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Post by uwaztec on May 12, 2010 13:14:18 GMT -8
O.K.... guys on the Right, please explain to me how this guy's audience buys his absolute horse crap. I just came back from the gym and heard him on the radio. He is blaming Obama and specifically NOAA for the oil spill and subsequent damage. He says, since NOAA approved the "plan" in case of an oil spill of this magnitude, NOAA and the US Government is responsible. So, the Right hates environmental regulations and wants as many permits given out as possible, then when there is a problem, its the government's fault?? As far as I know, the applicant (BP) is responsible for emergency response as far as the immediate blowout and containment is concerned. I don't think the Government has an entire department dedicated to oil spill clean-up and contingency plans. Do people like Hannity and Limbaugh have educated audiences or do they buy what is basically a fabrication?
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Post by aztecwin on May 12, 2010 13:28:23 GMT -8
These things can be spinned many ways. Don't you think it would be better to try to find a way to prevent these kind of things rather than Hannity blaming Obama for his week or so of inaction and inattention and BP not having a well thought out plan with equipment at the ready just for such a contingency?
We need to foster a friendly atmosphere where folks work together to prevent or rapidly respond to this kind of disaster.
We need the energy but we need a higher level of confidence that environmental disasters will not occur.
Hannity is not an idiot, he is merely pinning the tail on the Donkey that is the general enemy of progress and national prosperity in his eyes. Nothing strange about that. I like to do the same thing when I can find a reason to blame Algore for anything.
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Post by uwaztec on May 12, 2010 14:06:04 GMT -8
I don't know exactly what you are saying here Win? BP did have a "plan".. it just wasn't adequate to deal with this type of blow-out at that depth. Please explain the "inaction" by Obama? The oil industry are the experts in these situations and their response is what is followed. You talk about working for a common goal and "getting along"... you are joking right?? People like Hannity foster exactly the opposite with misinformation and "bogey men".
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Post by uwaztec on May 12, 2010 14:07:43 GMT -8
These things can be spinned many ways. Don't you think it would be better to try to find a way to prevent these kind of things rather than Hannity blaming Obama for his week or so of inaction and inattention and BP not having a well thought out plan with equipment at the ready just for such a contingency? We need to foster a friendly atmosphere where folks work together to prevent or rapidly respond to this kind of disaster. We need the energy but we need a higher level of confidence that environmental disasters will not occur. Hannity is not an idiot, he is merely pinning the tail on the Donkey that is the general enemy of progress and national prosperity in his eyes. Nothing strange about that. I like to do the same thing when I can find a reason to blame Algore for anything. ps... Hannity is not an idiot only because he knows how to make millions of dollars by fostering fear and loathing. |
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Post by ptsdthor on May 12, 2010 15:49:29 GMT -8
O.K.... guys on the Right, please explain to me how this guy's audience buys his absolute horse crap. I just came back from the gym and heard him on the radio. He is blaming Obama and specifically NOAA for the oil spill and subsequent damage. He says, since NOAA approved the "plan" in case of an oil spill of this magnitude, NOAA and the US Government is responsible. So, the Right hates environmental regulations and wants as many permits given out as possible, then when there is a problem, its the government's fault?? As far as I know, the applicant (BP) is responsible for emergency response as far as the immediate blowout and containment is concerned. I don't think the Government has an entire department dedicated to oil spill clean-up and contingency plans. Do people like Hannity and Limbaugh have educated audiences or do they buy what is basically a fabrication? Rather, Hannity is a loyal partisan. You can find article after article claiming it was Bush and his FEMA's failure to plan correctly for the inevitability of a Katrina sized hurricane making land at New Orleans that caused the real problems with providing relief effectively to the gulf coast after the storm. To the extent that the Bush Admin lacked adequate clairvoyance in that case, you could say that Obama and the NOAA agency that he directs also lacked a similar amount of clairvoyance in this current spill. Don't tell me - Bush's failure to plan correctly for a hurricane in the gulf was real and directly related to his incompetence and Obama's failure to plan correctly for the oil spill in the gulf is non-existent.  Its just tit for tat, nothing more. |
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Post by davdesid on May 12, 2010 15:57:12 GMT -8
It's "pin the tail on the donkey" for sure. Remember the "Heck of a job, Brownie" firestorm, when it was Nagin and Blanco who were supposed to be the jackasses in charge? What goes around, comes around, and now it's the braying donkeys' turn in the barrel. gotta love it...  |
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Post by AztecWilliam on May 12, 2010 16:00:18 GMT -8
Sean Hannity is an amiable guy but not well educated in my opinion. He is extremely partisan (i.e. pro-GOP), although lately he has tried to sound more libertarian/conservative than strictly Republican. (The same things can be said of Rush Limbaugh. Neither went to college and it shows in both cases. Furthermore, in both cases there is seldom evidence that they are seriously willing to listen to different viewpoints.)
I much prefer listening to the likes of Michael Medved and Dennis Prager, both of whom know at least five times as much about almost everything than does Hannity. They (especially Medved) are also pretty partisan, but their much superior intellect and personal store of knowledge make them far more interesting to listen to. (Please keep in mind that being extremely well educated and knowledgeable does not always make one's positions and opinions correct.)
AzWm
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Post by uwaztec on May 12, 2010 16:42:57 GMT -8
It's "pin the tail on the donkey" for sure. Remember the "Heck of a job, Brownie" firestorm, when it was Nagin and Blanco who were supposed to be the jackasses in charge? What goes around, comes around, and now it's the braying donkeys' turn in the barrel. gotta love it... Look Sid..it would be nice to get the truth for once! Telling millions of listeners what are basically lies about a major environmental disaster is unethical and actually dangerous. I agree regarding Katrina and please dig deep if you can find one post from me blaming the Bush administration...because you won't find one. |
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Post by uwaztec on May 12, 2010 16:46:33 GMT -8
Sean Hannity is an amiable guy but not well educated in my opinion. He is extremely partisan (i.e. pro-GOP), although lately he has tried to sound more libertarian/conservative than strictly Republican. (The same things can be said of Rush Limbaugh. Neither went to college and it shows in both cases. Furthermore, in both cases there is seldom evidence that they are seriously willing to listen to different viewpoints.) I much prefer listening to the likes of Michael Medved and Dennis Prager, both of whom know at least five times as much about almost everything than does Hannity. They (especially Medved) are also pretty partisan, but their much superior intellect and personal store of knowledge make them far more interesting to listen to. (Please keep in mind that being extremely well educated and knowledgeable does not always make one's positions and opinions correct.) AzWm This is actually a great response to my post. I like Medved... I'm really just looking for some intellectual truth here. Sometimes when Beck or a guy like Hannity attacks "intellectualism" ... I get the feeling that they are really happy that their audience cannot think for themselves. |
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Post by aztecwin on May 12, 2010 17:11:35 GMT -8
I don't know exactly what you are saying here Win? BP did have a "plan".. it just wasn't adequate to deal with this type of blow-out at that depth. Please explain the "inaction" by Obama? The oil industry are the experts in these situations and their response is what is followed. You talk about working for a common goal and "getting along"... you are joking right?? People like Hannity foster exactly the opposite with misinformation and "bogey men". I am not joking or telling you anything that is not true. I am telling you what the position of people like Hannity is and why it is that way. Most partisans will find a way to hold their opponents responsible for bad weather. It is almost as if you can never see anything related to Hannity in any light other than blind opposition to his view no matter what the subject. Do you remember when Ralm Emanuel said you can never let a good crisis go to waste? Hannity is trying to do just that but you seem outraged when it is a Conservative rather than a Chicago mobster doing the deed. (Just how you read and react to that statement might give you a clue as to your own blindside.) Obama's inaction was just that. He made not a peep for a week. Maybe he was right. Maybe he should have activated FEMA or initiated some quick response team. His inaction was jumped on by Hannity as a sign of being frozen at the wheel for lack of an idea of what to do. Was it a fact? Yes! Was it wrong? I don't know! From a partisan point of view you can never let a chink in your oppositions armor go unexploited. Your reaction is hardly what would be call reasonable but it is what I expect and not a reason to get excited. I see it as a reaction to a button that was pushed and most likely what Hannity was going for in the beginning. What do you think of what is being made of tyeing Obama's silence to the huge amount of political contribution made to him by BP? You see these issues are never just black and white and it should only be expected that people paint them the color that they feel can benefit their cause. |
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Post by AztecWilliam on May 12, 2010 17:53:16 GMT -8
Beck is an interesting case. He has, in my view, some interesting things to say but goes a bit too far into the area of global conspiracy.
There is one thing that Beck, Limbaugh, and Hannity all have in common. Each has had a rough road to travel before achieving success. Each has picked up street smarts rather than Ivy League polish.
Look, there are real nut cases on the Left, some of whom DO have Ivy League polish, who say inflammatory things every bit as nutty as the worst things said on the Right. On the whole, the successful radio/TV voices on the Right are closer to what the bulk of America believes. By "bulk of America" I mean those from just barely to the left of center all the way over to just short of Ron Paul (and maybe me! ;D. And remember, I said "closer to what the bulk of America believes."
AzWm
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Post by uwaztec on May 12, 2010 18:12:12 GMT -8
I don't know exactly what you are saying here Win? BP did have a "plan".. it just wasn't adequate to deal with this type of blow-out at that depth. Please explain the "inaction" by Obama? The oil industry are the experts in these situations and their response is what is followed. You talk about working for a common goal and "getting along"... you are joking right?? People like Hannity foster exactly the opposite with misinformation and "bogey men". I am not joking or telling you anything that is not true. I am telling you what the position of people like Hannity is and why it is that way. Most partisans will find a way to hold their opponents responsible for bad weather. It is almost as if you can never see anything related to Hannity in any light other than blind opposition to his view no matter what the subject. Do you remember when Ralm Emanuel said you can never let a good crisis go to waste? Hannity is trying to do just that but you seem outraged when it is a Conservative rather than a Chicago mobster doing the deed. (Just how you read and react to that statement might give you a clue as to your own blindside.) Obama's inaction was just that. He made not a peep for a week. Maybe he was right. Maybe he should have activated FEMA or initiated some quick response team. His inaction was jumped on by Hannity as a sign of being frozen at the wheel for lack of an idea of what to do. Was it a fact? Yes! Was it wrong? I don't know! From a partisan point of view you can never let a chink in your oppositions armor go unexploited. Your reaction is hardly what would be call reasonable but it is what I expect and not a reason to get excited. I see it as a reaction to a button that was pushed and most likely what Hannity was going for in the beginning. What do you think of what is being made of tyeing Obama's silence to the huge amount of political contribution made to him by BP? You see these issues are never just black and white and it should only be expected that people paint them the color that they feel can benefit their cause. Win, I still don't get what you are saying... I guess if I had a talk show I could say the earth is flat. Look, I have only one real area of expertise, and that's the environment. And that is from many perspectives and from many years working in the buis. You will notice, other than trashing BYU, I rarely get worked up unless it is about this subject. I don't think Obama's reaction to this has anything to do with his relationship with BP. What would you have done in this situation? You have to go with what BP is telling you...what else do you have to go on? Would you have sent an independent contractor's submersible down there to corroborate the situation? |
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Post by uwaztec on May 12, 2010 18:15:31 GMT -8
Beck is an interesting case. He has, in my view, some interesting things to say but goes a bit too far into the area of global conspiracy. There is one thing that Beck, Limbaugh, and Hannity all have in common. Each has had a rough road to travel before achieving success. Each has picked up street smarts rather than Ivy League polish. Look, there are real nut cases on the Left, some of whom DO have Ivy League polish, who say inflammatory things every bit as nutty as the worst things said on the Right. On the whole, the successful radio/TV voices on the Right are closer to what the bulk of America believes. By "bulk of America" I mean those from just barely to the left of center all the way over to just short of Ron Paul (and maybe me! ;D. And remember, I said " closer to what the bulk of America believes." AzWm You are wrong here William... Beck, Hannity, Limbaugh.. 35% of Americans Max. Olberman etc... maybe 20-25 %.... |
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Post by aztecwin on May 12, 2010 18:50:19 GMT -8
I am not joking or telling you anything that is not true. I am telling you what the position of people like Hannity is and why it is that way. Most partisans will find a way to hold their opponents responsible for bad weather. It is almost as if you can never see anything related to Hannity in any light other than blind opposition to his view no matter what the subject. Do you remember when Ralm Emanuel said you can never let a good crisis go to waste? Hannity is trying to do just that but you seem outraged when it is a Conservative rather than a Chicago mobster doing the deed. (Just how you read and react to that statement might give you a clue as to your own blindside.) Obama's inaction was just that. He made not a peep for a week. Maybe he was right. Maybe he should have activated FEMA or initiated some quick response team. His inaction was jumped on by Hannity as a sign of being frozen at the wheel for lack of an idea of what to do. Was it a fact? Yes! Was it wrong? I don't know! From a partisan point of view you can never let a chink in your oppositions armor go unexploited. Your reaction is hardly what would be call reasonable but it is what I expect and not a reason to get excited. I see it as a reaction to a button that was pushed and most likely what Hannity was going for in the beginning. What do you think of what is being made of tyeing Obama's silence to the huge amount of political contribution made to him by BP? You see these issues are never just black and white and it should only be expected that people paint them the color that they feel can benefit their cause. Win, I still don't get what you are saying... I guess if I had a talk show I could say the earth is flat. Look, I have only one real area of expertise, and that's the environment. And that is from many perspectives and from many years working in the buis. You will notice, other than trashing BYU, I rarely get worked up unless it is about this subject. I don't think Obama's reaction to this has anything to do with his relationship with BP. What would you have done in this situation? You have to go with what BP is telling you...what else do you have to go on? Would you have sent an independent contractor's submersible down there to corroborate the situation? You don't think Obama's lack of action had anything to do with BP? Well, I don't either. What I am saying is that people with an agenda will spin things to their own advantage. This big spill should be handled beyond politics, but it will not. We should be looking at ways to mitigate and prevent while continuing to work toward energy independence through every safe within reason way possible. |
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Post by AztecWilliam on May 12, 2010 21:40:30 GMT -8
Beck is an interesting case. He has, in my view, some interesting things to say but goes a bit too far into the area of global conspiracy. There is one thing that Beck, Limbaugh, and Hannity all have in common. Each has had a rough road to travel before achieving success. Each has picked up street smarts rather than Ivy League polish. Look, there are real nut cases on the Left, some of whom DO have Ivy League polish, who say inflammatory things every bit as nutty as the worst things said on the Right. On the whole, the successful radio/TV voices on the Right are closer to what the bulk of America believes. By "bulk of America" I mean those from just barely to the left of center all the way over to just short of Ron Paul (and maybe me! ;D. And remember, I said " closer to what the bulk of America believes." AzWm You are wrong here William... Beck, Hannity, Limbaugh.. 35% of Americans Max. Olberman etc... maybe 20-25 %.... I think your estimates are on the low side for Beck et al, and a bit on the high side for Olberman. Olberman is to the left what Savage is to the right. The kind of thing that I believe the bulk of Americans have in common with Hannity, Beck, and a number of others of their kind are as follows: 1. Congress should not be passing 2000 plus page bills that no one has read or understood. 2. The federal government should do something serious about enforcing border security. (BTW, have you heard that Obama has reduced the number of candidates going through Border Patrol training?) 3. The POTUS should not be going around bowing and scraping to foreign leaders while apologizing for his country. 4. The feds should make a serious attempt to limit spending and reduce the national debt. 5. The fed. govt. should not supersede existing laws and procedures as in the case of the GM bankruptcy, in which creditors with valid claims were tossed aside so that supporters (in this case the UAW) of the party in power could be given a huge stake in the company. 6. The POTUS should not demonize companies or other groups (e.g. the police force in the case that lead to the Beer Summit). If any company has broken a law, that company should be prosecuted; beyond that the President has no business singling out companies, groups, individuals, or states for special criticism. That sort of action is what Hugo Chavez is infamous for. 7. The party in power should uphold the law, protect the homeland, and not try to "transform" the country. It's up to the citizens, in their day-to-day dealings with one another, to transform the country. The people want to be governed, not ruled. The Limbaughs and Hannitys of today's media would not be successful if a very substantial portion of this country's citizens were not concerned about the general direction of the government, which is the direction headed for more and more power by the feds over our lives and treasure. AzWm |
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Post by davdesid on May 13, 2010 13:03:29 GMT -8
Look, the Limbaughs, Hannitys, Olbermanns and Maddows of this world can't do a damned thing to me.
They can't recall me to active duty and send me to Afghanistan, they can't send my kids or grandkids off to war, they can't raise my taxes, they can't "ef" with my health care choices, they can't disarm me, they can't tell me what kind of car I can buy, and there are a whole lot of other things they can't do to me.
If anyone doesn't like what they have to say, turn the power to "off", or change the channel.
Bitching about them, and wanting them to be silenced, shows a lack of confidence in the general public, and seems a bit paternalistic... if not tyrannical.
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Post by AztecWilliam on May 13, 2010 18:01:55 GMT -8
Look, the Limbaughs, Hannitys, Olbermanns and Maddows of this world can't do a damned thing to me. They can't recall me to active duty and send me to Afghanistan, they can't send my kids or grandkids off to war, they can't raise my taxes, they can't "ef" with my health care choices, they can't disarm me, they can't tell me what kind of car I can buy, and there are a whole lot of other things they can't do to me. If anyone doesn't like what they have to say, turn the power to "off", or change the channel. Bitching about them, and wanting them to be silenced, shows a lack of confidence in the general public, and seems a bit paternalistic... if not tyrannical. Quite true. I don't think that it's over the top to fear that what the current administration is doing will lead to much greater federal intrusion into the lives of the average citizen plus a diminution of individual liberties. Why do they want to do that? Well, it's all for the general good, don't forget. And remember, you can't make an omelet without breaking eggs. Too bad that the eggs to be broken (which includes virtually everybody who is not either super rich or a member of a group favored by the administration) are us. AzWm |
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Post by uwaztec on May 13, 2010 19:47:41 GMT -8
Well I see you guys are generally apologists for Hannity stating that "NOAA is reponsible for implementing the oil spill cleanup plan" Why can't you guys address the thread? I get the right versus left thing... but it's boring at this point. Oh well....this thread got a lot of action... I guess that's a good thing. Oh, by the way...the Earth is flat. |
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Post by aztecwin on May 14, 2010 10:44:10 GMT -8
It seems to me that you are just not willing to listen to anything that would place part of the blame on government. You must understand that the politics of the issue is the blame game. I just heard that BP is willing to shoulder the entire cost of the cleanup. That does say something about them. You must surely admit that if NOAA is as effective as the SEC and the Dept of Education that the regulations for drilling are probably inadequate. You can hardly blame the oil companies for following the rules.
I for one just want to see the thing resolved and better safeguards in place for future drilling of wells. It just takes Mother Nature too long to heal the damage and overcome the further damage done in clean up efforts.
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Post by uwaztec on May 14, 2010 11:29:04 GMT -8
It seems to me that you are just not willing to listen to anything that would place part of the blame on government. You must understand that the politics of the issue is the blame game. I just heard that BP is willing to shoulder the entire cost of the cleanup. That does say something about them. You must surely admit that if NOAA is as effective as the SEC and the Dept of Education that the regulations for drilling are probably inadequate. You can hardly blame the oil companies for following the rules. I for one just want to see the thing resolved and better safeguards in place for future drilling of wells. It just takes Mother Nature too long to heal the damage and overcome the further damage done in clean up efforts. Win... I used to work for Government. I know how the permitting process works.... please. BP has a good record. Our system is the best in the World. This was an unfortunate accident that will have to be analyzed to see what went wrong. We can't afford accidents to this level. My original point was about an uninformed (and uneducated) talk show host talking out of his ass to a huge audience and feeding them absolute crap.. that's it. |
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