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Post by 84aztec96 on Jan 14, 2019 20:33:13 GMT -8
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Post by AlwaysAnAztec on Jan 16, 2019 11:11:59 GMT -8
Probably should be moved to the politics board. |
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Post by azson on Jan 16, 2019 11:17:04 GMT -8
Where on the chart does it show Rand Paul flying to Canada for socialized hernia surgery? |
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Post by AztecBill on Feb 20, 2019 7:36:26 GMT -8
I believe wholly in the free market but this chart mainly shows labor-intensive items versus items that can be automated. This chart shows the benefits of automation not the free market.
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Post by sandiegopete on Feb 20, 2019 16:04:41 GMT -8
Cheap labor equates to cheap manufactured goods. Seems to me the main issue in the USA is whether the U.S. should try to continue to base its economy on manufacturing or whether to base its economy on trade and financial services. There will always be a certain amount of manufacturing and raw materials production in any wealthy economy. The question is whether manufacturing can be competitive in a wealthy economy where workers require wages and benefits much greater than those in poorer economies. In today's world no economy can shut itself off from other economies and expect to survive.
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Post by AztecWilliam on Mar 23, 2020 12:13:53 GMT -8
Cheap labor equates to cheap manufactured goods. Seems to me the main issue in the USA is whether the U.S. should try to continue to base its economy on manufacturing or whether to base its economy on trade and financial services. There will always be a certain amount of manufacturing and raw materials production in any wealthy economy. The question is whether manufacturing can be competitive in a wealthy economy where workers require wages and benefits much greater than those in poorer economies. In today's world no economy can shut itself off from other economies and expect to survive. It seems to me that computerized automation is and will continue to make millions of more humans economically irrelevant. Well, that's not totally correct. Unemployed people are economically important because they need food, clothing, and shelter to survive. Didn't Biden suggest that those out of work can become computer programmers? For most people, that's not going to be an option. AzWm |
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Post by sdsuball on Dec 24, 2020 8:42:57 GMT -8
Where on the chart does it show Rand Paul flying to Canada for socialized hernia surgery? An important point here is that socialized medicine is cheaper then our current system, which is a mismatch of insurance providers, medicaid/medicare/veterans health administration, private providers, private, npo and public hospitals. This is true almost universally - the US has the highest cost of medicine per capita in the world, yet we rank in the 30's for quality of health care. Basically, our mismatch system incentivizes providers to run up costs (since insurance companies pay the bills, not us directly), and insurance companies take their 10% profit margin off the top. In fact, that's way Medicare is affordable and well run - Because it is run by the government. Now imagine how much better Medicaid/Medicare/VHA could be if they were all turned into one provider. Basically, it would allow us to negotiate much lower healthcare and drug prices. It would also allow you to go to any hospital, any doctor, any urgent care, without worrying about which provider my insurance company is partnered with. As someone who studied Economics in college, I can definitively say that our healthcare system would be much better if it was turned into a single payer system - aka. socialized medicine. There are some things that the market is good at (consumer goods), and some things that the market is bad is (providing public goods). You wouldn't want your fire fighters, or police officers, to be private for-hire - would you? Hmm, let's negotiate how much it will cost for three different firefighting stations to come put out my fire while my house is burning down. I think that I want to go with station A, except they are in Chula Vista. Station B is closer to where I live, but they are charging 25% more. You wouldn't <care> to waste time negotiating, or figuring out the cheapest provider, you would just want the closest firefighting station to come to you. Same with police officers. Well, it's the same thing with medicine. In the event of an emergency requiring a hospital visit, you want to go to the nearest hospital - not only a Sharp hospital, or only one of these 3, etc. Additionally, you don't research hospitals while you are having a heart attack to see which one can do the cheapest coronary bypass. No, of course not. Yet, the vulnerability of patients in critical situations is what allows Private medical providers to charge insane costs for healthcare. That is why you have a single payer system, that is why these prices are negotiated ahead of time, that is why you have one price per procedure for all hospitals. Because the free market does not work well at all in providing healthcare, or firefighting, or police. |
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Post by AztecBill on Feb 23, 2021 13:39:15 GMT -8
Health care:
Low cost
Universal
Quailty
You can only get 2 of those
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Post by Obsidian Edge on Nov 18, 2021 6:36:27 GMT -8
Where on the chart does it show Rand Paul flying to Canada for socialized hernia surgery? An important point here is that socialized medicine is cheaper then our current system, which is a mismatch of insurance providers, medicaid/medicare/veterans health administration, private providers, private, npo and public hospitals. This is true almost universally - the US has the highest cost of medicine per capita in the world, yet we rank in the 30's for quality of health care. Basically, our mismatch system incentivizes providers to run up costs (since insurance companies pay the bills, not us directly), and insurance companies take their 10% profit margin off the top. In fact, that's way Medicare is affordable and well run - Because it is run by the government. Now imagine how much better Medicaid/Medicare/VHA could be if they were all turned into one provider. Basically, it would allow us to negotiate much lower healthcare and drug prices. It would also allow you to go to any hospital, any doctor, any urgent care, without worrying about which provider my insurance company is partnered with. As someone who studied Economics in college, I can definitively say that our healthcare system would be much better if it was turned into a single payer system - aka. socialized medicine. There are some things that the market is good at (consumer goods), and some things that the market is bad is (providing public goods). You wouldn't want your fire fighters, or police officers, to be private for-hire - would you? Hmm, let's negotiate how much it will cost for three different firefighting stations to come put out my fire while my house is burning down. I think that I want to go with station A, except they are in Chula Vista. Station B is closer to where I live, but they are charging 25% more. You wouldn't <care> to waste time negotiating, or figuring out the cheapest provider, you would just want the closest firefighting station to come to you. Same with police officers. Well, it's the same thing with medicine. In the event of an emergency requiring a hospital visit, you want to go to the nearest hospital - not only a Sharp hospital, or only one of these 3, etc. Additionally, you don't research hospitals while you are having a heart attack to see which one can do the cheapest coronary bypass. No, of course not. Yet, the vulnerability of patients in critical situations is what allows Private medical providers to charge insane costs for healthcare. That is why you have a single payer system, that is why these prices are negotiated ahead of time, that is why you have one price per procedure for all hospitals. Because the free market does not work well at all in providing healthcare, or firefighting, or police. I agree that our current system is awful. Essentially you have government regulatory bodies and politicians serving the interests of large pharmaceutical and medical companies, causing costs to skyrocket for consumers. But the solution is not to implement more government, which is the primary driver of the unsustainable rise in cost. The solution is to remove government interference into these markets and thereby eliminate the mechanism these larges companies use to secure their monopolies. Fostering an environment with more competition and re-orienting transactions to be between consumer and producer without intervening middlemen or mandates will be the fastest way to drive costs down. And I disagree with your principle that the free market does not work well in healthcare. There are *very few* markets (if any) in which the free market would not provide optimal outcomes. Healthcare is certainly no exception. Take food for instance. Food is an essential product. Without it you will die. Yet acute hunger is almost non-existent in the U.S. Even the homeless generally have access to cheap food. You would think that food would be extremely expensive given how everyone needs it to live. The reason it's not expensive is that it is one of the largest markets in the U.S. with millions of suppliers all competing for consumers. There's no reason healthcare can't be the same. |
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