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Post by aztecryan on Aug 20, 2019 13:43:35 GMT -8
That remains to be seen with regards to the Padres. If Trammell washes out, it was a big waste. Not from a trade standpoint. Winning organizations don't employ 0.1 WAR players. It was the right move for the right reasons, but it's up to the Padres to unlock Trammell's talent, which dwarfs that of Franmil's from an all around standpoint. I know Franmil is 24, but when your one carrying tool is not hard to find, you're easily replaced. I can count on one hand (and one finger) the amount of players that are Franmil's body type that actually produced a good MLB career : Dunn, Adam. End of list.
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Post by azteca on Aug 20, 2019 14:53:55 GMT -8
That remains to be seen with regards to the Padres. If Trammell washes out, it was a big waste. Not from a trade standpoint. Winning organizations don't employ 0.1 WAR players. It was the right move for the right reasons, but it's up to the Padres to unlock Trammell's talent, which dwarfs that of Franmil's from an all around standpoint. I know Franmil is 24, but when your one carrying tool is not hard to find, you're easily replaced. I can count on one hand (and one finger) the amount of players that are Franmil's body type that actually produced a good MLB career : Dunn, Adam. End of list. How many decades has the game of baseball gone without using the WAR? It has survived fine without it for goodness sakes! I’m done discussing this because you have a closed mind on the subject.
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Post by aztecryan on Aug 20, 2019 20:03:07 GMT -8
Not from a trade standpoint. Winning organizations don't employ 0.1 WAR players. It was the right move for the right reasons, but it's up to the Padres to unlock Trammell's talent, which dwarfs that of Franmil's from an all around standpoint. I know Franmil is 24, but when your one carrying tool is not hard to find, you're easily replaced. I can count on one hand (and one finger) the amount of players that are Franmil's body type that actually produced a good MLB career : Dunn, Adam. End of list. How many decades has the game of baseball gone without using the WAR? It has survived fine without it for goodness sakes! I’m done discussing this because you have a closed mind on the subject. I do not, but you have to come up with something to accurately calculate player values. "Because he hits home runs" isn't enough, unfortunately. Renfroe would have been traded if he weren't excelling on defense at the time.
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Post by survalli on Aug 20, 2019 23:48:58 GMT -8
How many decades has the game of baseball gone without using the WAR? It has survived fine without it for goodness sakes! I’m done discussing this because you have a closed mind on the subject. I do not, but you have to come up with something to accurately calculate player values. "Because he hits home runs" isn't enough, unfortunately. Renfroe would have been traded if he weren't excelling on defense at the time. If the Padres want to be one of those teams, their number crunching skils need to improve. They may understand the fundamentals of what they want to do, but all i see is Texas Rangers west. They are one step behind with their analytics. time and time again its as if they are "outsmarting" themselves to losses. case in point tonight. They let Quantril pitch the 6th when he should have been pulled. They let him throw 108 pitches. why? because Strahm is pitching tomorrow and he is probably only going to get 2 innings so they will be using the bullpen heavily. And why not, our braintrust saw that the team had Thursday off and had planned this "Spring Training" rotation as a way to "save our young arms." For all of their foresight may have very well cost them the game.. not that it matters, as the team threw in the towel 2 weeks before the All Star break. Now the MLB wants to why www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/columnist/bob-nightengale/2019/08/19/mlb-baseballs-old-timers-decry-state-modern-game/2047025001/ There is just no good reason for a fan to watch a Science Experiment where the outcome has ceased to become as important as the Scientific Process.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2019 7:52:53 GMT -8
Not from a trade standpoint. Winning organizations don't employ 0.1 WAR players. It was the right move for the right reasons, but it's up to the Padres to unlock Trammell's talent, which dwarfs that of Franmil's from an all around standpoint. I know Franmil is 24, but when your one carrying tool is not hard to find, you're easily replaced. I can count on one hand (and one finger) the amount of players that are Franmil's body type that actually produced a good MLB career : Dunn, Adam. End of list. How many decades has the game of baseball gone without using the WAR? It has survived fine without it for goodness sakes! I’m done discussing this because you have a closed mind on the subject. Advanced analytics and having improved metrics to evaluate players should be embraced. If you get into it, it can be fascinating. For example, it allows you to look back and see that a player like Derek Jeter was really, just an average SS DEFENSIVELY based on zone ratings and other fielding metrics, but his popularity and five web gems or stand leaps a year made him look to be an elite SS in the eyes of baseball writers.
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Post by aztecryan on Aug 21, 2019 8:15:51 GMT -8
How many decades has the game of baseball gone without using the WAR? It has survived fine without it for goodness sakes! I’m done discussing this because you have a closed mind on the subject. Advanced analytics and having improved metrics to evaluate players should be embraced. If you get into it, it can be fascinating. For example, it allows you to look back and see that a player like Derek Jeter was really, just an average defensive shortstop based on zone ratings and other fielding metrics, but his popularity and five web gems or stand leaps a year made him look to be an elite SS in the eyes of baseball writers. Mike Trout just passed Jeter on the all time list two days ago. Amazing.
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Post by aztecryan on Aug 21, 2019 8:20:30 GMT -8
I do not, but you have to come up with something to accurately calculate player values. "Because he hits home runs" isn't enough, unfortunately. Renfroe would have been traded if he weren't excelling on defense at the time. If the Padres want to be one of those teams, their number crunching skils need to improve. They may understand the fundamentals of what they want to do, but all i see is Texas Rangers west. They are one step behind with their analytics. time and time again its as if they are "outsmarting" themselves to losses. case in point tonight. They let Quantril pitch the 6th when he should have been pulled. They let him throw 108 pitches. why? because Strahm is pitching tomorrow and he is probably only going to get 2 innings so they will be using the bullpen heavily. And why not, our braintrust saw that the team had Thursday off and had planned this "Spring Training" rotation as a way to "save our young arms." For all of their foresight may have very well cost them the game.. not that it matters, as the team threw in the towel 2 weeks before the All Star break. Now the MLB wants to why www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/columnist/bob-nightengale/2019/08/19/mlb-baseballs-old-timers-decry-state-modern-game/2047025001/ There is just no good reason for a fan to watch a Science Experiment where the outcome has ceased to become as important as the Scientific Process. Why? It's development. They said last week that Cal is going to throw the rest of the year restrictions free, to see what he can do. He's been a top 10 ERA pitcher in the 2nd half of the season. He didn't lose the game yesterday, the ballpark screwed him. The expected batting average on the home run by Galvis was .210. It was a total fluke. There are basically three good organizations that are fully analytics-driven : Tampa, Houston, LA. The Padres are getting there, but you have to have the right PD to go along with it.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2019 8:38:08 GMT -8
How many decades has the game of baseball gone without using the WAR? It has survived fine without it for goodness sakes! I’m done discussing this because you have a closed mind on the subject. Advanced analytics and having improved metrics to evaluate players should be embraced. If you get into it, it can be fascinating. For example, it allows you to look back and see that a player like Derek Jeter was really, just an average defensive shortstop based on zone ratings and other fielding metrics, but his popularity and five web gems or stand leaps a year made him look to be an elite SS in the eyes of baseball writers. LMFAO!! Sorry bro, but here are some things to analyze that any MLB team would want from a SS with so called average defense. Derek Jeter's Career Stats WAR 72.4 AB 11195 H 3465 HR 260 BA .310 5 Gold Gloves 14 Time All Star youtu.be/-ZpZuMciNjIAll Day Long!!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2019 8:51:25 GMT -8
I don't get your point. Jeter was an amazing ballplayer.
Why are you sending me his offensive stats when we were talking about his defense? I think my post was WAY over your head.
He didnt deserve to win those gold gloves, objectively looking at it.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2019 8:54:31 GMT -8
Again, only talking DEFENSIVE. DJ was a very good offensive SS and one of the most clutch postseason performers of his time. Of all time. grantland.com/features/the-tragedy-derek-jeter-defense/www.espn.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/44294/a-few-notes-on-derek-jeters-defense"On the other side are the advanced statistics, which disregard Gold Gloves and treat a flashy-looking jump-throw just like any other assist. According to two historical play-by-play-based systems, Baseball Prospectus’s Fielding Runs Above Average and Baseball-Reference’s Total Zone, Jeter has cost his team more in the field than any other player in history, with both methods assessing the damage at 230 to 260 runs.1 Granted, that deficit has something to do with Jeter’s age, longevity, and durability. Fielding performance peaks early for shortstops, which means that Jeter has spent most of his lengthy career in defensive decline. He’s a few healthy weeks away from setting a record for defensive games at shortstop, so he’s had more opportunities for misplays (and missed plays) than almost anyone else. But even when looking at smaller slices of his career you can see the story of a flawed fielder unfold. Young Jeter or old Jeter, UZR or DRS, massive sample or small, the stats are unified in their disdain for Jeter’s defense."
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2019 9:15:50 GMT -8
I don't get your point. Jeter was an amazing ballplayer. Why are you sending me his offensive stats when we were talking about his defense? I think my post was WAY over your head. He didnt deserve to win those gold gloves, objectively looking at it. I guess you didn't see the average defense swipe or the 5 Gold Gloves part either. My point is, Derek Jeter's offense clearly made up for his tolerable defense. Sorry you didn't analize it correctly. 😉
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Post by aardvark on Aug 21, 2019 10:08:54 GMT -8
The trade of Reyes enabled the Padres to put guys like Josh Naylor in the outfield. There are times that Naylor makes Franmil Reyes look like a Gold Glove outfielder. The 3rd inning today is one of those times.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2019 10:13:40 GMT -8
I wasn't attempting to analyze that. Because my point was correlating analytics and advanced metrics to one specific area. Using DJ's defense as an example of what some fans and writers "thought" vs. what was reality and how advanced metrics have helped smart MLB teams who use it to their advantage. Front offices like Houstons, LAD's, etc.
I was not discrediting the player as a whole. Of course his offense made up for his average D, and of course he is a first ballot HOFer.
But yes, he was quite overrated as a DEF shortstop and probably should have moved to 3B or the outfield later in his career.
Just like on the flip side of the coin, you could say Ozzie Smith was a fabulous defensive SS, a great ballplayer as a whole, and a HOFer but someone who was pretty average to mediocre (sub .670 OPS) offensively for many seasons of his career.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2019 10:16:54 GMT -8
I don't get your point. Jeter was an amazing ballplayer. Why are you sending me his offensive stats when we were talking about his defense? I think my post was WAY over your head. He didnt deserve to win those gold gloves, objectively looking at it. I guess you didn't see the average defense swipe or the 5 Gold Gloves part either. My point is, Derek Jeter's offense clearly made up for his tolerable defense. Sorry you didn't analize it correctly. 😉 He wouldn't win those GGs today. Actually, the 5 GGs was one of my main points I was trying to make. What sportswriters were swayed by based on watching SportsCenter web gems and media hype turned out to be not factual at all. Jeter was always just an average defensive SS, his last 3 seasons he was quite poor. Thats what happens though, when you let sportswriters have the voting power. Did you know Rafael Palmeiro won the 1B gold glove in '99 despite starting 28 games at first base and 128 games at DH? LOL. Figure that one out. That was embarrassing as hell.
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Post by survalli on Aug 21, 2019 11:00:49 GMT -8
If the Padres want to be one of those teams, their number crunching skils need to improve. They may understand the fundamentals of what they want to do, but all i see is Texas Rangers west. They are one step behind with their analytics. time and time again its as if they are "outsmarting" themselves to losses. case in point tonight. They let Quantril pitch the 6th when he should have been pulled. They let him throw 108 pitches. why? because Strahm is pitching tomorrow and he is probably only going to get 2 innings so they will be using the bullpen heavily. And why not, our braintrust saw that the team had Thursday off and had planned this "Spring Training" rotation as a way to "save our young arms." For all of their foresight may have very well cost them the game.. not that it matters, as the team threw in the towel 2 weeks before the All Star break. Now the MLB wants to why www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/columnist/bob-nightengale/2019/08/19/mlb-baseballs-old-timers-decry-state-modern-game/2047025001/ There is just no good reason for a fan to watch a Science Experiment where the outcome has ceased to become as important as the Scientific Process. Why? It's development. They said last week that Cal is going to throw the rest of the year restrictions free, to see what he can do. He's been a top 10 ERA pitcher in the 2nd half of the season. He didn't lose the game yesterday, the ballpark screwed him. The expected batting average on the home run by Galvis was .210. It was a total fluke. There are basically three good organizations that are fully analytics-driven : Tampa, Houston, LA. The Padres are getting there, but you have to have the right PD to go along with it. 2 losses in the name of development. Got to love not resigning Galvis. I wonder how his WAR compares to Kinsler/Urias at 2nd base
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Post by aztecryan on Aug 21, 2019 11:20:33 GMT -8
I don't get your point. Jeter was an amazing ballplayer. Why are you sending me his offensive stats when we were talking about his defense? I think my post was WAY over your head. He didnt deserve to win those gold gloves, objectively looking at it. I guess you didn't see the average defense swipe or the 5 Gold Gloves part either. My point is, Derek Jeter's offense clearly made up for his tolerable defense. Sorry you didn't analize it correctly. 😉 And still one of the most overrated players ever.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2019 12:38:44 GMT -8
I guess you didn't see the average defense swipe or the 5 Gold Gloves part either. My point is, Derek Jeter's offense clearly made up for his tolerable defense. Sorry you didn't analize it correctly. 😉 And still one of the most overrated players ever. You can't be serious!! Say what ever you want about Jeter's defense, but a MLB player doesn't hit .310 lifetime, have 3,465 hits and 4 World Series rings being "one of the most overrated players ever." That is just an idiotic statement. Go read WAR and Peace and get back to us real soon with some more analytical garbage.
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Post by aztecryan on Aug 21, 2019 13:33:04 GMT -8
And still one of the most overrated players ever. You can't be serious!! Say what ever you want about Jeter's defense, but a MLB player doesn't hit .310 lifetime, have 3,465 hits and 4 World Series rings being "one of the most overrated players ever." That is just an idiotic statement. Go read WAR and Peace and get back to us real soon with some more analytical garbage. www.thesportscol.com/2019/02/is-derek-jeter-most-overrated-athlete-in-american-sports-history/Tons of information out there.
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Post by azson on Aug 21, 2019 14:47:42 GMT -8
If the Padres want to be one of those teams, their number crunching skils need to improve. They may understand the fundamentals of what they want to do, but all i see is Texas Rangers west. They are one step behind with their analytics. time and time again its as if they are "outsmarting" themselves to losses. case in point tonight. They let Quantril pitch the 6th when he should have been pulled. They let him throw 108 pitches. why? because Strahm is pitching tomorrow and he is probably only going to get 2 innings so they will be using the bullpen heavily. And why not, our braintrust saw that the team had Thursday off and had planned this "Spring Training" rotation as a way to "save our young arms." For all of their foresight may have very well cost them the game.. not that it matters, as the team threw in the towel 2 weeks before the All Star break. Now the MLB wants to why www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/columnist/bob-nightengale/2019/08/19/mlb-baseballs-old-timers-decry-state-modern-game/2047025001/ There is just no good reason for a fan to watch a Science Experiment where the outcome has ceased to become as important as the Scientific Process. Why? It's development. They said last week that Cal is going to throw the rest of the year restrictions free, to see what he can do. He's been a top 10 ERA pitcher in the 2nd half of the season. He didn't lose the game yesterday, the ballpark screwed him. The expected batting average on the home run by Galvis was .210. It was a total fluke. There are basically three good organizations that are fully analytics-driven : Tampa, Houston, LA. The Padres are getting there, but you have to have the right PD to go along with it. Oakland isn't on that 'fully analytics-driven' list? If not fully, awfully close.
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Post by aztecryan on Aug 21, 2019 14:55:12 GMT -8
Why? It's development. They said last week that Cal is going to throw the rest of the year restrictions free, to see what he can do. He's been a top 10 ERA pitcher in the 2nd half of the season. He didn't lose the game yesterday, the ballpark screwed him. The expected batting average on the home run by Galvis was .210. It was a total fluke. There are basically three good organizations that are fully analytics-driven : Tampa, Houston, LA. The Padres are getting there, but you have to have the right PD to go along with it. Oakland isn't on that 'fully analytics-driven' list? If not fully, awfully close. Not to the degree on the PD side that those others are. But they are involved, yes.
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