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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2019 9:24:14 GMT -8
Many teams over committ in recruiting and let Darwinism do it's thing. Scolly's are year to year. Do you guys watched Chopped? We take 5 Freshman, then someone will get chopped beacuse they don't use the mystery ingredient. No. That hasn't been the way SDSU recruits under Fisher & Dutch. There have been a very small number of "semi" exceptions, but the Aztec program has been about family and loyalty. Not 'Darwinism,' There is no such thing as "semi exceptions." Fisher absolutely encouraged players to leave when he felt it necessary. I am sure that he approached those conversations with his trademark kindness. Fisher's self described recruiting style was to vigorously pursue a small number of recruits each year. Success hinged on landing a high percentage of these targets. This approach wasn't as effective late in Fish's tenure. We don't know what Dutcher's philosophy is as he has yet to fill a roster let alone face a situation where he could move on from a recruiting mistake by replacing him with a new player. Many will point to a changing college landscape to excuse poor scheduling, recruiting failures, and a slide in national relevance. If Dutcher wants to be effective he needs to be willing to make adjustments to his approach. Only then will we see him use all of his scholarships. Only when he has secured commitments from enough quality recruits will he even be faced with the decision to possibly move on from a past mistake. If the new recruit is sufficiently talented the decision will be a no brainer. Nevada has had much better rosters in both depth and top level talent. They've been to the NCAA tournament multiple years in a row. They've been ranked a lot over past few years, including multiple weeks in the top ten. They've had deep post season runs AND their scheduling has been better than ours. All of this has been achieved despite changes in college basketball that has made everything more difficult for mid-major teams. Guess where all of that started, recruiting. Nevada's ability to bring high quality transfers and recruits year after year built that program. Their willingness to replace good or even really good players for great ones proved to be a strength not an impediment. This isn't a moral question. Scholarships are year to year. Kids transfer in and out of programs seemingly on a whim. With their year-round basketball schedules we are seeing more and more kids with major long lasting injuries.
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Post by Gundo on Sept 13, 2019 9:28:49 GMT -8
OV to Illinos this weekend.
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Post by Frantic on Sept 13, 2019 10:01:15 GMT -8
No. That hasn't been the way SDSU recruits under Fisher & Dutch. There have been a very small number of "semi" exceptions, but the Aztec program has been about family and loyalty. Not 'Darwinism,' There is no such thing as "semi exceptions." Fisher absolutely encouraged players to leave when he felt it necessary. I am sure that he approached those conversations with his trademark kindness. There haven't been many. Over the past decade I can think of Alec Johnson, LaBradford Franklin, James Johnson, and Kevin Zabo. It seems they saw the writing on the wall and/or were encouraged to transfer. Others who transferred (such as Federico, Perez, U'U) were never really in the hunt for minutes.
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Post by Ambivalent_Fan on Sept 13, 2019 10:30:44 GMT -8
No. That hasn't been the way SDSU recruits under Fisher & Dutch. There have been a very small number of "semi" exceptions, but the Aztec program has been about family and loyalty. Not 'Darwinism,' There is no such thing as "semi exceptions." Fisher absolutely encouraged players to leave when he felt it necessary. I am sure that he approached those conversations with his trademark kindness. Fisher's self described recruiting style was to vigorously pursue a small number of recruits each year. Success hinged on landing a high percentage of these targets. This approach wasn't as effective late in Fish's tenure. We don't know what Dutcher's philosophy is as he has yet to fill a roster let alone face a situation where he could move on from a recruiting mistake by replacing him with a new player. Many will point to a changing college landscape to excuse poor scheduling, recruiting failures, and a slide in national relevance. If Dutcher wants to be effective he needs to be willing to make adjustments to his approach. Only then will we see him use all of his scholarships. Only when he has secured commitments from enough quality recruits will he even be faced with the decision to possibly move on from a past mistake. If the new recruit is sufficiently talented the decision will be a no brainer. Nevada has had much better rosters in both depth and top level talent. They've been to the NCAA tournament multiple years in a row. They've been ranked a lot over past few years, including multiple weeks in the top ten. They've had deep post season runs AND their scheduling has been better than ours. All of this has been achieved despite changes in college basketball that has made everything more difficult for mid-major teams. Guess where all of that started, recruiting. Nevada's ability to bring high quality transfers and recruits year after year built that program. Their willingness to replace good or even really good players for great ones proved to be a strength not an impediment. This isn't a moral question. Scholarships are year to year. Kids transfer in and out of programs seemingly on a whim. With their year-round basketball schedules we are seeing more and more kids with major long lasting injuries. - Agreed...there are no such things as semi-exceptions...they are exceptions to the rule or no exceptions to the rule...however...there have very few exceptions to the general implied rule "Players are recruited with the expectation that they will be a part of the 'Aztec for Life' tradition"...I suspect that this is mostly to differentiate ourselves from others schools who offer year-to-year scholarships...it's not hard for a potential recruit to see how former players have been treated by players / coaches in the past.
- Although you said that Nevada had better depth...they in fact did not...they typically only went 6-7 deep...and this was their achilles heel in the end
- Nevada (specifically Musselman) built their team solely on high quality transfers not by recruiting and/or developing Freshmen (Drew being the lone exception). This formula left the closet bare once Musselman bolted. Alford also seems to be building his team mainly around xfers instead of highly touted Freshman (although he did recruit 4 Freshman this past year)
- While it perhaps is not a "moral issue" it does speak volumes about "trust" and using "trust" as a recruiting tool (or using the "lack of trust" as a recruiting tool against other schools)...you can't say one thing and then do another thing
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Post by ignoranus on Sept 13, 2019 10:37:36 GMT -8
Jervaughn Johnson?
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Post by FLAztec4Life on Sept 13, 2019 10:50:55 GMT -8
There is no such thing as "semi exceptions." Fisher absolutely encouraged players to leave when he felt it necessary. I am sure that he approached those conversations with his trademark kindness. Fisher's self described recruiting style was to vigorously pursue a small number of recruits each year. Success hinged on landing a high percentage of these targets. This approach wasn't as effective late in Fish's tenure. We don't know what Dutcher's philosophy is as he has yet to fill a roster let alone face a situation where he could move on from a recruiting mistake by replacing him with a new player. Many will point to a changing college landscape to excuse poor scheduling, recruiting failures, and a slide in national relevance. If Dutcher wants to be effective he needs to be willing to make adjustments to his approach. Only then will we see him use all of his scholarships. Only when he has secured commitments from enough quality recruits will he even be faced with the decision to possibly move on from a past mistake. If the new recruit is sufficiently talented the decision will be a no brainer. Nevada has had much better rosters in both depth and top level talent. They've been to the NCAA tournament multiple years in a row. They've been ranked a lot over past few years, including multiple weeks in the top ten. They've had deep post season runs AND their scheduling has been better than ours. All of this has been achieved despite changes in college basketball that has made everything more difficult for mid-major teams. Guess where all of that started, recruiting. Nevada's ability to bring high quality transfers and recruits year after year built that program. Their willingness to replace good or even really good players for great ones proved to be a strength not an impediment. This isn't a moral question. Scholarships are year to year. Kids transfer in and out of programs seemingly on a whim. With their year-round basketball schedules we are seeing more and more kids with major long lasting injuries. - Agreed...there are no such things as semi-exceptions...they are exceptions to the rule or no exceptions to the rule...however...there have very few exceptions to the general implied rule "Players are recruited with the expectation that they will be a part of the 'Aztec for Life' tradition"...I suspect that this is mostly to differentiate ourselves from others schools who offer year-to-year scholarships...it's not hard for a potential recruit to see how former players have been treated by players / coaches in the past.
- Although you said that Nevada had better depth...they in fact did not...they typically only went 6-7 deep...and this was their achilles heel in the end
- Nevada (specifically Musselman) built their team solely on high quality transfers not by recruiting and/or developing Freshmen (Drew being the lone exception). This formula left the closet bare once Musselman bolted. Alford also seems to be building his team mainly around xfers instead of highly touted Freshman (although he did recruit 4 Freshman this past year)
- While it perhaps is not a "moral issue" it does speak volumes about "trust" and using "trust" as a recruiting tool (or using the "lack of trust" as a recruiting tool against other schools)...you can't say one thing and then do another thing
Question: Does this have anything to do with Coleman Hawkins? or is this fact finding about another school..... Back to the topic........ I for one am pulling for Coleman to commit to us.....he’s family regardless if he doesn’t, but sure would be great if he did!!!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2019 10:59:51 GMT -8
There is no such thing as "semi exceptions." Fisher absolutely encouraged players to leave when he felt it necessary. I am sure that he approached those conversations with his trademark kindness. Fisher's self described recruiting style was to vigorously pursue a small number of recruits each year. Success hinged on landing a high percentage of these targets. This approach wasn't as effective late in Fish's tenure. We don't know what Dutcher's philosophy is as he has yet to fill a roster let alone face a situation where he could move on from a recruiting mistake by replacing him with a new player. Many will point to a changing college landscape to excuse poor scheduling, recruiting failures, and a slide in national relevance. If Dutcher wants to be effective he needs to be willing to make adjustments to his approach. Only then will we see him use all of his scholarships. Only when he has secured commitments from enough quality recruits will he even be faced with the decision to possibly move on from a past mistake. If the new recruit is sufficiently talented the decision will be a no brainer. Nevada has had much better rosters in both depth and top level talent. They've been to the NCAA tournament multiple years in a row. They've been ranked a lot over past few years, including multiple weeks in the top ten. They've had deep post season runs AND their scheduling has been better than ours. All of this has been achieved despite changes in college basketball that has made everything more difficult for mid-major teams. Guess where all of that started, recruiting. Nevada's ability to bring high quality transfers and recruits year after year built that program. Their willingness to replace good or even really good players for great ones proved to be a strength not an impediment. This isn't a moral question. Scholarships are year to year. Kids transfer in and out of programs seemingly on a whim. With their year-round basketball schedules we are seeing more and more kids with major long lasting injuries. - Agreed...there are no such things as semi-exceptions...they are exceptions to the rule or no exceptions to the rule...however...there have very few exceptions to the general implied rule "Players are recruited with the expectation that they will be a part of the 'Aztec for Life' tradition"...I suspect that this is mostly to differentiate ourselves from others schools who offer year-to-year scholarships...it's not hard for a potential recruit to see how former players have been treated by players / coaches in the past.
- Although you said that Nevada had better depth...they in fact did not...they typically only went 6-7 deep...and this was their achilles heel in the end
- Nevada (specifically Musselman) built their team solely on high quality transfers not by recruiting and/or developing Freshmen (Drew being the lone exception). This formula left the closet bare once Musselman bolted. Alford also seems to be building his team mainly around xfers instead of highly touted Freshman (although he did recruit 4 Freshman this past year)
- While it perhaps is not a "moral issue" it does speak volumes about "trust" and using "trust" as a recruiting tool (or using the "lack of trust" as a recruiting tool against other schools)...you can't say one thing and then do another thing
All of this is gobbledygook. These are your views, not necessarily those of the current or former coaches. It isn't how Fish ran the team or necessarily how Dutcher would behave if he could actually attract enough quality recruits for this to even be an option. For arguments sake, let's take a closer look. Trust couldn't fill our roster. Nevada was on the other hand was overflowing with talent willing to commit to the team. Nevada not only got more transfers they got a higher quality of player. They were able to land a 5 star big in Brown, a feat that we were never able to accomplish. Their tactics were effective in today's world of college basketball. On multiple levels, we haven't been getting it done. (Had the Aztecs had to lose a d'erryl Williams, Seiko, or narain to get a Brown or Caroline I am convinced that Dutcher and Fisher would have done so. When I mentioned the depth of Nevada I didn't mean the active roster but the roster as a whole. their best 2 players were better than our top 2. Their 3-6 were individually better than ours. Their 13 scholarship players had more talent than the Aztec 12 and yet they still let players go situationally.
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Post by ignoranus on Sept 13, 2019 11:09:21 GMT -8
And Nevada LOST most of their games vs. the Aztecs, even with all of those better players.
How'd that happen?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2019 14:07:42 GMT -8
And Nevada LOST most of their games vs. the Aztecs, even with all of those better players. How'd that happen? I would trade players and results with Nevada over that period in a heartbeat. Their disappointing losses against don't compare to our losses to USD and Brown. Their highs we're higher, our lows were lower, and seasons better as awhile.
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Post by Den60 on Sept 13, 2019 14:12:01 GMT -8
And Nevada LOST most of their games vs. the Aztecs, even with all of those better players. How'd that happen? I would trade players and results with Nevada over that period in a heartbeat. Their disappointing losses against don't compare to our losses to USD and Brown. Their highs we're higher, our lows were lower, and seasons better as awhile. Two years. That is the duration of their success. They ain't a dynasty and just had to replace their coach with one who failed at UCLA with a large amount of talent at his disposal.
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Post by chris92065 on Sept 13, 2019 14:39:27 GMT -8
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Post by FLAztec4Life on Sept 13, 2019 14:48:44 GMT -8
Taking his time might not work in his or our favor.... Makes me think he is waiting for a bigger offer.
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Post by fisherville on Sept 13, 2019 19:12:16 GMT -8
Taking his time might not work in his or our favor.... Makes me think he is waiting for a bigger offer. Given that he is currently taking visits he probably would wait just to see how the season goes for the teams and make a more informed decision. If he was waiting for different offers he wouldn't be taking OV's. We can definitely use Hawkins but don't NEED him
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Post by Gundo on Sept 14, 2019 8:38:58 GMT -8
Hawkins in Champaign, IL this weekend, tow more OV's after this weekend.
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Post by chris92065 on Sept 14, 2019 9:41:07 GMT -8
Hawkins in Champaign, IL this weekend, tow more OV's after this weekend. Beat you to it.
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Post by Gundo on Sept 14, 2019 18:26:10 GMT -8
Hawkins has Chicago, IL ties. Hence Illini & Marquette (WI) OVs
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Post by aztecsfan05 on Sept 16, 2019 6:46:22 GMT -8
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Post by Gundo on Sept 16, 2019 8:15:05 GMT -8
Marquette OV cancelled could replace it with DePaul. Marquette off his list due to recent signing. He could decide this week between Illini, Rutgers, SDSU. illinipulse.com/illini-check-all-the-boxes-for-coleman-hawkins/His connection to Chicago, IL is explained here: “My mom only played in high school but my dad grew up in Chicago and played at C.V.S. High school and then went to a JuCo called Colby in Kansas," Coleman said. "Then he played at San Diego State. Illini PULSE
"If Coleman chooses not to decide this week, a trip to DePaul sounds to be in the cards. Which wouldn’t be a good sign for Illinois. If Coleman chooses to announce this week, I believe it will be Illinois. That’s the sense and vibe I get. Not just from my conversation. Staff feels really good as well. They love Coleman’s game; Dad knows his son will be in good hands. It’s a win/win!"
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Post by johnnyutah on Sept 16, 2019 11:48:33 GMT -8
Marquette OV cancelled could replace it with DePaul. Marquette off his list due to recent signing. He could decide this week between Illini, Rutgers, SDSU. illinipulse.com/illini-check-all-the-boxes-for-coleman-hawkins/His connection to Chicago, IL is explained here: “My mom only played in high school but my dad grew up in Chicago and played at C.V.S. High school and then went to a JuCo called Colby in Kansas," Coleman said. "Then he played at San Diego State. Illini PULSE
"If Coleman chooses not to decide this week, a trip to DePaul sounds to be in the cards. Which wouldn’t be a good sign for Illinois. If Coleman chooses to announce this week, I believe it will be Illinois. That’s the sense and vibe I get. Not just from my conversation. Staff feels really good as well. They love Coleman’s game; Dad knows his son will be in good hands. It’s a win/win!" Interesting that there's no mention of USC. If he announces this week, I'd rather be the team he just visited, but seems like SDSU is right there and if he ends up going to Illinois better to know now. I really hope we get him though -- it makes sense that he'd fit that McDaniels/Pope role. I assume Yanni will fill that role this year and then next year is a question mark that'd coincide with his freshman year.
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Post by Gundo on Sept 16, 2019 13:20:05 GMT -8
Marquette signed Osasere Ighodaro over the weekend, so that killed his OV. No word on USC, who have only sgned Mobley but have bigger named recruits ahead of Hawkins. Hawkins visited Rutgers earlier in the year, that offer still stands. DePaul could be a courtesy OV since Dad is from Chicago and has ties. PePaul has 30+ offers out, zero committed in early signing.
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