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Post by aztecmusician on Oct 11, 2018 10:22:02 GMT -8
Statistics would show otherwise, but keep on keepin' on. I mean, this is year three of the rebuild, so I can understand a little frustration, but I go back to the Houston comparison. They lost 111 games in 2013, steadily improving from that bottom floor to where they are now. It just comes down to culture and development. Those Houston rookies came up to the majors and hit like they belonged, the Padres youngsters haven’t.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2018 13:14:20 GMT -8
I look at what the Tampa Bay D Rays did this year, 90 wins in a tougher division than what the Padres play in, Kevin Cash had his team focused and ready for business. Do the D Rays have more talent than the Padres? No. You can play the “rebuild card” for only so long, this team under Green needs to show something soon. If they go out of the gate next season 15-26, I think it may be time for a change. Padre fans and management/ownership have gotten too used to the “of course we suck, we’re rebuilding” attitude. A rebuild can sometimes be accelerated by a managerial change, a different approach doesn’t necessarily mean starting over. I'm not playing the rebuild card, the organization is. I just can't blame the manager for "only" winning 66 games when he had a team on opening day that had friggin Pirela as its cleanup hitter and Margot leading off. Only two established MLB hitters in Hosmer and Myers. If you want to blame someone, blame the ownership or the GM. Deserved or not, it's more fair. When you trade your only All-Star to the Indians for prospects, you're clearly still rebuilding. I'm sorry that the rebuild has not gone to your liking and only been three years, but it doesn't work that way in the majors. The Astros had six consecutive seasons under .500 including THREE 100 loss seasons before they broke through. My problem with you is you have the lazyest takes around. Nothing to support your argument or anything profound, your message is basically just "Well, he should have found a way to win some games SOMEHOW", talent be damned. WTF is that? LOL.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2018 13:16:43 GMT -8
Statistics would show otherwise, but keep on keepin' on. I mean, this is year three of the rebuild, so I can understand a little frustration, but I go back to the Houston comparison. They lost 111 games in 2013, steadily improving from that bottom floor to where they are now. It just comes down to culture and development. Those Houston rookies came up to the majors and hit like they belonged, the Padres youngsters haven’t. You could argue the Padres version of Singleton, Altuve, Springer, etc. are not yet up on the big league club. The best is yet to come, sir. Good luck to you.
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Post by aztecmusician on Oct 11, 2018 20:25:09 GMT -8
This is the 3rd rebuilding attempt since Petco opened.
When two of the Pads top prospects get a cup of coffee and hit .205 and .178 respectively, that doesn’t exactly instill optimism.
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Post by aardvark on Oct 11, 2018 21:10:43 GMT -8
My concern is the batting coach at El Paso is strongly being considered for the job to replace Stairs. He was in charge of a team that struck out at an even higher rate than the Padres did this past season.
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Post by aztecryan on Oct 11, 2018 21:53:01 GMT -8
I wouldn't read too much into EP's strikeout numbers - Inflated by a bunch of non-prospects like Guerra, Peterson and Coleman. Burkhart has continuity with a lot of the roster and is highly thought of internally. At some point, they need something to click.
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Post by aardvark on Oct 12, 2018 7:07:08 GMT -8
I wouldn't read too much into EP's strikeout numbers - Inflated by a bunch of non-prospects like Guerra, Peterson and Coleman. Burkhart has continuity with a lot of the roster and is highly thought of internally. At some point, they need something to click. "At some point, they need something to click." Yes. Yes they do.
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Post by aztecryan on Oct 12, 2018 8:06:34 GMT -8
Sorry I should have finished that - I meant to say at some point they need to have a consistent message and having someone who has previously worked with the roster could be a big asset. I don't think it's coincidence that Franmil and Hunter were considerably better after they were sent down and came back up to the bigs.
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Post by AztecBill on Oct 12, 2018 13:54:33 GMT -8
I look at what the Tampa Bay D Rays did this year, 90 wins in a tougher division than what the Padres play in, Kevin Cash had his team focused and ready for business. Do the D Rays have more talent than the Padres? No. You can play the “rebuild card” for only so long, this team under Green needs to show something soon. If they go out of the gate next season 15-26, I think it may be time for a change. Padre fans and management/ownership have gotten too used to the “of course we suck, we’re rebuilding” attitude. A rebuild can sometimes be accelerated by a managerial change, a different approach doesn’t necessarily mean starting over. I'm not playing the rebuild card, the organization is. I just can't blame the manager for "only" winning 66 games when he had a team on opening day that had friggin Pirela as its cleanup hitter and Margot leading off. Only two established MLB hitters in Hosmer and Myers. If you want to blame someone, blame the ownership or the GM. Deserved or not, it's more fair. When you trade your only All-Star to the Indians for prospects, you're clearly still rebuilding. I'm sorry that the rebuild has not gone to your liking and only been three years, but it doesn't work that way in the majors. The Astros had six consecutive seasons under .500 including THREE 100 loss seasons before they broke through. My problem with you is you have the lazyest takes around. Nothing to support your argument or anything profound, your message is basically just "Well, he should have found a way to win some games SOMEHOW", talent be damned. WTF is that? LOL. I don't see trading Hand to the Indians as a rebuilding move at all. We still had the best bullpen after the trade and got a catcher who will play with the team in the near future. It was just a smart move for the present/near future.
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Post by AztecBill on Oct 12, 2018 13:55:20 GMT -8
Statistics would show otherwise, but keep on keepin' on. I mean, this is year three of the rebuild, so I can understand a little frustration, but I go back to the Houston comparison. They lost 111 games in 2013, steadily improving from that bottom floor to where they are now. It just comes down to culture and development. Those Houston rookies came up to the majors and hit like they belonged, the Padres youngsters haven’t. You are reading a lot into a very small sample size. Mike Trout hit .220/.281/.390 in more at bats as those two combined (123). He followed that with .326/.399/.564 the next season. Freddie Freeman hit .167. now (.309/.388/.505) Max Muncy hit less HRs per AB than Mejia and hit .206 in 106 AB. He has a .900+ ops this season. 56 and 48 ABs is nothing.
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Post by aztecryan on Oct 13, 2018 11:03:30 GMT -8
Those Houston rookies must have missed the memo when Springer hit .236 his rookie season.
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Post by aztecmusician on Oct 16, 2018 9:37:05 GMT -8
My concern is the batting coach at El Paso is strongly being considered for the job to replace Stairs. He was in charge of a team that struck out at an even higher rate than the Padres did this past season. Promotion from within a system which produces a steady stream of .200 hitters..... Probably not a great idea.
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Post by aztecryan on Oct 16, 2018 12:28:58 GMT -8
My concern is the batting coach at El Paso is strongly being considered for the job to replace Stairs. He was in charge of a team that struck out at an even higher rate than the Padres did this past season. Promotion from within a system which produces a steady stream of .200 hitters..... Probably not a great idea. Oh yeah, super steady. I guess we better send the memo to Franmil, Hunter, Jankowski and so on because their averages are too high. Burkhart is well thought of and clear adjustments were made by Renfroe and Reyes after they were sent down and came back up.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2018 13:26:37 GMT -8
I'm not playing the rebuild card, the organization is. I just can't blame the manager for "only" winning 66 games when he had a team on opening day that had friggin Pirela as its cleanup hitter and Margot leading off. Only two established MLB hitters in Hosmer and Myers. If you want to blame someone, blame the ownership or the GM. Deserved or not, it's more fair. When you trade your only All-Star to the Indians for prospects, you're clearly still rebuilding. I'm sorry that the rebuild has not gone to your liking and only been three years, but it doesn't work that way in the majors. The Astros had six consecutive seasons under .500 including THREE 100 loss seasons before they broke through. My problem with you is you have the lazyest takes around. Nothing to support your argument or anything profound, your message is basically just "Well, he should have found a way to win some games SOMEHOW", talent be damned. WTF is that? LOL. I don't see trading Hand to the Indians as a rebuilding move at all. We still had the best bullpen after the trade and got a catcher who will play with the team in the near future. It was just a smart move for the present/near future. I would agree with that. And I am sure you saw my point. The Mejia trade made a ton of sense, it was to me a no brainer at the time, but I am not 100% convinced they make that deal if they are seriously contending for a playoff spot.
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Post by AztecBill on Oct 16, 2018 16:20:10 GMT -8
I don't see trading Hand to the Indians as a rebuilding move at all. We still had the best bullpen after the trade and got a catcher who will play with the team in the near future. It was just a smart move for the present/near future. I would agree with that. And I am sure you saw my point. The Mejia trade made a ton of sense, it was to me a no brainer at the time, but I am not 100% convinced they make that deal if they are seriously contending for a playoff spot. If they were contending this year they definitely would not have made that trade. I was merely differentiating this trade from the Kimbrel trade, which was designed to improve the Padres 3 or 4 years down the line
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Post by aztecmusician on Oct 16, 2018 16:56:39 GMT -8
Promotion from within a system which produces a steady stream of .200 hitters..... Probably not a great idea. Oh yeah, super steady. I guess we better send the memo to Franmil, Hunter, Jankowski and so on because their averages are too high. Burkhart is well thought of and clear adjustments were made by Renfroe and Reyes after they were sent down and came back up. A partial list, last 2 seasons, could have been much longer. Most of these guys were completely overmatched and sent back down after 50 abs. Yes, a steady stream. Carlos Asuje .196 Rafael Lopez .176 Ryan Schimfp .158 Jabari Blash .213 Dusty Coleman .227 Luis Torrens .167 Luis Sardinas .163 Alan Cordoba .208 Matt Sczuzur .187 Luis Urias .208 Franchey Cordero .238 Austin Hedges .210 Hector Sanchez .208 Chase d’Arnaud .143 Jemile Weeks .140 Christian Bethencourt .220 If this were the Red Sox, Dodgers, Yankees, I would say sure promote from within. I’m happy for Hunter Renfroe and Franmil Reyes and I like Jankowski’s glove. But there are no Mookie Betts, Aaron Judges or Cory Seagers coming out of this farm system....yet. The team has been hitting two twenty something since the end of the steroid era, it’s time for a different approach instead of doubling down on the current system
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Post by aztecryan on Oct 16, 2018 18:48:44 GMT -8
Who, of any of those players....was projected to actually be GOOD? The only two on that list with any real offensive upside are Cordero and Urias, who don't have enough of a sample size to draw any meaningful data from. To include players like Cordoba, who never played above rookie level ball prior to being a Rule V draftee or Luis Torrens, who was never above A ball....just shows a fundamental lack of understanding. Of course those players are going to struggle at the major leagues, not to mention they never worked with Burkhart in any capacity, which was the original point that was being made. With respect, you're out of your depth here. Compiling a list of a bunch of journeymen players, AAAA organizational filler and rookies doesn't provide a backbone to your argument.
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Post by aztecmusician on Oct 17, 2018 0:48:33 GMT -8
The point is this organization has been churning out a steady stream of these guys for a long time. If it was just an off year or two, I guess it happens. However this has been going on since the G W Bush Presidency and that indicates flaws in spotting and developing hitters. I have to conclude there is something not clicking along the line. Promoting from within doesn’t fix the issue, it just leads to more of the same.
Your assertion that I am out of my depth is odd since your baseball takes and projections are wildly inaccurate. Do you actually work for the Padres? You would fit right in with that bunch.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2018 6:18:12 GMT -8
Did you just post a list of a bunch of (mostly) random guys who had poor hitting stats over the years? Interesting approach.
I haven't heard of 4 or 5 of those guys, LOL.
To me, this is the first time I can recall where I am taking the Padres rebuild seriously. It's also the first time I can recall where the national media and scouting market is rating them as the top, or at least Top 3 anywhere you look as far as a farm system rating. Which should give any fan hope and some credibility.
If the Padres are not in the playoffs by 2021 (and contending for a spot in 2020), I will consider the rebuild a failure.
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Post by aztecryan on Oct 17, 2018 7:53:42 GMT -8
Did you just post a list of a bunch of (mostly) random guys who had poor hitting stats over the years? Interesting approach. I haven't heard of 4 or 5 of those guys, LOL. To me, this is the first time I can recall where I am taking the Padres rebuild seriously. It's also the first time I can recall where the national media and scouting market is rating them as the top, or at least Top 3 anywhere you look as far as a farm system rating. Which should give any fan hope and some credibility. If the Padres are not in the playoffs by 2021 (and contending for a spot in 2020), I will consider the rebuild a failure. Which is the logical and rational course to take, given the growth of the farm system. I mean lumping a guy like Luis Urias into a list like that is beyond ridiculous.
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