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Post by AztecWilliam on Jan 16, 2011 11:48:42 GMT -8
My initial reaction to the Tucson speech was positive, and still feel that way. I do understnad what York is talking about in this piece but am not too worried about it. Why am I not worried in the same way York is? Simple. No one who opposes Obama (i.e., anyone with an ounce of sense) is going to let this or any other speech keep them from telling the truth about the failings of Barack-in-ObamaLand style governance.. washingtonexaminer.com/politics/2011/01/rethinking-obamas-political-performance-tucsonAzWm |
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Post by Yoda on Jan 16, 2011 12:09:09 GMT -8
...No one who opposes Obama (i.e., anyone with an ounce of sense)... AzWm I have plenty of sense and I very much resent you suggesting otherwise. The unmitigated and all knowing arrogance of many on the right is beyond comprehension. Why must you folks personalize / demonize those who have a different opinion than you do? Believe it or not, it is possible to have honest differences of opinion without "the opposition" being subjected to personal attacks. I know that it doesn't happen on Faux and on those extremist websites that advertise "the best selection of liberal baiting material on the web". But it is possible. Yoda out... |
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Post by aztec70 on Jan 16, 2011 15:15:12 GMT -8
...No one who opposes Obama (i.e., anyone with an ounce of sense)... AzWm I have plenty of sense and I very much resent you suggesting otherwise. The unmitigated and all knowing arrogance of many on the right is beyond comprehension. Why must you folks personalize / demonize those who have a different opinion than you do? Believe it or not, it is possible to have honest differences of opinion without "the opposition" being subjected to personal attacks. I know that it doesn't happen on Faux and on those extremist websites that advertise "the best selection of liberal baiting material on the web". But it is possible. Yoda out... Plus one. |
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Post by aztecwin on Jan 16, 2011 19:28:21 GMT -8
What would your reaction be had the (with and ounce of sense) had not been included? I think William hit a nerve as it becomes clearer that Obama has little common sense in issues that matter to our economy and those who supported him in the past feel backed into a corner even as their support wanes.
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Post by Yoda on Jan 16, 2011 20:59:18 GMT -8
What would your reaction be had the (with and once of sense) had not been included? I think William hit a nerve as it becomes clearer that Obama has little common sense in issues that matter to our economy and those who supported him in the past feel backed into a corner even as their support wanes. No William did not hit a nerve. His comment was just needlessly -- let's just say that it lacked civility. I'm really not trying to pick on him however. I was really just questioning the tendency of some on the right to lead with an insult. It's so counterproductive and doesn't "win" any arguments. I just don't get it. And I voted for McCain. Yoda out... |
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Post by JOCAZTEC on Jan 16, 2011 22:38:23 GMT -8
The "I hate George Bush" syndrome was okay, but if you disagree with Osama's 14 trillion credit card debt, it's not okay. The government can't deliver a piece of mail. They now are going to handle the human mind and body?  |
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Post by Yoda on Jan 16, 2011 23:44:28 GMT -8
The "I hate George Bush" syndrome was okay, but if you disagree with Osama's 14 trillion credit card debt, it's not okay. The government can't deliver a piece of mail. They now are going to handle the human mind and body? I don't care if someone disagrees with Obama. I don't agree with him in many respects. The complaint is about the lack of civility in the treatment of people who don't share the writer's negative opinion's about Obama. Totally different topic. Yoda out... |
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Post by davdesid on Jan 17, 2011 14:05:33 GMT -8
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Post by aztecwin on Jan 17, 2011 15:16:57 GMT -8
What would your reaction be had the (with and once of sense) had not been included? I think William hit a nerve as it becomes clearer that Obama has little common sense in issues that matter to our economy and those who supported him in the past feel backed into a corner even as their support wanes. No William did not hit a nerve. His comment was just needlessly -- let's just say that it lacked civility. I'm really not trying to pick on him however. I was really just questioning the tendency of some on the right to lead with an insult. It's so counterproductive and doesn't "win" any arguments. I just don't get it. And I voted for McCain. Yoda out... That is my point as well. I would have included the little hook only if trying to get a rise out of some of our members. A lot of us do that for just that reason. Sometimes the issue is not as important as getting under someone's skin. I don't think William is that way, but lots of us are.  |
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Post by Yoda on Jan 17, 2011 16:15:51 GMT -8
The "civility" whine only comes after that really, really swell example of civility by the left when they tried and failed to pin the blame on their political opponents. It's not a whine; it's a legitimate issue that precedes the events in Tucson. The right wing is notorious for its "liberal baiting". By right wing, I mean the new right -- not the old guard like George Will. Nothing good comes from baiting the other side. I posted early on that "sometimes a nutcase is just a nutcase" -- that I didn't see the connection between the civility issue and the shooting that some were claiming. But civility is still an issue. A lack of civility does nothing to promote communication. It doesn't unite or encourage compromise. It divides and makes compromise a virtual impossibility. The right wing media does it because they make money by encouraging discord and doing all they can to prevent solutions from being found. But there is no excuse for real people to do it as well. Yoda out... |
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Post by aztecwin on Jan 17, 2011 16:27:22 GMT -8
Yoda,
Is there a chance you don't read or ignore the same sort of things from the left? Just as bad or maybe worse.
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Post by Yoda on Jan 17, 2011 17:06:32 GMT -8
Yoda, Is there a chance you don't read or ignore the same sort of things from the left? Just as bad or maybe worse. It depends on what you are referring to. If you mean the posters on this board -- which is who we started out talking about here -- then I haven't really noticed the name calling and lack of civility so much from the more left of center types. If you mean the general media, I try and avoid reading it from either side. However, the right wing media is far more "in the news" than is the left wing -- perhaps because they are more over the top and perhaps just because they have higher ratings. I'm not sure which I'm sure that the left has it's extremist commentators but I think I've done a better job of avoiding them as they not as adept at getting headlines. Yoda out... |
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Post by aztecwin on Jan 17, 2011 20:27:00 GMT -8
Yoda, Is there a chance you don't read or ignore the same sort of things from the left? Just as bad or maybe worse. It depends on what you are referring to. If you mean the posters on this board -- which is who we started out talking about here -- then I haven't really noticed the name calling and lack of civility so much from the more left of center types. If you mean the general media, I try and avoid reading it from either side. However, the right wing media is far more "in the news" than is the left wing -- perhaps because they are more over the top and perhaps just because they have higher ratings. I'm not sure which I'm sure that the left has it's extremist commentators but I think I've done a better job of avoiding them as they not as adept at getting headlines. Yoda out... I don't agree, but then it may seem that way because many of the lefties have cut back on posting much since public opinion and the political winds have shifted. There are two or three really vile posters who have stopped posting in the face of the reversal of the fortunes of their ideas and leaders. Even some of the reasoned and reasonable lefties have cut back. |
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Post by aztec70 on Jan 17, 2011 20:33:56 GMT -8
It depends on what you are referring to. If you mean the posters on this board -- which is who we started out talking about here -- then I haven't really noticed the name calling and lack of civility so much from the more left of center types. If you mean the general media, I try and avoid reading it from either side. However, the right wing media is far more "in the news" than is the left wing -- perhaps because they are more over the top and perhaps just because they have higher ratings. I'm not sure which I'm sure that the left has it's extremist commentators but I think I've done a better job of avoiding them as they not as adept at getting headlines. Yoda out... I don't agree, but then it may seem that way because many of the lefties have cut back on posting much since public opinion and the political winds have shifted. There are two or three really vile posters who have stopped posting in the face of the reversal of the fortunes of their ideas and leaders. Even some of the reasoned and reasonable lefties have cut back. Who are you talking about? |
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Post by AztecWilliam on Jan 17, 2011 22:08:24 GMT -8
Actually, I was trying to put a little needle in there! My bad!  The "common sense" remark was, of course, mild stuff when compared with what one sometimes reads or hears. Just about the worst on the Right is Michael Savage. But I suspect that he really doesn't believe everything he says. (Rush isn't quite that nasty, but he does have a habit of attributing bad motives to those on the Left whereas I just think they lack common sense.) On the other hand, Bill Maher and others of the Left may well be sincere when they throw garbage at Sarah Palin, George Bush, and others. Stating that you wish Michele Bachman would cut her own throat or hoping that Dick Cheney would die a painful death aren't exactly worthwhile entries in the Sunshine Thought For Today sweepstakes, either. The kind of language I've been referring to really is destructive and should have no place in the political discussions. But when one side makes false claims, it is perfectly okay for the other side to call them out on that issue. It is unreasonable, therefore, to suggest that you cannot openly criticize those with whom you have political disagreements. I do get a bit impatient when I post specific complaints about, for instance, ObamaCare and seldom if every get replies which address those specific issues. AzWm |
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Post by AlwaysAnAztec on Jan 18, 2011 11:24:43 GMT -8
It depends on what you are referring to. If you mean the posters on this board -- which is who we started out talking about here -- then I haven't really noticed the name calling and lack of civility so much from the more left of center types. If you mean the general media, I try and avoid reading it from either side. However, the right wing media is far more "in the news" than is the left wing -- perhaps because they are more over the top and perhaps just because they have higher ratings. I'm not sure which I'm sure that the left has it's extremist commentators but I think I've done a better job of avoiding them as they not as adept at getting headlines. Yoda out... I don't agree, but then it may seem that way because many of the lefties have cut back on posting much since public opinion and the political winds have shifted. There are two or three really vile posters who have stopped posting in the face of the reversal of the fortunes of their ideas and leaders. Even some of the reasoned and reasonable lefties have cut back. It has nothing to do with 'political winds shifting' but the vulgar personal attacks and the use of profanity towards anyone who doesn't toe the views of you and the other right-wingers on this board.  (You have kept profanity out of your posts but others haven't) |
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Post by aztecwin on Jan 18, 2011 11:48:05 GMT -8
I abhor the use of profanity more than most, but the use is tame in comparison to the down right vile sentiment coming from some on the left. One poster even went so far as to proclaim some kind of morale or social class superiority because he said (with no basis) that he was richer than I. We have one poster who claims that he is just full of hate for me because I tweak his nose. We also have some lefties who seem to join in with the fun just for what it is worth, fun.
Let me just say if all posters had the demeanor of Uwaztec or even Waztec, it would be a lot less contentious and just as fun. I don't worry about the exchanges with =Bob since I know exactly how he rolls.
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Post by davdesid on Jan 18, 2011 17:00:12 GMT -8
All the naughty words in every language known to man cannot compete with the REAL HATE which was put on display by the left this past week. pajamasmedia.com/instapundit/113424/Want civility? Bite me. On second thought, there is at least one "liberal" with a sense of perspective... tinyurl.com/5utanbk |
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Post by Yoda on Jan 18, 2011 17:17:57 GMT -8
All the naughty words in every language known to man cannot compete with the REAL HATE which was put on display by the left this past week. pajamasmedia.com/instapundit/113424/Want civility? Bite me. Yes, a bunch of three second snippets, some only partial sentences, totally taken out of context -- now there's an objective sampling of what was said. Don't misunderstand, there is some of that on the left. But the right wing, broad brush characterizations that rely on such BS tactics says more about right wing than it does about the left. Find something more credible than snippets taken out of context. I'm sure it's out there. Then I will criticize it. Yoda out... |
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Post by davdesid on Jan 18, 2011 17:38:26 GMT -8
All the naughty words in every language known to man cannot compete with the REAL HATE which was put on display by the left this past week. pajamasmedia.com/instapundit/113424/Want civility? Bite me. Yes, a bunch of three second snippets, some only partial sentences, totally taken out of context -- now there's an objective sampling of what was said. Don't misunderstand, there is some of that on the left. But the right wing, broad brush characterizations that rely on such BS tactics says more about right wing than it does about the left. Find something more credible than snippets taken out of context. I'm sure it's out there. Then I will criticize it. Yoda out... Out of context? Prove it. We all know what went on this past week, and if you are going to try and deny it, it just further illustrates what a phony you are. Yes, we all know you are a "moderate". HAHAHA! You bucking fastards got it stuffed up you duplicitous asses, and you are just going to have to eat it. What do you say about Koch's piece? Eh? tinyurl.com/5utanbkBite me. |
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