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Post by sdsustoner on May 15, 2021 7:32:51 GMT -8
The Pac-12 is awakening to the fact the new business model doesn't care about conference academic requirements or other goofy, elitist garbage used in the past. It's all about $$$$$.
The way conferences will be moving, 16 might be bare minimum to 'keep up with the Joneses.'
Will the Big 12 schools take a paycut or will they get some BSU/MWC deal? Geographically it's stupid too.
UNLV & SDSU as stated above but also CSU and yes, the Zoobs. I hate them but a westerm super conf without them makes no sense. Utah then has its hated rival as well as CU.
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Post by RiffelBooks on May 15, 2021 8:05:12 GMT -8
At the risk of throwing cold water onto this, I'd like to refer back to Zeigler's recent article on the pending chasm between the "haves" and the "have not" football schools. I can't find the article but I remember him saying that there would be a contraction of P5 schools as the big named schools look to break away from the NCAA. I thought I remember him specifically singling out schools like Oregon St and Washington St as examples of schools in a P5 conference that probably wouldn't be a part of the new structure. I'm not holding my breath for a Pac-12 invite, that's for sure. With that said, it's always nice to dream! I have to admit, while I don't like it, I think the new landscape in a few years will favor contraction rather than expansion. The bigger boys will want to keep the lion's share of the $$$ for themselves. We could find ourselves in a league with the likes of Oregon State, Washington State, Kansas State and Iowa State.
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Post by aztecfred on May 15, 2021 8:09:53 GMT -8
At the risk of throwing cold water onto this, I'd like to refer back to Zeigler's recent article on the pending chasm between the "haves" and the "have not" football schools. I can't find the article but I remember him saying that there would be a contraction of P5 schools as the big named schools look to break away from the NCAA. I thought I remember him specifically singling out schools like Oregon St and Washington St as examples of schools in a P5 conference that probably wouldn't be a part of the new structure. I'm not holding my breath for a Pac-12 invite, that's for sure. With that said, it's always nice to dream! I have to admit, while I don't like it, I think the new landscape in a few years will favor contraction rather than expansion. The bigger boys will want to keep the lion's share of the $$$ for themselves. We could find ourselves in a league with the likes of Oregon State, Washington State, Kansas State and Iowa State. Sad part is, that would still be better than the MWC?
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Post by SD Johnny on May 15, 2021 8:15:32 GMT -8
We would already be R1 status if we could issue PHDs independently but CSU rules currently don’t allow that. I have heard the wheels are in motion for this to be changed within the next few years so R1 is attainable soon.
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Post by aardvark on May 15, 2021 8:49:59 GMT -8
At the risk of throwing cold water onto this, I'd like to refer back to Zeigler's recent article on the pending chasm between the "haves" and the "have not" football schools. I can't find the article but I remember him saying that there would be a contraction of P5 schools as the big named schools look to break away from the NCAA. I thought I remember him specifically singling out schools like Oregon St and Washington St as examples of schools in a P5 conference that probably wouldn't be a part of the new structure. I'm not holding my breath for a Pac-12 invite, that's for sure. With that said, it's always nice to dream! I have to admit, while I don't like it, I think the new landscape in a few years will favor contraction rather than expansion. The bigger boys will want to keep the lion's share of the $$$ for themselves. We could find ourselves in a league with the likes of Oregon State, Washington State, Kansas State and Iowa State. Yep. I have thought this for a number of years now. The Power 5 will become a Power 4, with 4, 16-team conferences.
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Post by sdsustoner on May 15, 2021 9:07:31 GMT -8
I have to admit, while I don't like it, I think the new landscape in a few years will favor contraction rather than expansion. The bigger boys will want to keep the lion's share of the $$$ for themselves. We could find ourselves in a league with the likes of Oregon State, Washington State, Kansas State and Iowa State. Yep. I have thought this for a number of years now. The Power 5 will become a Power 4, with 4, 16-team conferences. Didn't this type of plan fail for soccer in England with some Super League? Contraction loses fans from those schools in whatever new product they decide on. That was the unexpected fallout across the pond.
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Post by aardvark on May 15, 2021 9:14:47 GMT -8
Yep. I have thought this for a number of years now. The Power 5 will become a Power 4, with 4, 16-team conferences. Didn't this type of plan fail for soccer in England with some Super League? Contraction loses fans from those schools in whatever new product they decide on. That was the unexpected fallout across the pond. 4, 16-team conferences, eliminating 6 of the current P5 members, isn't remotely close to what was being proposed for soccer in Europe.
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Post by standiego on May 15, 2021 9:21:50 GMT -8
Any thoughts that it is TV money that makes it for most of the P6 schools ( P5 for football) and they could dramatically affect the way expansion goes .
Thought there were some comments from TV Networks that adding more games especially the lower level teams does Not help the TV Networks so will be very interesting to hear their opinions on expansion
Money drives things
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Post by hoobs on May 15, 2021 9:47:33 GMT -8
100% LTB, and I've enjoyed and appreciated your posts on this subject every single time (well, at least since I joined iterations of these boards since the mid-2000s -- I think).
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Post by aztech on May 15, 2021 11:14:10 GMT -8
I have to admit, while I don't like it, I think the new landscape in a few years will favor contraction rather than expansion. The bigger boys will want to keep the lion's share of the $$$ for themselves. We could find ourselves in a league with the likes of Oregon State, Washington State, Kansas State and Iowa State. Yep. I have thought this for a number of years now. The Power 5 will become a Power 4, with 4, 16-team conferences. Those current P5 schools that will be "downgraded" will probably lose a lot of pissed off supporters. What's funny is they'll get to feel how we G5 have felt all along.
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Post by laaztec on May 15, 2021 12:56:12 GMT -8
At the risk of throwing cold water onto this, I'd like to refer back to Zeigler's recent article on the pending chasm between the "haves" and the "have not" football schools. I can't find the article but I remember him saying that there would be a contraction of P5 schools as the big named schools look to break away from the NCAA. I thought I remember him specifically singling out schools like Oregon St and Washington St as examples of schools in a P5 conference that probably wouldn't be a part of the new structure. I'm not holding my breath for a Pac-12 invite, that's for sure. With that said, it's always nice to dream! I have to admit, while I don't like it, I think the new landscape in a few years will favor contraction rather than expansion. The bigger boys will want to keep the lion's share of the $$$ for themselves. We could find ourselves in a league with the likes of Oregon State, Washington State, Kansas State and Iowa State. Except Oregon is tied to Oregon State and Washington State is tied to Washington and Kansas State is tied to Kansas. Everyone thinks that the so called "Top tier" of the P5 are going to break away but it's way more complicated than just separating. You have hundreds of years of relationships with sister schools in the same states. You think legislators in Kansas, Oregon and Washington are just going to let schools leave their fellow State schools behind? No way. There are a ton of politics involved here. Also there would be an avalanche of lawsuits. It's not going to be easy for schools to separate. That's why I don't think it's going to happen.
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Post by RiffelBooks on May 15, 2021 13:02:06 GMT -8
I have to admit, while I don't like it, I think the new landscape in a few years will favor contraction rather than expansion. The bigger boys will want to keep the lion's share of the $$$ for themselves. We could find ourselves in a league with the likes of Oregon State, Washington State, Kansas State and Iowa State. Except Oregon is tied to Oregon State and Washington State is tied to Washington and Kansas State is tied to Kansas. Everyone thinks that the so called "Top tier" of the P5 are going to break away but it's way more complicated than just separating. You have hundreds of years of relationships with sister schools in the same states. You think legislators in Kansas, Oregon and Washington are just going to let schools leave their fellow State schools behind? No way. There are a ton of politics involved here. Also there would be an avalanche of lawsuits. It's not going to be easy for schools to separate. That's why I don't think it's going to happen. OTOH, both Texas A&M and Arkansas were tied to Texas, Nebraska to Oklahoma, West Virginia to Pittsburgh, etc. I hope you're right. I like your version better than mine, but money talks.
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Post by RiffelBooks on May 15, 2021 13:04:57 GMT -8
Any thoughts that it is TV money that makes it for most of the P6 schools ( P5 for football) and they could dramatically affect the way expansion goes . Thought there were some comments from TV Networks that adding more games especially the lower level teams does Not help the TV Networks so will be very interesting to hear their opinions on expansion Money drives things What drove the networks to air so many games was that they were relatively inexpensive to produce compared to other forms of programming. As the sports world becomes more and more top-heavy, maybe that equation no longer comes out the same way.
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Post by sdsustoner on May 15, 2021 13:34:12 GMT -8
Didn't this type of plan fail for soccer in England with some Super League? Contraction loses fans from those schools in whatever new product they decide on. That was the unexpected fallout across the pond. 4, 16-team conferences, eliminating 6 of the current P5 members, isn't remotely close to what was being proposed for soccer in Europe. It's roughly half of the curremt FBS
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Post by aardvark on May 15, 2021 14:17:59 GMT -8
4, 16-team conferences, eliminating 6 of the current P5 members, isn't remotely close to what was being proposed for soccer in Europe. It's roughly half of the curremt FBS There are 70 schools in the Power 5 conferences. The rest of the FBS will probably just stay as they are (poor), as there is already a pretty large monetary division between the Power 5 and remaining schools. If the 4, 16-team Power 4 conference scenario comes to pass, 6 more schools will be kicked to the curb, er, pushed into the Group of 5, or whatever it's called this week. It is still nowhere near what was attempted by the proposed European Super League.
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Post by laaztec on May 15, 2021 15:37:41 GMT -8
Except Oregon is tied to Oregon State and Washington State is tied to Washington and Kansas State is tied to Kansas. Everyone thinks that the so called "Top tier" of the P5 are going to break away but it's way more complicated than just separating. You have hundreds of years of relationships with sister schools in the same states. You think legislators in Kansas, Oregon and Washington are just going to let schools leave their fellow State schools behind? No way. There are a ton of politics involved here. Also there would be an avalanche of lawsuits. It's not going to be easy for schools to separate. That's why I don't think it's going to happen. OTOH, both Texas A&M and Arkansas were tied to Texas, Nebraska to Oklahoma, West Virginia to Pittsburgh, etc. I hope you're right. I like your version better than mine, but money talks. Only one of your examples are located in the same state. Both Texas and Texas A&M are power house universities. Oregon and Oregon State aren’t on the same level.
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Post by sdsustoner on May 15, 2021 15:53:55 GMT -8
It's roughly half of the curremt FBS There are 70 schools in the Power 5 conferences. The rest of the FBS will probably just stay as they are (poor), as there is already a pretty large monetary division between the Power 5 and remaining schools. If the 4, 16-team Power 4 conference scenario comes to pass, 6 more schools will be kicked to the curb, er, pushed into the Group of 5, or whatever it's called this week. It is still nowhere near what was attempted by the proposed European Super League. I get that. However, the fan backlash might lead to lower-than-expected success. Fans will follow whatever thing their team plays in. Especially out west where the imagined Western Super Conference turns into maybe 10 current Pac 12 schools & 6 other geographical outliers.
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Post by aardvark on May 15, 2021 16:42:26 GMT -8
There are 70 schools in the Power 5 conferences. The rest of the FBS will probably just stay as they are (poor), as there is already a pretty large monetary division between the Power 5 and remaining schools. If the 4, 16-team Power 4 conference scenario comes to pass, 6 more schools will be kicked to the curb, er, pushed into the Group of 5, or whatever it's called this week. It is still nowhere near what was attempted by the proposed European Super League. I get that. However, the fan backlash might lead to lower-than-expected success. Fans will follow whatever thing their team plays in. Especially out west where the imagined Western Super Conference turns into maybe 10 current Pac 12 schools & 6 other geographical outliers. I would think any contraction in the Power conferences will be done to minimize the fallout. Besides--this is just an opinion of mine. I don't think anything happens for at least a few years, based on the current broadcast contracts the P5 conferences have with major networks.
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Post by myownwords on May 15, 2021 18:02:39 GMT -8
The Pac-12 is awakening to the fact the new business model doesn't care about conference academic requirements or other goofy, elitist garbage used in the past. It's all about $$$$$. The way conferences will be moving, 16 might be bare minimum to 'keep up with the Joneses.' Will the Big 12 schools take a paycut or will they get some BSU/MWC deal? Geographically it's stupid too. UNLV & SDSU as stated above but also CSU and yes, the Zoobs. I hate them but a westerm super conf without them makes no sense. Utah then has its hated rival as well as CU. I'm inclined to agree with you, but I do think someone will have to push hard to get USC and UCLA on board--since they view us as inconsequential poachers. I don't know the policy that guides adding schools. Is unanimity required? If so, either school could/would block us---in my opinion.
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Post by aztecking on May 15, 2021 18:11:16 GMT -8
The University presidents are the ones who dictate expansion, and their mandate has always been requiring they be a Research 1 (tier 1) University. SDSU is a Research 2 University. Unless that changes, SDSU most likely is out of the consideration set. The only thing I could see changing that would be the school having a significant impact on media revenues, which the P12 doesn't see in SDSU right now. We've typically won the ratings war in SD, but USC, UCLA, etc. get pretty good ratings locally as well. UNLV, UNR, UNM & CSU are all Research 1 Universities, but not sure if any have the pull or allure to entice the P12 to act, especially since CU has the Denver market. Maybe UNLV. BSU will never be in their consideration set. Ever. The Big 12 is our best option, especially if 1 or 2 of their universities jump ship AND if the B12 adds a western division (4+ schools) to make it more viable for travel considerations. Maybe they will be flexible on the research part. Academically, SDSU would fit in with the conference. It’s a better school than Arizona State or Washington State.
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