|
Post by OfficialAztecINSIDER on Jan 2, 2011 14:10:38 GMT -8
BAN ALL MASCOTS FROM COLLEGE SPORTS!!! MASCOTS MUST GO!!!
|
|
|
Post by Zuma on Jan 2, 2011 15:07:35 GMT -8
BAN ALL MASCOTS FROM COLLEGE SPORTS!!! MASCOTS MUST GO!!! I LIKE THIS GUY!!!
|
|
|
Post by Steve Aztec on Jan 2, 2011 16:30:54 GMT -8
Mike (Aztec Warrior) has told the admins that he is leaving. There has been no effort to replace him. There is no back up at this time (which was part of the original agreement when the Aztec Warrior was officially named the mascot). Mike (Aztec Warrior) does not want to leave the University high and dry and "may" come back. But he doesn't want to come back. He wants to move on. He will make his decision after the school year. If Mike decides to not come back. There will be no Aztec Warrior, only Zuma. Smoking Gun? Oh yes kickaztec. Sigh. I don't want to respond again. But I will. Mike has been making lots of efforts to find replacements. At least 3 have been interested but we all know our Aztec warrior has to be able to look and act the part and be totally committed. Not easy to find. Mike and Carlos are very invested in trying to find someone to replace Mike, who graduated a year ago. Just because there isn't a replacement now doesn't mean there won't be and zuma is just going to be the sdsu mascot for all time. Steve's random circumstances represent neither causation nor correlation. Maybe there should be ads put out for a new warrior.. I suppose that would help. But let's just stop drumming up random stuff. Or not. I don't give a $#!+. RockShow, it seems your sources are a little off. I just heard back from Carlos (who is a good friend of mine) via e-mail. Here is his reponse to me... ___________________________________________________ From Carlos about 15 minutes ago--
"Yes, I am also concerned. I have not heard anything about anyone who is interested about playing the highly regarded role."___________________________________________________ RockShow, it seems you have been caught in a flat out lie.
|
|
|
Post by Steve Aztec on Jan 2, 2011 16:34:49 GMT -8
It seems that they got rid of Monty and tried to replace him with Ambassadork. He was roundly despised, ridiculed and sent packing. Then with a lot of hard work by a lot of people and some extremely dedicated few we got the Aztec Warrior, a neutered Monty with new threads, no spear and no flame. One supposed to better represent the now extinct Aztec Empire. Why then with Weber leaving and the present Monty moving on with no replacement, except the BYWHO Cougar, do you not at least think that it would be a convenient way for them to take advantage to end the icon Monty and just slide this "kid friendly" shame in. You'd think that if they were smart enough to run a major university( not an athletic department though), and give them 10 years to implement it they could be at there end game. I'm one of those who sat back till it was to late to realize that they would get rid of Monty and feel lucky to at least have the Aztec Warrior. Not saying that all the administration is in on this, or that they are intelligent enough, considering what they did to SDSU athletics in the last 20/30 years. But, you can just keep chiseling away at it till it's gone. Why wait till it's to late to bring this into the light and see if indeed the future. Keep up the good fight Steve. Yes, and let me be perfectly clear on a great point you brought up Fred. It is NOT the entire Administration. Most of the Administration at our school are fantastic. It is a small group (possibly as small as 3 or 4) who happen to be in the right positions to press their ideas on Aztec fans. I also will not sit back and wait for the same thing to happen again. NOW is the time...NOT 2 years from now.
|
|
|
Post by Steve Aztec on Jan 2, 2011 16:37:26 GMT -8
[Mike (the Aztec Warrior) has told the admins that he is leaving. There has been no effort to replace him. There is no back up at this time (which was part of the original agreement when the Aztec Warrior was officially named the mascot). Mike (Aztec Warrior) does not want to leave the University high and dry and "may" come back. But he doesn't want to come back. He wants to move on. He will make his decision after the school year. If Mike decides to not come back. There will be no Aztec Warrior, only Zuma. Steve, I don't doubt what you say about Mike, but if he was to leave and there was no one to replace him, wouldn't there no longer be an Aztec Warrior even without Zuma? Sorry, but I just don't get your logic. I don't understand what you don't get SGF. You need to hire a Warrior one year in advance. It takes that long to get one ready. They are supposed to have a back up at all times, ready to go. We are 8/9 months away from football and we don't have an ad out, there hasn't been any interviews, they have no people interested, and there is no back up. Yet they have Zuma. Smoke---Fire
|
|
|
Post by survalli on Jan 2, 2011 16:43:47 GMT -8
Steve, I don't doubt what you say about Mike, but if he was to leave and there was no one to replace him, wouldn't there no longer be an Aztec Warrior even without Zuma? Sorry, but I just don't get your logic. I don't understand what you don't get SGF. You need to hire a Warrior one year in advance. It takes that long to get one ready. They are supposed to have a back up at all times, ready to go. We are 8/9 months away from football and we don't have an ad out, there hasn't been any interviews, they have no people interested, and there is no back up. Yet they have Zuma. Smoke---Fire with Steve on this one...no Warrior there can be only Zuma. and Zuma in his present form needs to be redesigned if thats all we are going to get.
|
|
|
Post by KickAztec on Jan 2, 2011 16:48:03 GMT -8
Looks to me like the "gang of 4" admins are setting this thing up so they can show a lack of interest by anybody wanting to be Aztec Warrior and going with the BYU cat by default.
Great.
|
|
|
Post by Steve Aztec on Jan 2, 2011 16:56:38 GMT -8
Looks to me like the "gang of 4" admins are setting this thing up so they can show a lack of interest by anybody wanting to be Aztec Warrior and going with the BYU cat by default. Great. A very good possibility KickAztec. The Admins control when an ad goes in for a position for the Warrior and when the interviews are. The fact is there was supposed to be a back at all times since about 5 years ago...so if this situation came up, we would not have to worry.
|
|
|
Post by AztecPhil on Jan 2, 2011 16:57:39 GMT -8
Looks to me like the "gang of 4" admins are setting this thing up so they can show a lack of interest by anybody wanting to be Aztec Warrior and going with the BYU cat by default. Great. And I thought we were trying to steal CSU-San Marcos' mascot.
|
|
|
Post by aztecwin on Jan 2, 2011 17:04:30 GMT -8
Looks to me like the "gang of 4" admins are setting this thing up so they can show a lack of interest by anybody wanting to be Aztec Warrior and going with the BYU cat by default. Great. A very good possibility KickAztec. The Admins control when an ad goes in for a position for the Warrior and when the interviews are. The fact is there was supposed to be a back at all times since about 5 years ago...so if this situation came up, we would not have to worry. How do we identify this gang of three or four and how do we exert enough leverage to make sure they are marginalized to the point they would have little or no say in this issue? Withholding money or that kind of action or threat of action is distasteful to me but if that is the only leverage we have............
|
|
|
Post by survalli on Jan 2, 2011 17:04:33 GMT -8
Looks to me like the "gang of 4" admins are setting this thing up so they can show a lack of interest by anybody wanting to be Aztec Warrior and going with the BYU cat by default. Great. And I thought we were trying to steal CSU-San Marcos' mascot.i hear the Cougar on the left is good with kids.
|
|
|
Post by Steve Aztec on Jan 2, 2011 17:07:26 GMT -8
A very good possibility KickAztec. The Admins control when an ad goes in for a position for the Warrior and when the interviews are. The fact is there was supposed to be a back at all times since about 5 years ago...so if this situation came up, we would not have to worry. How do we identify this gang of three or four and how do we exert enough leverage to make sure they are marginalized to the point they would have little or no say in this issue? Withholding money or that kind of action or threat of action is distasteful to me but if that is the only leverage we have............ I think you could start by e-mailing or calling Jim Herrick and Steve Schnall. That would be a nice start. I will also find out this week who is the President of the Aztec Warrior Board (the mascot committee).
|
|
|
Post by onelittleindian on Jan 2, 2011 17:26:00 GMT -8
Someone a few weeks ago on The show board said it best: X X X X the elderly Embarrassing and ignorant commentary of your fellow Aztecs. If you're really as involved as you claim/seem to be you'd realize that the "elderly" provided most of the necessary financial support and the "students" provide most of the energy. Without one the other is pretty useless. (note: I'm a 30-something, not elderly)
|
|
|
Post by aztectone on Jan 2, 2011 17:47:02 GMT -8
Someone a few weeks ago on The show board said it best: X X X X the elderly Your an idiot and I am embarrased to be in your generation. The young people do not all feel this way. You do realize the older guys on here were responsible for sending the show to the NIT game in NYC. way to represent
|
|
|
Post by Steve Aztec on Jan 2, 2011 17:51:08 GMT -8
Someone a few weeks ago on The show board said it best: X X X X the elderly Your an idiot and I am embarrased to be in your generation. The young people do not all feel this way. You do realize the older guys on here were responsible for sending the show to the NIT game in NYC. way to represent Yes Tone and I was one of them. I donated $100. Never did I think I would see the comments I have from these guys. Never again for me. I had close friends who said I shouldn't donate to that cause. I would have to now say that my friends were correct.
|
|
|
Post by Steve Aztec on Jan 2, 2011 17:52:22 GMT -8
From The Former Director, Aztec Warrior Foundation www.aztecmesa.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=ats&action=display&thread=7767--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I have stayed quiet on this Zuma issue but Steve Anderson is my friend so perhaps it is time for me to join the fray and give you my opinion. Here is some history for you to consider. These are facts, not hear say. In 2001, when the two student groups MEChA and NASA complained about the use of a human depiction as a mascot, Dr. Weber commissioned the preparation of a White Paper on the issue. www.themwc.com/genrel/050301aaa.htmlAfter the White Paper was issued, Dr. Weber then commissioned a vote of the student body. No one has ever been able to explain why he went to the effort and expense of holding this plebiscite because immediately thereafter he overturned the referendum and announced that Monty Montezuma would be banned. He then commissioned the creation of the Ambassador. Large sums of money were spent on this creation. As we all remember, that went over like a lead balloon and the Ambassador lasted less than one year. The uniform was retired and the student that portrayed the regal Montezuma was hired by the Alumni Association to make up for him losing his job as the Ambassador. Then a new mascot committee was formed in 2002 and they held a public forum where they requested input and suggestions. At that forum one of the eventual members of the Aztec Warrior Foundation spoke and presented the following image and suggested that only the name Montezuma be removed and instead, the school should just call the SDSU mascot the Aztec Warrior. www.mexicanceramic.com/folk/caballero.htmDoes this look familiar to anyone? I thought so. Anyway, on that committee was a member of the athletic department, Steve Schnall. He proposed a stuffed animal character, either a jaguar or an eagle, as those were two ranks of warriors within Aztec culture. The committee was unable to come to a final recommendation, but leaks from committee members let it be known that an animal was likely to become the new mascot. Upon hearing these rumors, a small group of people met and came up with the idea of creating a non-profit foundation to try and raise money to save Monty. They applied for charitable, tax-exempt status with the IRS and that was granted in July 2002. The Aztec Warrior Foundation hired Carlos Gutierrez and paid for the creation of a new uniform. We made a point of NOT using the name Monty or Montezuma, and tried to conform to the requirements set forth in that initial White Paper. We launched a pre-emptive strike against the creation of an animal mascot by presenting our own, un-official Aztec Warrior mascot. Once Carlos appeared at that first football game in the new uniform, there was no way that the University could adopt an animal mascot. A two-year struggle began. Everyone but a small handful of administration personnel supported our struggle. The most adamant opponent of our efforts was Mr. Steve Schnall. He gave the orders that Carlos was never to be shown on the big screen at Qualcomm and he had his security goon (Spiller) harass our group at every turn. We persevered. Finally, after several meetings behind the scenes with Dr. Weber, the Aztec Warrior Foundation agreed to support the creation of a new mascot. The design was by the University’s art department. Thus was born the “Bird-Head” uniform. For those of you who do not remember, check out page 4 of the Spring 2004 issue of 360 Magazine (link follows): advancement.sdsu.edu/marcomm/360/images/360sp04.pdfThis image was put to a second vote, this time allowing input from both student and Alumni Association Members. It was overwhelmingly approved. Our group did not particularly like it, but agreed that a Warrior of any kind was better than nothing. Carlos was hired for a two-year stint as part of our contract with the University. Also a part of the agreement between the AWF and SDSU was the creation of the Aztec Warrior committee of the SDSU Alumni Association. We were given four seats on this committee, athletics received three seats and alumni received three seats. Steve Schall represented the athletic department and was one of their three members. The committee was charged with hiring the Aztec Warrior, paying for the uniform AND the salary of the warrior with no financial support from athletics or the university. Budgetary constraints always were the stated reasons for not supporting the warrior financially. It even took three years of begging to get Steve Schnall to put a “check-the-box” donation request on football ticket renewals. During the first two years, much of the money to finance the mascot came from personal donations from former AWF board members. Later, the committee members found memorabilia items and held silent auctions at the Monty’s awards ceremonies, the proceeds of which continued to fund the Warrior. SDSU never had a budget item for the mascot during this time. They still do not. There was never any money for it. The Alumni Association had to pony up the funds. The SDSU AA Warrior committee modified the original uniform and it evolved to the one we have today. We used as our support and inspiration the historical figure of an Aztec Eagle Warrior discovered at the Templo Mayor in Mexico City. www.flickr.com/photos/ilhuicamina/2159366077/At one of the Alumni Association Warrior board meetings during the first couple of years, Steve Schnall presented an idea for a stuffed animal “supplemental” character mascot. It was voted down by the committee. Frankly, most of us just didn’t trust him and we still don’t. Fast forward to 2010. Brian Sipe volunteered to work on bringing some fresh ideas for reestablishing a game day experience for Aztec football. He presented those ideas to the committee. His ideas were great! However, re-introduced at the same time and made to look like a Brian Sipe idea was Zuma. But Zuma was NOT Brian Sipe's idea. However, the committee could not say “no” to Brian Sipe and so, without any public comment or hearing, Zuma was thrust onto the stage. Money was conveniently found to pay for it and its uniform. SDSU is spending real money on Zuma. They cut professors and academics and athletics (mostly women's) and then cry poverty, but Zuma IS funded. Yet, SDSU has never spent any money on the Aztec Warrior. He was always paid for with private funds or Alumni Association funding. If you don’t believe me, ask Jim Herrick, executive director of the SDSU Alumni Association. He will confirm that Mike (the current Aztec Warrior) and all previous warriors has/have been a budget item of the Alumni Association. NOT Athletics, and NOT academics! Alumni!!! But Zuma is paid for by University funds. Seems to me that kind of makes Zuma the official SDSU mascot. Out of respect for those involved, I will not name the persons who participated in the conversation (they can step forward if they like) but a member of the AWF was told by an ex officio member of the Alumni Warrior Board committee and a university administration official that we had been duped by the Zuma proponents. Steve Schnall is only an assistant athletic director BUT apparently the sole decider of who or what will be SDSU’s mascot. Who gave him this authority? I don’t know, but it appears that many are too apathetic to care. Remember, one of the primary arguments against keeping Monty Montezuma was that using the name “Monty” was disrespectful to the historical personage known as Montezuma II. That argument was echoed in the original White Paper and again in the negotiations we had for a new mascot to be called simply the “Aztec Warrior” and then again in the press releases issued by the University. YET, “Zuma” is not disrespectful? How can the University talk out of both sides of their mouth at the same time? They have no problem with a furry stuffed animal prancing around and using a nickname for Montezuma but heaven forbid we call our warrior “Monty”. SO… Is Steve Anderson paranoid? You make up your own mind. But I personally think not, and I will not be surprised if the Aztec Warrior quietly disappears. Rulon Jenson Former Director, Aztec Warrior Foundation
|
|
|
Post by ourtime on Jan 2, 2011 18:51:39 GMT -8
Just wanted to do my part to keep a six page turd rolling along.
Edit: Make that 7!!
|
|
|
Post by joshjones1 on Jan 2, 2011 19:23:27 GMT -8
How do we identify this gang of three or four and how do we exert enough leverage to make sure they are marginalized to the point they would have little or no say in this issue? Withholding money or that kind of action or threat of action is distasteful to me but if that is the only leverage we have............ I think you could start by e-mailing or calling Jim Herrick and Steve Schnall. That would be a nice start. I will also find out this week who is the President of the Aztec Warrior Board (the mascot committee). Steve, As connected and in (still "good friends with most of them") as you said you were, I am quite surprised you don't know who heads the committee already. Just sayin. Josh, you have to be kidding me.
Some of my best friends are on the mascot committee. I was on the committee for 3 years.
There are about 7 people in this town that know the Mascot issue inside and out. I am one of those 7.
Why the hell do people think I post on this issue? And are there really people out there that DON'T think I know the issue?
|
|
|
Post by joshjones1 on Jan 2, 2011 19:26:29 GMT -8
From The Former Director, Aztec Warrior Foundation www.aztecmesa.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=ats&action=display&thread=7767--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I have stayed quiet on this Zuma issue but Steve Anderson is my friend so perhaps it is time for me to join the fray and give you my opinion. Here is some history for you to consider. These are facts, not hear say. In 2001, when the two student groups MEChA and NASA complained about the use of a human depiction as a mascot, Dr. Weber commissioned the preparation of a White Paper on the issue. www.themwc.com/genrel/050301aaa.htmlAfter the White Paper was issued, Dr. Weber then commissioned a vote of the student body. No one has ever been able to explain why he went to the effort and expense of holding this plebiscite because immediately thereafter he overturned the referendum and announced that Monty Montezuma would be banned. He then commissioned the creation of the Ambassador. Large sums of money were spent on this creation. As we all remember, that went over like a lead balloon and the Ambassador lasted less than one year. The uniform was retired and the student that portrayed the regal Montezuma was hired by the Alumni Association to make up for him losing his job as the Ambassador. Then a new mascot committee was formed in 2002 and they held a public forum where they requested input and suggestions. At that forum one of the eventual members of the Aztec Warrior Foundation spoke and presented the following image and suggested that only the name Montezuma be removed and instead, the school should just call the SDSU mascot the Aztec Warrior. www.mexicanceramic.com/folk/caballero.htmDoes this look familiar to anyone? I thought so. Anyway, on that committee was a member of the athletic department, Steve Schnall. He proposed a stuffed animal character, either a jaguar or an eagle, as those were two ranks of warriors within Aztec culture. The committee was unable to come to a final recommendation, but leaks from committee members let it be known that an animal was likely to become the new mascot. Upon hearing these rumors, a small group of people met and came up with the idea of creating a non-profit foundation to try and raise money to save Monty. They applied for charitable, tax-exempt status with the IRS and that was granted in July 2002. The Aztec Warrior Foundation hired Carlos Gutierrez and paid for the creation of a new uniform. We made a point of NOT using the name Monty or Montezuma, and tried to conform to the requirements set forth in that initial White Paper. We launched a pre-emptive strike against the creation of an animal mascot by presenting our own, un-official Aztec Warrior mascot. Once Carlos appeared at that first football game in the new uniform, there was no way that the University could adopt an animal mascot. A two-year struggle began. Everyone but a small handful of administration personnel supported our struggle. The most adamant opponent of our efforts was Mr. Steve Schnall. He gave the orders that Carlos was never to be shown on the big screen at Qualcomm and he had his security goon (Spiller) harass our group at every turn. We persevered. Finally, after several meetings behind the scenes with Dr. Weber, the Aztec Warrior Foundation agreed to support the creation of a new mascot. The design was by the University’s art department. Thus was born the “Bird-Head” uniform. For those of you who do not remember, check out page 4 of the Spring 2004 issue of 360 Magazine (link follows): advancement.sdsu.edu/marcomm/360/images/360sp04.pdfThis image was put to a second vote, this time allowing input from both student and Alumni Association Members. It was overwhelmingly approved. Our group did not particularly like it, but agreed that a Warrior of any kind was better than nothing. Carlos was hired for a two-year stint as part of our contract with the University. Also a part of the agreement between the AWF and SDSU was the creation of the Aztec Warrior committee of the SDSU Alumni Association. We were given four seats on this committee, athletics received three seats and alumni received three seats. Steve Schall represented the athletic department and was one of their three members. The committee was charged with hiring the Aztec Warrior, paying for the uniform AND the salary of the warrior with no financial support from athletics or the university. Budgetary constraints always were the stated reasons for not supporting the warrior financially. It even took three years of begging to get Steve Schnall to put a “check-the-box” donation request on football ticket renewals. During the first two years, much of the money to finance the mascot came from personal donations from former AWF board members. Later, the committee members found memorabilia items and held silent auctions at the Monty’s awards ceremonies, the proceeds of which continued to fund the Warrior. SDSU never had a budget item for the mascot during this time. They still do not. There was never any money for it. The Alumni Association had to pony up the funds. The SDSU AA Warrior committee modified the original uniform and it evolved to the one we have today. We used as our support and inspiration the historical figure of an Aztec Eagle Warrior discovered at the Templo Mayor in Mexico City. www.flickr.com/photos/ilhuicamina/2159366077/At one of the Alumni Association Warrior board meetings during the first couple of years, Steve Schnall presented an idea for a stuffed animal “supplemental” character mascot. It was voted down by the committee. Frankly, most of us just didn’t trust him and we still don’t. Fast forward to 2010. Brian Sipe volunteered to work on bringing some fresh ideas for reestablishing a game day experience for Aztec football. He presented those ideas to the committee. His ideas were great! However, re-introduced at the same time and made to look like a Brian Sipe idea was Zuma. But Zuma was NOT Brian Sipe's idea. However, the committee could not say “no” to Brian Sipe and so, without any public comment or hearing, Zuma was thrust onto the stage. Money was conveniently found to pay for it and its uniform. SDSU is spending real money on Zuma. They cut professors and academics and athletics (mostly women's) and then cry poverty, but Zuma IS funded. Yet, SDSU has never spent any money on the Aztec Warrior. He was always paid for with private funds or Alumni Association funding. If you don’t believe me, ask Jim Herrick, executive director of the SDSU Alumni Association. He will confirm that Mike (the current Aztec Warrior) and all previous warriors has/have been a budget item of the Alumni Association. NOT Athletics, and NOT academics! Alumni!!! But Zuma is paid for by University funds. Seems to me that kind of makes Zuma the official SDSU mascot. Out of respect for those involved, I will not name the persons who participated in the conversation (they can step forward if they like) but a member of the AWF was told by an ex officio member of the Alumni Warrior Board committee and a university administration official that we had been duped by the Zuma proponents. Steve Schnall is only an assistant athletic director BUT apparently the sole decider of who or what will be SDSU’s mascot. Who gave him this authority? I don’t know, but it appears that many are too apathetic to care. Remember, one of the primary arguments against keeping Monty Montezuma was that using the name “Monty” was disrespectful to the historical personage known as Montezuma II. That argument was echoed in the original White Paper and again in the negotiations we had for a new mascot to be called simply the “Aztec Warrior” and then again in the press releases issued by the University. YET, “Zuma” is not disrespectful? How can the University talk out of both sides of their mouth at the same time? They have no problem with a furry stuffed animal prancing around and using a nickname for Montezuma but heaven forbid we call our warrior “Monty”. SO… Is Steve Anderson paranoid? You make up your own mind. But I personally think not, and I will not be surprised if the Aztec Warrior quietly disappears. Rulon Jenson Former Director, Aztec Warrior Foundation Never met, never seen Mr. Steve Schnall. But reading the boards over the years, and collecting information, he seems like a guy I most likely would NOT like.
|
|
|
Post by joshjones1 on Jan 2, 2011 19:32:02 GMT -8
Steve,
I will shoot an email to Schnall and Herrick with my strong objection to the "phasing out" or any general reduction of the Warrior's duties.
I'll be one person letting them know I won't be a season ticket holder in 2011 for football with no Warrior.
|
|