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Post by Den60 on May 17, 2021 16:33:37 GMT -8
What would it take to become a Research 1 university? Are we getting closer? Is it just about dollar bills? I honestly have never heard that I can recall the difference between level 1 and level 2. Maybe AzTex can free up some money in his will to help with our cause. If I recall, even President Weber was looking into SDSU becoming a Charter School which would have allowed us to be a Research 1 (tier 1) school. For example, creating a Law School. Whichever system(CSU or UC) nixed it, it was probably due to preserving their own agenda. Of those 10 schools considered as expansion candidates, our US News & World Report University Ranking is 3rd. Only Kansas, Oklahoma and BYU have a higher ranking. I think that speaks well for us, considering how the UC system has always limited us. The CSU charter precludes us from having a professional school. Were that to change, a law school makes the most sense given our highly rated business school and the dearth of non profit law schools in San Diego.
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Post by hoobs on May 17, 2021 16:53:24 GMT -8
I think purchasing one of the existing law schools in San Diego, or some type of joint venture with an existing school, would be the only way to avoid over-saturating the market (both for recruiting students to attend, and also job opportunities for graduates). Thomas Jefferson School of Law is an obvious choice... having lost their ABA accreditation in 2019, the "price" would seem to have dropped to take it over... and with a fresh academic affiliation, it might be easy-ish for the school to then get its accreditation back.
(Edit: but also, this of course would probably take some type of exception to the CSU charter to allow SDSU to do this)
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Post by Den60 on May 17, 2021 19:18:42 GMT -8
At the risk of throwing cold water onto this, I'd like to refer back to Zeigler's recent article on the pending chasm between the "haves" and the "have not" football schools. I can't find the article but I remember him saying that there would be a contraction of P5 schools as the big named schools look to break away from the NCAA. I thought I remember him specifically singling out schools like Oregon St and Washington St as examples of schools in a P5 conference that probably wouldn't be a part of the new structure. I'm not holding my breath for a Pac-12 invite, that's for sure. With that said, it's always nice to dream! I have to admit, while I don't like it, I think the new landscape in a few years will favor contraction rather than expansion. The bigger boys will want to keep the lion's share of the $$$ for themselves. We could find ourselves in a league with the likes of Oregon State, Washington State, Kansas State and Iowa State. At some point, the money schools in the NCAA will break off and form their own league. I see that as being somewhere between 32 and 40 schools. They will pay their players and be able to raid the rosters of the "lesser" schools. The schools you mention will be "dumped" back to us. The second division will be their "minor leagues." We get lucky to find another Marshal Faulk and he will get a contract offer from Alabama, Ohio State or some other top end school as soon as he shows promise.
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Post by Den60 on May 17, 2021 19:26:18 GMT -8
Maybe, but doubtful. I had a friend on their last expansion committee who told me about the conversations involved and research grants and partnerships and shared resources that come with it played a key role. And don't undervalue the financial impact of those partnerships. Times change, but as long as the President's dictate membership it's my guess that'll remain an important factor. The question I have is, what would happen if SDSU was accepted into the Pac with the increased funding, visibility, notoriety, alumni involvement and everything that comes with inclusion? I think SDSU would easily fits in with the the bulk of the Pac school within 2-3 years. The new Stadium, campus expansion, New funding from the Stadium and increase enrollment dollars, I can almost guarantee you that Alumni involvement is going to take off. If you add in a Pac invite there is now a new solid player in the division and they are afraid of that happening. The PAC-12 will never allow us in. The Cal schools would block it. The only way we make it in is with a complete restructuring where the big football money making programs leave. When restructuring happens we can only hope to be an also ran in a degraded conference.
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Post by sdsustoner on May 17, 2021 19:35:57 GMT -8
The only way contraction won't result in a fan backlash is if it's at 40 teams or so...and actually create interest beyond member schools is relegation. I get not all current FBS will be a part of this, but this could help retain most current members
Like the worst 2 Pac-? teams over a course of 2 seasons get dropped to the MWC and vice versa.
At this point it's minor league with university affiliations anyways...so why not?
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Post by sdcoug on May 19, 2021 11:07:57 GMT -8
Just a few notes Re: SDSU & the P12:
1. Being a Tier 1 RU isn't in the bi-laws, but both Colorado & Utah's presidents said it was the 1st criteria they had to meet to be considered.
2. USC & UCLA cannot block our admission by themselves. Never have been able to do so. It requires a 3/4 approval vote, so we could have 3 against & still gain admission. Cal & Stanford have no reason to vote us down other than looking down on us academically
3. If they were to expand, the P12 will target B12 schools first, before reaching out more locally. They did so the last time & Okie & UT are really the only schools they know will move the dial considerably.
4. UNLV is a legit player if they were to expand regionally: Tier 1 RU; growing/emerging market; most likely future home of the P12 Headquarters; great facilities. Whether their overall academic profile meets with the P12 is still TBD. They would make a terrific "travel partner" for SDSU.
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Post by Den60 on May 20, 2021 9:34:24 GMT -8
Interesting list the author has there. Seems he did a pretty good job listing pros/cons/likelihood of each school. One thing he didn't bring up though re SDSU, is the obvious plus - the new stadium and expanded campus/research facility. The stadium will definitely be a candidate for the Holiday Bowl or equivalent level bowl game (or two?). I'd think having a brand new hotel right there on site will be a big plus for visiting teams as well. San Diego and, if invited, UNLV would automatically become two of the most popular destination cities for opposing fans to travel to. Both would be popular to travel to for basketball fans as well. As others have said: it's a no brainer, so it definitely won't happen. At 35K capacity our bowl level will drop as we averaged over 50K fans for the event.
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Post by Den60 on May 20, 2021 9:37:49 GMT -8
We would already be R1 status if we could issue PHDs independently but CSU rules currently don’t allow that. I have heard the wheels are in motion for this to be changed within the next few years so R1 is attainable soon. We would need a professional school as well. There is only one not-for-profit law school in San Diego and such a school would pair well with our business school which is well regarded.
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Post by Den60 on May 20, 2021 9:39:07 GMT -8
I have to admit, while I don't like it, I think the new landscape in a few years will favor contraction rather than expansion. The bigger boys will want to keep the lion's share of the $$$ for themselves. We could find ourselves in a league with the likes of Oregon State, Washington State, Kansas State and Iowa State. Yep. I have thought this for a number of years now. The Power 5 will become a Power 4, with 4, 16-team conferences. I don't see more than 40 schools myself.
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Post by missiontrails on May 20, 2021 10:52:36 GMT -8
Interesting list the author has there. Seems he did a pretty good job listing pros/cons/likelihood of each school. One thing he didn't bring up though re SDSU, is the obvious plus - the new stadium and expanded campus/research facility. The stadium will definitely be a candidate for the Holiday Bowl or equivalent level bowl game (or two?). I'd think having a brand new hotel right there on site will be a big plus for visiting teams as well. San Diego and, if invited, UNLV would automatically become two of the most popular destination cities for opposing fans to travel to. Both would be popular to travel to for basketball fans as well. As others have said: it's a no brainer, so it definitely won't happen. At 35K capacity our bowl level will drop as we averaged over 50K fans for the event. Yeah, I know. That crossed my mind. That's why I was hoping we'd do at least 40k seating. I think that would be enough to keep the Holiday Bowl there, given the much upgraded facilities and of course suites. Still, at 35k, plus standing room and/or temp seating, it may still be enough to keep us at Holiday Bowl level, considering they'll be able to charge more per seat. Should be good enough for P12 #3 vs B1G #4, or whatever it is these days.
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Post by Cwag on May 20, 2021 10:58:53 GMT -8
At 35K capacity our bowl level will drop as we averaged over 50K fans for the event. Yeah, I know. That crossed my mind. That's why I was hoping we'd do at least 40k seating. I think that would be enough to keep the Holiday Bowl there, given the much upgraded facilities and of course suites. Still, at 35k, plus standing room and/or temp seating, it may still be enough to keep us at Holiday Bowl level, considering they'll be able to charge more per seat. Should be good enough for P12 #3 vs B1G #4, or whatever it is these days. It can be expanded to 40,000 seats with temporary seating.
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Post by Den60 on May 20, 2021 11:41:36 GMT -8
Yeah, I know. That crossed my mind. That's why I was hoping we'd do at least 40k seating. I think that would be enough to keep the Holiday Bowl there, given the much upgraded facilities and of course suites. Still, at 35k, plus standing room and/or temp seating, it may still be enough to keep us at Holiday Bowl level, considering they'll be able to charge more per seat. Should be good enough for P12 #3 vs B1G #4, or whatever it is these days. It can be expanded to 40,000 seats with temporary seating. But, it is still below what the game has drawn. Add to this new competition in LA (SoFi) and Las Vegas (Allegiant) and I just don't think we will be that big of an attraction. We are still more attractive than places like Boise, Albuquerque, Frisco TX etc. and I see a future bowl game here as better than what we saw with the Poinsettia Bowl but not on the same level as the Holiday Bowl.
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Post by panammaniac on May 20, 2021 12:44:26 GMT -8
It can be expanded to 40,000 seats with temporary seating. But, it is still below what the game has drawn. Add to this new competition in LA (SoFi) and Las Vegas (Allegiant) and I just don't think we will be that big of an attraction. We are still more attractive than places like Boise, Albuquerque, Frisco TX etc. and I see a future bowl game here as better than what we saw with the Poinsettia Bowl but not on the same level as the Holiday Bowl. The Holiday Bowl folks are hellbent on having the game at Petco Park going forward, including having the game this year. I don't have any insight into how exactly they plan on doing that since it's pretty well established that you can't fit a gridiron in there without modifications, but the latest info from Neville is that "we've been talking with the Padres and they've been great so far." Whatever discussions have been going on have been kept pretty secretive. Bottom line for 2021 if they're going to play the game it's Petco or nothing, and they are absolutely insistent so far that they're going to play the game. Somebody somewhere must have a plan. I don't see it happening without pulling out the jackhammers but I've been wrong once or twice before.
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Post by sdcoug on May 20, 2021 12:45:29 GMT -8
It can be expanded to 40,000 seats with temporary seating. But, it is still below what the game has drawn. Add to this new competition in LA (SoFi) and Las Vegas (Allegiant) and I just don't think we will be that big of an attraction. We are still more attractive than places like Boise, Albuquerque, Frisco TX etc. and I see a future bowl game here as better than what we saw with the Poinsettia Bowl but not on the same level as the Holiday Bowl. SoFi (MWC champ vs. P12; lowest priority bowl) & Las Vegas (P12 vs. SEC) already have their bowls, and the Holiday bowl is currently slotted above both. The Las Vegas bowl could jump the Holiday Bowl, but I doubt any of the others - Red Box, Sun, Independence, LA - come close to doing so. It'll still be a top 4 bowl for the P12 with its ACC matchup. It'll probably generate as much revenue at 40k in the new stadium as it would at 46-50k in SDCCU, possibly more given the increase in premium seating.
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Post by sdcoug on May 20, 2021 12:47:11 GMT -8
But, it is still below what the game has drawn. Add to this new competition in LA (SoFi) and Las Vegas (Allegiant) and I just don't think we will be that big of an attraction. We are still more attractive than places like Boise, Albuquerque, Frisco TX etc. and I see a future bowl game here as better than what we saw with the Poinsettia Bowl but not on the same level as the Holiday Bowl. The Holiday Bowl folks are hellbent on having the game at Petco Park going forward, including having the game this year. I don't have any insight into how exactly they plan on doing that since it's pretty well established that you can't fit a gridiron in there without modifications, but the latest info from Neville is that "we've been talking with the Padres and they've been great so far." Whatever discussions have been going on have been kept pretty secretive. Bottom line for 2021 if they're going to play the game it's Petco or nothing, and they are absolutely insistent so far that they're going to play the game. Somebody somewhere must have a plan. I don't see it happening without pulling out the jackhammers but I've been wrong once or twice before. My understanding is they're looking at Petco for 2021 but moving to the new Aztec stadium moving forward. I was surprised to hear that, given they'd have to spend on modifications to make it work for 1 year so why spend for 1 vs. 2-3 or more?
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Post by panammaniac on May 20, 2021 13:08:14 GMT -8
The Holiday Bowl folks are hellbent on having the game at Petco Park going forward, including having the game this year. I don't have any insight into how exactly they plan on doing that since it's pretty well established that you can't fit a gridiron in there without modifications, but the latest info from Neville is that "we've been talking with the Padres and they've been great so far." Whatever discussions have been going on have been kept pretty secretive. Bottom line for 2021 if they're going to play the game it's Petco or nothing, and they are absolutely insistent so far that they're going to play the game. Somebody somewhere must have a plan. I don't see it happening without pulling out the jackhammers but I've been wrong once or twice before. My understanding is they're looking at Petco for 2021 but moving to the new Aztec stadium moving forward. I was surprised to hear that, given they'd have to spend on modifications to make it work for 1 year so why spend for 1 vs. 2-3 or more? All I've heard is that the HB committee talking about how Petco would be such a great venue because it's downtown. You can play the game downtown, have the parade downtown, everyone stays in downtown hotels, etc. I've also heard mentions from the committee about how Aztec Stadium is too small. More than likely if they figure out a way to play it in Petco it is there for good. Who really knows though - I wouldn't be surprised by anything these days. The only things I've heard have been small quotes in various articles trying to speculate on what's going to happen, so it's difficult to determine exactly where things are headed. I certainly wouldn't count on it being held at Aztec Stadium though. A more likely scenario would be the Poinsettia Bowl coming back and being played there with the Holiday at Petco.
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Post by sdcoug on May 20, 2021 13:14:39 GMT -8
My understanding is they're looking at Petco for 2021 but moving to the new Aztec stadium moving forward. I was surprised to hear that, given they'd have to spend on modifications to make it work for 1 year so why spend for 1 vs. 2-3 or more? All I've heard is that the HB committee talking about how Petco would be such a great venue because it's downtown. You can play the game downtown, have the parade downtown, everyone stays in downtown hotels, etc. I've also heard mentions from the committee about how Aztec Stadium is too small. More than likely if they figure out a way to play it in Petco it is there for good. Who really knows though - I wouldn't be surprised by anything these days. The only things I've heard have been small quotes in various articles trying to speculate on what's going to happen, so it's difficult to determine exactly where things are headed. I certainly wouldn't count on it being held at Aztec Stadium though. A more likely scenario would be the Poinsettia Bowl coming back and being played there with the Holiday at Petco.
I guarantee you that is NOT HAPPENING. They didn't drop the Poinsettia due to venue issues. And again, its my understanding they've been talking to SDSU with the goal of playing there when ready. You never know until all the t's have been crossed as negotiations can be tricky.
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Post by aardvark on May 20, 2021 13:28:25 GMT -8
Personally, I think there is a better chance of SDSU playing basketball in Petco Park again before the Holiday Bowl is played at Petco Park.
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Post by panammaniac on May 20, 2021 13:50:57 GMT -8
Personally, I think there is a better chance of SDSU playing basketball in Petco Park again before the Holiday Bowl is played at Petco Park. I guess we will find out soon enough. I usually get my Holiday Bowl ticket renewal notice around mid-June with the bill due by the end of July (I've attended every single Holiday Bowl since it first came into existence). My gut says if they have it in Petco then it is there for good. They'll have to do some mods, and with as much concrete is in that place no mod is going to be quick and easy. Anything they do will require a substantial amount of money and they're certainly not going to do that for one game. They are saying that absolutely the game is going to be played this year. It could just be Neville talking a good game. There has been close to zero public information put out there so who knows?
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Post by aardvark on May 20, 2021 16:05:26 GMT -8
Personally, I think there is a better chance of SDSU playing basketball in Petco Park again before the Holiday Bowl is played at Petco Park. I guess we will find out soon enough. I usually get my Holiday Bowl ticket renewal notice around mid-June with the bill due by the end of July (I've attended every single Holiday Bowl since it first came into existence). My gut says if they have it in Petco then it is there for good. They'll have to do some mods, and with as much concrete is in that place no mod is going to be quick and easy. Anything they do will require a substantial amount of money and they're certainly not going to do that for one game. They are saying that absolutely the game is going to be played this year. It could just be Neville talking a good game. There has been close to zero public information put out there so who knows? People complained about not being able to see over the players while watching football in The Murph from the field level, and you will have the same problem if football is ever played in Petco Park. They will probably be able to hold more people who can actually see the game in the new Aztec Stadium, and they will be closer to the field. Of course (assuming a football field even fits in Petco Park, and the MOU between the city and Padres is changed to allow football in the ballpark), people might really enjoy sitting in those lower level seats in Petco, while watching the game on the big video board. Also--I think Fowler was more on board with making Petco Park available to the Holiday Bowl, and he is no longer with the club. I don't know how thrilled Peter Seidler is regarding that.
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