ice of the planet to be in rapid melt stage everywhere we look, tells us that we are on the edge of a run away cycle, just like hit Mars a Billion years ago. It was a beautiful water planet with a fantastic atmosphere. The Water and most of the atmosphere is gone because of global warming on that planet.
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Post by Spud on Jul 17, 2010 6:46:47 GMT -8
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Post by davdesid on Jul 18, 2010 16:43:19 GMT -8
Does the stuff on this site come from some right-wing source? Seriously. I want to know if this site is funded by BP or Halliburton, or some other Darth- Vader-like interest. wattsupwiththat.com/sea-ice-page/ |
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Post by The Great Aztec Joe on Jul 18, 2010 19:31:16 GMT -8
Does the stuff on this site come from some right-wing source? Seriously. I want to know if this site is funded by BP or Halliburton, or some other Darth- Vader-like interest. wattsupwiththat.com/sea-ice-page/From the looks of all the charts we have little to worry about. |
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Post by The Great Aztec Joe on Jul 18, 2010 19:32:13 GMT -8
Does the stuff on this site come from some right-wing source? Seriously. I want to know if this site is funded by BP or Halliburton, or some other Darth- Vader-like interest. wattsupwiththat.com/sea-ice-page/From the looks of all the charts we have little to worry about. OBVIOUSLY, the data are flawed. |
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Post by Bob Forsythe on Jul 19, 2010 17:44:01 GMT -8
Does the stuff on this site come from some right-wing source? Seriously. I want to know if this site is funded by BP or Halliburton, or some other Darth- Vader-like interest. wattsupwiththat.com/sea-ice-page/Dave, the point is that the entire debate has been politicized, not whether or not this or that model is accurate. Most everything Bill offers comes from right-wing websites and as I stated, he has never worked in the field, has never developed a model of his own and therefore, is just another dilettante who believes he understands the science simply because he's read a lot of sources, all of which agree with his political view. I worked as an archaeologist for 4 years and to this day I still run into people who think that because they done their reading while never spending a day with their nose 60 cm down in a unit that somehow gives them the ability to determine who has the "correct" theory. I don't understand the science but, unlike Bill, I don't pretend to understand the science. We're all amateurs when it comes to this stuff, but only Bill (well, and maybe Spud, who consistently offers nonsensical statements either because of ideology or just to stir the pot) seems to think that his amateurism should count for something. =Bob |
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Post by davdesid on Jul 20, 2010 13:06:15 GMT -8
Does the stuff on this site come from some right-wing source? Seriously. I want to know if this site is funded by BP or Halliburton, or some other Darth- Vader-like interest. wattsupwiththat.com/sea-ice-page/Dave, the point is that the entire debate has been politicized, not whether or not this or that model is accurate. Most everything Bill offers comes from right-wing websites and as I stated, he has never worked in the field, has never developed a model of his own and therefore, is just another dilettante who believes he understands the science simply because he's read a lot of sources, all of which agree with his political view. I worked as an archaeologist for 4 years and to this day I still run into people who think that because they done their reading while never spending a day with their nose 60 cm down in a unit that somehow gives them the ability to determine who has the "correct" theory. I don't understand the science but, unlike Bill, I don't pretend to understand the science. We're all amateurs when it comes to this stuff, but only Bill (well, and maybe Spud, who consistently offers nonsensical statements either because of ideology or just to stir the pot) seems to think that his amateurism should count for something. =Bob Well okay, but I thought you hung your hat on your expertise about southeast Asia on your reading and studies, and accordingly you never had to actually be there. I was just wondering if the facts presented on that site I linked are phonied up by the oil companies. |
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Post by aztec70 on Jul 20, 2010 13:29:57 GMT -8
Does the stuff on this site come from some right-wing source? Seriously. I want to know if this site is funded by BP or Halliburton, or some other Darth- Vader-like interest. wattsupwiththat.com/sea-ice-page/No. Why do you ask the question? |
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Post by davdesid on Jul 20, 2010 13:42:51 GMT -8
Does the stuff on this site come from some right-wing source? Seriously. I want to know if this site is funded by BP or Halliburton, or some other Darth- Vader-like interest. wattsupwiththat.com/sea-ice-page/No. Why do you ask the question? Thanks. If the data were funded by the right-wing, it would ipso facto be misleading. |
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