|
|
Post by mightymightyaztecs on Jan 14, 2011 10:08:16 GMT -8
Very happy with how this season has been going but one thing has been bothering me for weeks. Why do we shoot so many long range shots when we have three of the best forwards in the nation? Malcolm had that smooth spin move in the UNLV game that was a perfect illustration of what happens when we kick it inside. So why do we keep forcing threes?
I'm no coach and I can't really criticize Fisher while we're undefeated but it seems like he's ignoring a huge part of our game sometimes. Why not throw it inside more often and let Malcom or Billy back down their guys? Or have Kawhi drive to the hoop and force them to foul him? Instead we have so many plays where we run down the clock and DJ chocks up a three. Worse yet, one of our big guys who should be doing work inside like Kawhi or Thomas.
So someone with more basketball IQ break it down for me. Is it the zones we've been seeing? Are we afraid of double teams?
|
|
|
|
Post by Pssst13 on Jan 14, 2011 10:14:19 GMT -8
Then it's a good thing we are shooting well.
2 things:
How do you break the zone?
One of our greatest assets this year is rebounding
2 of many reasons we shoot lots of jumpers.
|
|
|
|
Post by Borg on Jan 14, 2011 10:15:37 GMT -8
That is a good question. Fortunately for the Cougs...that plays right into our trap.
If BYU can trade long range shot for long range shot with SDSU, I like our chances on that outcome.
BUT....if SDSU continuously goes inside, our bigs will certainly have foul trouble, and then...it might just open the flood gates for the Aztecs to do anything they want inside.
But...if you all try and "out shoot" the Cougs from long range....I really like the odds to come out with a "W" in that game scenario.
|
|
|
|
Post by sancarlosaztec on Jan 14, 2011 10:17:19 GMT -8
good question. sometimes one of our players gets a hot hand, but most nights our jumpshots are like passes into the post --thanks to our offensive rebounding ability.
|
|
|
|
Post by DukeAztec on Jan 14, 2011 10:17:58 GMT -8
keep the defense honest.
if we are always going down low, then their guards will lay off ours and help down low.
that is why Rahon is so valuable (when he is on).
|
|
|
|
Post by mightymightyaztecs on Jan 14, 2011 10:22:25 GMT -8
Then it's a good thing we are shooting well. 2 things: How do you break the zone? One of our greatest assets this year is rebounding 2 of many reasons we shoot lots of jumpers. Thing is, we haven't been shooting well lately. Quote from the UT: I don't expect our guys to give up on shooting. In fact, one of the biggest problems IMO has been that we haven't been getting the ball to our best shooters like Rahon. Instead Thomas is taking threes all of a sudden. I expect our shooting to improve but I don't support the idea of forcing it in a tight game like the UNLV game when we can play to our strengths and go inside. Let them foul us or try and stop Thomas and White under the boards. Plus it's much easier to get a put-back off a missed layup/jump hook than it is off a three that clangs off the rim and goes ten feet away. |
|
|
|
Post by mightymightyaztecs on Jan 14, 2011 10:24:58 GMT -8
That is a good question. Fortunately for the Cougs...that plays right into our trap. If BYU can trade long range shot for long range shot with SDSU, I like our chances on that outcome. BUT....if SDSU continuously goes inside, our bigs will certainly have foul trouble, and then...it might just open the flood gates for the Aztecs to do anything they want inside. But...if you all try and "out shoot" the Cougs from long range....I really like the odds to come out with a "W" in that game scenario. I was VERY confused by your post until I checked your username/pic and figured out you were a BYU fan. I completely agree with you though. You will decimate us if we try to shoot it out with Jimmer and Emery. On the other hand I believe the much more athletic Malcolm Thomas, Billy White, and Kawhi Leonard could make your bigs look silly under the rim and put them in foul trouble like you stated. I just hope Fish plays to those strengths. |
|
|
|
Post by 1611Luginbill on Jan 14, 2011 10:25:36 GMT -8
People tend to notice the 3s more when we miss them. IMO the team took a handful too many on Wednesday. Ideally, when you can show threat from beyond the arc with at least two players, it stretches the defense.
UNLV came in on Wednesday well prepared. Usually, SDSU has done a great job of finding the mismatch among Billy, Kawhi, or Malcolm. Find mistmatch, entry pass, isolate, drop step or jump hook, score. Every time the Aztecs had a post entry pass Wednesday, UNLV waited for our player to make initial contact, then brought over helpside on the interior. IMO, it was the best interior defense the Aztecs have seen so far this year. It was made easier for UNLV to rotate on d because all of their players are playing inside of 17 feet. When Rahon was in, the team seemed to get more looks inside because UNLV had James' defender stretched out pretty far.
A prudent threat from outside opens up a lot of other looks in the half court set and can open up a lot of easy buckets in transition.
|
|
|
|
Post by longtimebooster on Jan 14, 2011 10:47:39 GMT -8
keep the defense honest. if we are always going down low, then their guards will lay off ours and help down low. that is why Rahon is so valuable (when he is on). This. For those of you who were around for the Michael Cage years, it's obvious. We'd have been a Top 10 team back then for the want of an outside shooter. Unfortunately, Smokey's teams couldn't hit the broadside of a barn. If you think we're bad at the FT line now, shoulda seen those guys. Nobody held up a finger to help with FTs. Fans just turned away and closed their eyes when our guys were at the stripe. As a result, teams would collapse 2, 3 and sometimes 4 guys on Cage. They had zero respect for our outside game. Cage would always get his 20/10 or 30/15 (or sometimes even 40/20), but he really had to work for it. If we'd have had just one guy (preferably two) who could shoot the three, Cage could've run amok down low. As it was, it was a rugby scrum every time he got the ball. Outside shooting helps clear the lanes for cuts to the basket, passing, one-on-one isolation, etc. -- in addition to ringing up extra points. |
|
|
|
Post by AztecBill on Jan 14, 2011 10:50:47 GMT -8
People tend to notice the 3s more when we miss them. IMO the team took a handful too many on Wednesday. Ideally, when you can show threat from beyond the arc with at least two players, it stretches the defense. UNLV came in on Wednesday well prepared. Usually, SDSU has done a great job of finding the mismatch among Billy, Kawhi, or Malcolm. Find mistmatch, entry pass, isolate, drop step or jump hook, score. Every time the Aztecs had a post entry pass Wednesday, UNLV waited for our player to make initial contact, then brought over helpside on the interior. IMO, it was the best interior defense the Aztecs have seen so far this year. It was made easier for UNLV to rotate on d because all of their players are playing inside of 17 feet. When Rahon was in, the team seemed to get more looks inside because UNLV had James' defender stretched out pretty far. A prudent threat from outside opens up a lot of other looks in the half court set and can open up a lot of easy buckets in transition. You beat me to it. We shot more from the outside for the same reason you go slow in a traffic jam - because that is all that is available to you at the time. UNLV took a page from Fisher. Remember when we didn't have the inside presence we have now and we use to double the post? UNLV did that. The answer is to kick the ball outside for an open 3 or outside and back in. If we can't hit uncontested 3s, we are in trouble. If there was no clock, I am sure the Aztecs would have shot less 3s. When the defense forces you to take 10-15 seconds to start your offense, you have a lot less time to find the right entry pass and work the inside game once it is there. |
|
|
|
Post by aztec96 on Jan 14, 2011 10:54:17 GMT -8
I think Thomas should get a touch on every possession. I know that's not possible, but that should be a focus.
If a team man's us, everything should go through Thomas. He either scores or makes a great pass.
It seemed like we didn't go to him enough on Wednesday because he made some great plays down the stretch on offense.
|
|
|
|
Post by mightymightyaztecs on Jan 14, 2011 11:01:45 GMT -8
People tend to notice the 3s more when we miss them. IMO the team took a handful too many on Wednesday. Ideally, when you can show threat from beyond the arc with at least two players, it stretches the defense. UNLV came in on Wednesday well prepared. Usually, SDSU has done a great job of finding the mismatch among Billy, Kawhi, or Malcolm. Find mistmatch, entry pass, isolate, drop step or jump hook, score. Every time the Aztecs had a post entry pass Wednesday, UNLV waited for our player to make initial contact, then brought over helpside on the interior. IMO, it was the best interior defense the Aztecs have seen so far this year. It was made easier for UNLV to rotate on d because all of their players are playing inside of 17 feet. When Rahon was in, the team seemed to get more looks inside because UNLV had James' defender stretched out pretty far. A prudent threat from outside opens up a lot of other looks in the half court set and can open up a lot of easy buckets in transition. You beat me to it. We shot more from the outside for the same reason you go slow in a traffic jam - because that is all that is available to you at the time. UNLV took a page from Fisher. Remember when we didn't have the inside presence we have now and we use to double the post? UNLV did that. The answer is to kick the ball outside for an open 3 or outside and back in. If we can't hit uncontested 3s, we are in trouble. If there was no clock, I am sure the Aztecs would have shot less 3s. When the defense forces you to take 10-15 seconds to start your offense, you have a lot less time to find the right entry pass and work the inside game once it is there. Cool. I noticed that they were harassing DJ up the court all night, even causing us to have a back-court violation for the first time I can remember this season. I could also see them doubling (or at least threatening the help) any time we threw it down low. It just irked me that our offensive sets seemed to consist of throwing it down inside once, immediately kicking it back out after the inevitable double, then dribbling around until the clock was about to expire and shooting a three. Or passing around the arc until someone was open (usually in the coffin corner) and jacking up a three. We're much too good inside to take as many threes as we do. I understand we're going to get doubled but I think we can use that to our advantage. Have our big guys go inside anyways and either force up a shot and draw a foul, or have the defense collapse so much that we can kick it out for an easier mid-range shot. |
|
|
|
Post by pokinsky on Jan 14, 2011 11:01:58 GMT -8
It sounds like you're clearly blaming the guards for shooting bad 3's when its really the "best forwards in the nation" who are mostly to blame. Against UNLV .. White, Leonard, Shelton and Thomas went a combined 2-10 from 3 (24% on the year, 20-82). I understand that sometimes you need to shoot the open shot within the flow of the game .. but know your range and move in 4-6 feet. Just because you're open does not mean its a good shot .. be patient and move the ball.
The guards (Tap, DJ and JR) are shooting 40% from 3 and should keep shooting.
|
|
|
|
Post by mightymightyaztecs on Jan 14, 2011 11:11:44 GMT -8
It sounds like you're clearly blaming the guards for shooting bad 3's when its really the "best forwards in the nation" who are mostly to blame. Against UNLV .. White, Leonard, Shelton and Thomas went a combined 2-10 from 3 (24% on the year, 20-82). I understand that sometimes you need to shoot the open shot within the flow of the game .. but know your range and move in 4-6 feet. Just because you're open does not mean its a good shot .. be patient and move the ball. The guards (Tap, DJ and JR) are shooting 40% from 3 and should keep shooting. Actually: Even fans around me were yelling that Rahon was open when our bigs were inexplicably taking threes. Can't really hate on Billy in the UNLV game because he sank both of his but I'd much rather that Kawhi, White, Shelton, and Thomas never take threes. That's what we have Tapley and the Riders of Rahon for. |
|
|
|
Post by Borg on Jan 14, 2011 11:19:59 GMT -8
...I also suspect that the Cougs will show you a nice dosage of zone defense to tempt you to start launching shots from the cheap seats.
Hopefully, my aim with my modified long distance "spit wad" straw is on target when the Aztecs come to town, and that it causes you to miss a good majority.
If you see your team constantly slapping the back of their neck in pain and looking around...just look in the bleachers for "the man with the straw"! heh heh.... O yeah, I'm liking this strategy stuff.... it's all coming together.
|
|
|
|
Post by pokinsky on Jan 14, 2011 11:38:18 GMT -8
...I also suspect that the Cougs will show you a nice dosage of zone defense to tempt you to start launching shots from the cheap seats. Hopefully, my aim with my modified long distance "spit wad" straw is on target when the Aztecs come to town, and that it causes you to miss a good majority. If you see your team constantly slapping the back of their neck in pain and looking around...just look in the bleachers for "the man with the straw"! heh heh.... O yeah, I'm liking this strategy stuff.... it's all coming together. BYU plays with great discipline. They're fantastic about pushing players away from the hoop and "allowing" them to shoot over their D ... which usually ends up being a rushed shot because teams get sucked into their tempo. And although they love to run .. BYU's bigs are great at staying back and setting up D in the lane. We will find out soon if our team has a little more discipline than years past. If not .. a 1st round match up with a team like Princeton, we might be 1 and done again? |
|
|
|
Post by AztecBill on Jan 14, 2011 11:50:41 GMT -8
...I also suspect that the Cougs will show you a nice dosage of zone defense to tempt you to start launching shots from the cheap seats. Hopefully, my aim with my modified long distance "spit wad" straw is on target when the Aztecs come to town, and that it causes you to miss a good majority. If you see your team constantly slapping the back of their neck in pain and looking around...just look in the bleachers for "the man with the straw"! heh heh.... O yeah, I'm liking this strategy stuff.... it's all coming together. BYU plays with great discipline. They're fantastic about pushing players away from the hoop and "allowing" them to shoot over their D ... which usually ends up being a rushed shot because teams get sucked into their tempo. And although they love to run .. BYU's bigs are great at staying back and setting up D in the lane. We will find out soon if our team has a little more discipline than years past. If not .. a 1st round match up with a team like Princeton, we might be 1 and done again? Kelvin Davis was a combined 2-11 shooting 3s against BYU last year. This year those shots will be Rahon's. Big difference.
One big key is stopping BYU's fast break. That can be done simply by: 1. Limiting open court turnovers. 2. Getting offensive rebounds. When you get offensive rebounds they don't get the ball to fast break but by getting a lot of offensive rebounds you force the other team to commit more players to stopping that. That limits fast breaks the other way. In the first game the Aztecs dominated the boards and BYU 4 fast break points. In the second game, Kawhi was sick, and the Aztecs only got 4 offensive rebounds and BYU got 20 fast break points. Game 1: 17 offensive rebounds - 4 fast break points. Game 2: 4 offensive rebounds - 20 fast break points. Force BYU to commit at least 4 players to secure defensive rebounds. |
|
|
|
Post by pokinsky on Jan 14, 2011 12:57:01 GMT -8
But we lost both games, even though we got a ton of offensive rebounds (and don't forget Fredette was also sick in the first game). We went away from our interior game and took bad shots because of how they were playing us on D .. and our lack of patience. That has always been the knock on our team ... tremendously talented and athletic, but we take bad shots and make bad turnovers at the worst times.
We always struggle against BYU because they are the usually the most patient and fundamentally sound team in the MWC. I wouldn't be shocked if we only lost 2 conference games this year .. both to BYU.
|
|
|
|
Post by csaztec on Jan 14, 2011 13:17:04 GMT -8
After watching last nights game in detail. I noticed on ALOT of plays that billy, kawhi, and malcolm had a chance to pass back out to Rahon who was wide open and clapping his hands. Instead they forced up a shot or they passed to DJ. They need to start looking for James instead of always looking for DJ.
Rahon needs about 5-6 shots a game. We cant rely on DJ all the time.
|
|
|
|
Post by jcljorgenson on Jan 14, 2011 13:28:28 GMT -8
I don't really like how White, Leonard, Shelton, Carlwell, and now Thomas, seem to be looking for the 3FG on a regular basis.
|
|
