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Post by SDSU-Alum2003 on May 11, 2017 12:48:32 GMT -8
It has a very, very good chance to pass. And it only needs 50%+1 I think as time goes by, that chance of passing will become less and less. Perhaps. It depends on if SDSU gets on board or not.
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Post by aardvark on May 11, 2017 12:54:56 GMT -8
I think as time goes by, that chance of passing will become less and less. Perhaps. It depends on if SDSU gets on board or not. Agreed. If SDSU is on board, it will probably pass resoundingly. Time will tell if that would be a good thing for SDSU or not.
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Post by AccessBowlTime on May 11, 2017 13:56:37 GMT -8
I doubt the city fathers had no intention of placing the initiative on the ballot until it became obvious they needed to. I think they had decided to just accept the signatures and to then lick their collective index finger and hold it up to the wind. They didn't even need to wait for verification of the requisite number in order to realize the taxpayers weren't going to stand for approval of the FSI plan or any other for the Qualcomm site without a public vote.
Just as obvious as that realization by the city a couple months ago is the writing on the wall that the initiative will pass if SDSU supports it. Still unclear is whether the initiative will go down to defeat if SDSU continues to refuse to do so. Here's my guess.
I think if FSI persists in marching Landon Donovan and Nick Stone out every week to level disrespect at SDSU for insisting on a stadium bigger than 25,000 or so that the administration will continue to get its hackles up about engaging in further negotiations and eventually the deadline will pass for amendment of the ballot language. If that happens SDSU will still be around regardless of the outcome of the election. However, if that happens and the initiative fails, FSI's name is going to be mud.
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Post by aardvark on May 11, 2017 14:10:13 GMT -8
I doubt the city fathers had no intention of placing the initiative on the ballot until it became obvious they needed to. I think they had decided to just accept the signatures and to then lick their collective index finger and hold it up to the wind. They didn't even need to wait for verification of the requisite number in order to realize the taxpayers weren't going to stand for approval of the FSI plan or any other for the Qualcomm site without a public vote. Just as obvious as that realization by the city a couple months ago is the writing on the wall that the initiative will pass if SDSU supports it. Still unclear is whether the initiative will go down to defeat if SDSU continues to refuse to do so. Here's my guess. I think if FSI persists in marching Landon Donovan and Nick Stone out every week to level disrespect at SDSU for insisting on a stadium bigger than 25,000 or so that the administration will continue to get its hackles up about engaging in further negotiations and eventually the deadline will pass for amendment of the ballot language. If that happens SDSU will still be around regardless of the outcome of the election. However, if that happens and the initiative fails, FSI's name is going to be mud. Two things--their ideal stadium size is 22k, not 25k, and now FSI is trotting out Shannon MacMillan as another supporter/investor in this big-money dog-and-pony show.
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Post by rebar619 on May 11, 2017 14:26:21 GMT -8
I hate to break it to you guys, but the FS proposal is polling very well. Even SDSU internally recognizes this. As long as it polls well SDSU has ZERO leverage in the situation unless the mayor steps in. As we have seen, the mayor has no balls and will do no such thing. It looks more and more to me like SDSU is S.O.L. When you have no money and no leadership this is the result. Honestly, we shouldn't be surprised.
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Post by sdcoug on May 11, 2017 14:43:56 GMT -8
Unfortunately, every plan that will EVER be put on the table will be attacked on many fronts. It's SD, and that's the way city governments & opposition groups work here and in every big city. Unfortunately, at the end of the day things just get delayed & nothing gets done. Paralysis by over-analysis. A "we can always do better" mentality, year after year after year. Heck, I think Spanos' plan he presented 10-12 years ago (or whenever it was) looks pretty good right now in hindsight, but at the time it was "we can do better". We never did. We'll see if SD can come up with a better plan moving forward. Not all that confident right now. I'd bet that at the end of the day we'll lose the MLS, the Q will suck up an extra year or two of losses that didn't need to happen, and we'll be struggling to figure out what options we have in 2 years. Hope I'm wrong. maybe in most big cities but apparently not Atlanta and their burbs where 2 brand spanking new stadium open this year and Vegas with a new Arena open and a brand new NFL stadium on the way. San Diego and San Diegans stub their toes more often than most and nothing gets done here. It's sad IMO. Too many people stuck in the 60s not wanting anything new and shiny. Even Atlanta had major opposition, and many believe the stadium deals were absolutely horrible. The Braves had to build their stadium in Cobb County instead of Fulton country, and people weren't too pleased about that either. Especially given the traffic. It happens everywhere. Getting things done is Seattle is brutal, and its not much different than Oakland, SF, etc. Vegas is probably the anomaly because Tourism is their #1 deal, and they've been starved for Pro sports for decades upon decades. Much easier sell IMO. There are definitely those living in the 60's everywhere. Sometimes that's a good thing here - we don't have traffic issues of a Seattle or Atlanta, but when it comes to redevelopment I agree with you. Petco eventually got done. Guess we can hope something else here will as well. PS. Even in Atlanta their new MLS team is currently going to be homeless for 2 games due to construction issues. The moral - sh#@ happens everywhere, not just in SD.
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Post by ab on May 11, 2017 15:09:44 GMT -8
maybe in most big cities but apparently not Atlanta and their burbs where 2 brand spanking new stadium open this year and Vegas with a new Arena open and a brand new NFL stadium on the way. San Diego and San Diegans stub their toes more often than most and nothing gets done here. It's sad IMO. Too many people stuck in the 60s not wanting anything new and shiny. Even Atlanta had major opposition, and many believe the stadium deals were absolutely horrible. The Braves had to build their stadium in Cobb County instead of Fulton country, and people weren't too pleased about that either. Especially given the traffic. It happens everywhere. Getting things done is Seattle is brutal, and its not much different than Oakland, SF, etc. Vegas is probably the anomaly because Tourism is their #1 deal, and they've been starved for Pro sports for decades upon decades. Much easier sell IMO. There are definitely those living in the 60's everywhere. Sometimes that's a good thing here - we don't have traffic issues of a Seattle or Atlanta, but when it comes to redevelopment I agree with you. Petco eventually got done. Guess we can hope something else here will as well. PS. Even in Atlanta their new MLS team is currently going to be homeless for 2 games due to construction issues. The moral - sh#@ happens everywhere, not just in SD. ah but the difference Atlanta gets it done big-time while in San Diego we get NOTHING done.
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Post by matteosandiego on May 11, 2017 15:11:09 GMT -8
I hate to break it to you guys, but the FS proposal is polling very well. Even SDSU internally recognizes this. As long as it polls well SDSU has ZERO leverage in the situation unless the mayor steps in. As we have seen, the mayor has no balls and will do no such thing. It looks more and more to me like SDSU is S.O.L. When you have no money and no leadership this is the result. Honestly, we shouldn't be surprised. Hate to take it here but ask Hillary how she polled? (no pun intended) A LOT can happen between now and November. On a similar note: www.mighty1090.com/episode/kaplan-sdsu-is-working-with-doug-manchester-to-develop-a-football-stadium/Scott Kaplan reporting SDSU is working with Doug Manchestor on their own stadium plan. If so, i firmly believe it will be a renovation of the existing Qualcomm stadium. It will address the issue of where do the Aztecs play after a few years at PetCo. And the city wouldnt have to pay to completely demolish the Q at all.
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Post by rebar619 on May 11, 2017 15:21:28 GMT -8
I hate to break it to you guys, but the FS proposal is polling very well. Even SDSU internally recognizes this. As long as it polls well SDSU has ZERO leverage in the situation unless the mayor steps in. As we have seen, the mayor has no balls and will do no such thing. It looks more and more to me like SDSU is S.O.L. When you have no money and no leadership this is the result. Honestly, we shouldn't be surprised. Hate to take it here but ask Hillary how she polled? (no pun intended) A LOT can happen between now and November. On a similar note: www.mighty1090.com/episode/kaplan-sdsu-is-working-with-doug-manchester-to-develop-a-football-stadium/Scott Kaplan reporting SDSU is working with Doug Manchestor on their own stadium plan. If so, i firmly believe it will be a renovation of the existing Qualcomm stadium. It will address the issue of where do the Aztecs play after a few years at PetCo. And the city wouldnt have to pay to completely demolish the Q at all. Yeah, I heard Kaplan say that on the radio. I have heard nothing about that. Hopefully if it is true it is an honest attempt by Manchester to get something done and not just an attempt to block FS. You can bring up the presidential election, but this is nothing like that situation. I would not bank on FS failing at this point. It is too well prepared and presented. To say otherwise is just willfully ignoring the facts. I am not sure I see a way for a Manchester option to happen if it comes to light. If something is going to happen it better come to light in the form of a fully detailed proposal in the next 4 weeks or it will be DOA.
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Post by matteosandiego on May 11, 2017 15:28:29 GMT -8
Hate to take it here but ask Hillary how she polled? (no pun intended) A LOT can happen between now and November. On a similar note: www.mighty1090.com/episode/kaplan-sdsu-is-working-with-doug-manchester-to-develop-a-football-stadium/Scott Kaplan reporting SDSU is working with Doug Manchestor on their own stadium plan. If so, i firmly believe it will be a renovation of the existing Qualcomm stadium. It will address the issue of where do the Aztecs play after a few years at PetCo. And the city wouldnt have to pay to completely demolish the Q at all. Yeah, I heard Kaplan say that on the radio. I have heard nothing about that. Hopefully if it is true it is an honest attempt by Manchester to get something done and not just an attempt to block FS. You can bring up the presidential election, but this is nothing like that situation. I would not bank on FS failing at this point. It is too well prepared and presented. To say otherwise is just willfully ignoring the facts. I am not sure I see a way for a Manchester option to happen if it comes to light. If something is going to happen it better come to light in the form of a fully detailed proposal in the next 4 weeks or it will be DOA. Yeah definitely much different examples, and that 50% +1 is an easy amount to get in the vote. But i think it will be very very close. If Manchester's plan is real, it may steal a large majority of people that are on the fringe. And it could be a total unifier for SDSU fans & alumni.
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Post by sdcoug on May 11, 2017 15:30:03 GMT -8
Even Atlanta had major opposition, and many believe the stadium deals were absolutely horrible. The Braves had to build their stadium in Cobb County instead of Fulton country, and people weren't too pleased about that either. Especially given the traffic. It happens everywhere. Getting things done is Seattle is brutal, and its not much different than Oakland, SF, etc. Vegas is probably the anomaly because Tourism is their #1 deal, and they've been starved for Pro sports for decades upon decades. Much easier sell IMO. There are definitely those living in the 60's everywhere. Sometimes that's a good thing here - we don't have traffic issues of a Seattle or Atlanta, but when it comes to redevelopment I agree with you. Petco eventually got done. Guess we can hope something else here will as well. PS. Even in Atlanta their new MLS team is currently going to be homeless for 2 games due to construction issues. The moral - sh#@ happens everywhere, not just in SD. ah but the difference Atlanta gets it done big-time while in San Diego we get NOTHING done. There is Petco, which is actually better than building SunTrust in another county. So can't say "nothing". Maybe "far & few between"? I'm guessing we could get a new football stadium easily if built just outside Alpine... 49ers had to build their stadium over an hour away from SF, Seattle couldn't every get a basketball arena despite many attempts, and Oakland can't get anything done. Sac-town eventually got a new arena but it took forever. We're not any different unfortunately.
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Post by rebar619 on May 11, 2017 15:38:34 GMT -8
Yeah, I heard Kaplan say that on the radio. I have heard nothing about that. Hopefully if it is true it is an honest attempt by Manchester to get something done and not just an attempt to block FS. You can bring up the presidential election, but this is nothing like that situation. I would not bank on FS failing at this point. It is too well prepared and presented. To say otherwise is just willfully ignoring the facts. I am not sure I see a way for a Manchester option to happen if it comes to light. If something is going to happen it better come to light in the form of a fully detailed proposal in the next 4 weeks or it will be DOA. Yeah definitely much different examples, and that 50% +1 is an easy amount to get in the vote. But i think it will be very very close. If Manchester's plan is real, it may steal a large majority of people that are on the fringe. And it could be a total unifier for SDSU fans & alumni. I think you are looking at things with Red and Black colored glasses. Even if Manchester's plan is real, it better be REALLY good and very detailed. The reason FS is doing so well is that they have put together a very good team, a detailed proposal, and presented on a daily basis on TV and radio. This isn't just about filling an NFL void. This is about a well developed proposal. That is the reason 1090 has given it rave reviews. Like it or not the general public has a favorable view of the FS project because it has been marketed very well while SDSU has stepped on it's d!ck time and again.
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Post by ab on May 11, 2017 15:50:00 GMT -8
ah but the difference Atlanta gets it done big-time while in San Diego we get NOTHING done. There is Petco, which is actually better than building SunTrust in another county. So can't say "nothing". Maybe "far & few between"? I'm guessing we could get a new football stadium easily if built just outside Alpine... 49ers had to build their stadium over an hour away from SF, Seattle couldn't every get a basketball arena despite many attempts, and Oakland can't get anything done. Sac-town eventually got a new arena but it took forever. We're not any different unfortunately. The difference is that in the Bay Area and Atlanta, they have multiple cities and counties where they found 1 group of politicians who saw the benefit of having new digs in their county and they made it happen. Same for Arlington, TX. While here we've got San Diego County only and only a few other cities where the politicians had no desire to step up nor any property to make it happen. In Sactown, they had their mayor carry the torch while in SDiego we've got mayor who seems to be afraid of his own shadow. SAD
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Post by matteosandiego on May 11, 2017 15:57:19 GMT -8
Yeah definitely much different examples, and that 50% +1 is an easy amount to get in the vote. But i think it will be very very close. If Manchester's plan is real, it may steal a large majority of people that are on the fringe. And it could be a total unifier for SDSU fans & alumni. I think you are looking at things with Red and Black colored glasses. Even if Manchester's plan is real, it better be REALLY good and very detailed. The reason FS is doing so well is that they have put together a very good team, a detailed proposal, and presented on a daily basis on TV and radio. This isn't just about filling an NFL void. This is about a well developed proposal. That is the reason 1090 has given it rave reviews. Like it or not the general public has a favorable view of the FS project because it has been marketed very well while SDSU has stepped on it's d!ck time and again. I definitely always have my red & black glasses on. And yes they have done a masterful job on this whole thing. The part that has always been noted is that the SDSU support is a huge one. If another plan is developed and endorsed by SDSU, it will go a long ways in showing that while the FS plan MAY be well constructed, its not what is BEST for San Diego AND it completely sets up SDSU to be a tenant and without room to grow. I'm not saying FS will pass or fail. But i am saying it will be close. IF it gets to that point. Who knows if FS concedes thru the Mayor and they get what they need.
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Post by pbnative on May 12, 2017 5:59:08 GMT -8
I hate to break it to you guys, but the FS proposal is polling very well. Even SDSU internally recognizes this. As long as it polls well SDSU has ZERO leverage in the situation unless the mayor steps in. As we have seen, the mayor has no balls and will do no such thing. It looks more and more to me like SDSU is S.O.L. When you have no money and no leadership this is the result. Honestly, we shouldn't be surprised. I'm sure it is polling great right now. Unchecked misinformation and lies will always poll great. What counts is what the polls look like when there is opposition with counter arguments and facts. I would suspect there will be a big campaign push against FS in the next month or 2.
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Post by AztecSports95 on May 12, 2017 7:42:01 GMT -8
#RecallKevinFaulconer
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Post by aztecwin on May 12, 2017 7:53:19 GMT -8
He sure seems to be dithering on this issue.
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Post by SDSU-Alum2003 on May 12, 2017 8:27:48 GMT -8
He sure seems to be dithering on this issue. No shock there... he is not a leader he is a follower.
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Post by myownwords on May 12, 2017 8:31:35 GMT -8
He sure seems to be dithering on this issue. No shock there... he is not a leader he is a follower. He took leadership courses from our recent and current admins. Now they all do incompetence well, with Brownian Motion alacrity.
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Post by sdcoug on May 12, 2017 9:43:51 GMT -8
I hate to break it to you guys, but the FS proposal is polling very well. Even SDSU internally recognizes this. As long as it polls well SDSU has ZERO leverage in the situation unless the mayor steps in. As we have seen, the mayor has no balls and will do no such thing. It looks more and more to me like SDSU is S.O.L. When you have no money and no leadership this is the result. Honestly, we shouldn't be surprised. Political polling has ZERO relevance until the wording that will be on the ballot is finalized, and last I checked I haven't seen that presented. Plus, it holds zero significance until you're withing 90 days of the election. Polling on individuals (i.e. Clinton/Trump) is very different than polling on measures. FSI has GREAT PR, so not surprising that top of mind perception is good. Being able to say it comes with a new sports team, new stadium, 4000+ residential units, more shopping, etc., all with no taxes SHOULD poll well. If it didn't they wouldn't be pushing for it to be on the ballot. I'd hope they'd be testing different ways to word their initiative, but its a little far out to be doing that but you never know. However, I don't think they'd be testing it using the opposition's argument as well. Would be curious to hear what wording they're using in their polls? Even the whattodowithq poll is extremely biased against FSI. You don't do a forced choice poll when the election is 6 months away. You have to include an undecided option, which this didn't, or those who haven't yet made a decision will tend to skew towards the negative.
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