|
Post by sdcoug on Aug 27, 2015 13:16:58 GMT -8
They sellout every home game and have some very zealous fans, much like SDSU in basketball. . They have had pretty good coaching over the years, but they were able to keep Peterson for many years while they developed an even stronger tradition of winning over a long period of time. SDSU gets a decent coach like Hoke and he leaves after a year and half, no continuity like SDSU has in basketball with Fisher. SDSU was lucky they were able to keep Fisher to build the team into what it is today. I guess you have to blame management since SDSU had Coryell, but could not keep or hire good coaches after he left. Rocky is doing a good job, just not sure he can put SDSU over the top. We'll see. They need a better offense. I prefer the uptempo spread style and that would attract a lot more fans and they really need more fans. Boise State probably has even less a chance to join a P5 conference than SDSU. They are better in football, but have no media market, no recruiting base, and have very low academic standards since they were just a JC school 20-30 years. That is false. In fact Boise St and SDSU have very similar attendance numbers. The major difference is the Albertsons Stadium only holds 36,000. The other major difference is Boise's school president put huge investments and support in their football program, while SDSU's president almost got the entire athletic department axed. They don't sell out and have actually seen a pretty big decline over the past few years, just like most programs in the MWC. They only drew 27k when we played them & 26k for Fresno. 32k does look better in a 36k stadium than a 60k+ stadium though. We've actually seen less of a decline over the past few years than BSU has.
Fresno actually has the best home attendance & the best local support in our conference.
|
|
|
Post by HighNTight on Aug 27, 2015 13:23:53 GMT -8
BYU was on that list between Boise St and Marshall, but their status as a non-P5 independent (and part-time P5 for the scheduling convenience of some resource conferences) making it a gray area that has the Aztecs at either #3 or #4 depending on if you count BYwho as a G5 or not ... On his Power Poll yes, but not on the ESPN link which factors in success vs. schedule. BYU falls in "honorable mentions," primarily due to the fact they should struggle against their schedule. Definitely a gray area on BYU, but I'd think anyone outside the P5 should count.
That Phil Steele is a busy guy ... tweaking his content enough for ESPN Insider while not contradicting himself on his Power Poll
|
|
|
Post by AztecWilliam on Aug 27, 2015 13:31:04 GMT -8
I have to start with a Bronx cheer for laaztec for not pointing out in his intro that he was linking us to a subscription site. I got all excited to read the list and then . . . Ugh!
As for why SDSU has been so disappointing for so long after such a great start historically capped by the meteoric rise of the program under Coryell and Gilbert, one only has to point to the administration. To be blunt, those people either did not give a dam or were simply incompetent. How else do you explain several of the coaching decisions starting with the firing of Claude Gilbert? Boise State has been just the opposite, with intelligent and consistent planning over time.
As for the fan base, I think if you check the records you will find that we still had good attendance in '81 and '82. Both years we had winning records, 7-5 and 6-5. (Had there been as many bowl games as now exist, both those teams would have gone bowling.) If was the disastrous 1982 season under Scovil that started the downhill slide. Stolz won the WAC in '86 and then bombed. Lugie built tremendous offenses but forgot how to coach defense. Tollner looked good for a while (once again, in '95 and '96, SDSU was cheated by the smaller number of existing bowl games), then simply disappeared down the rabbit hole. Tom was a good coach but a bad D-I hire, though by that time the program was awful. Also, the schedules Tom's teams had to face were absolutely brutal. No need to remind everybody of more recent coaches.
Maybe I should not be so hard on SDSU's administration. After all, their attitude toward atheletics appears to be pretty typical of the California State system. How else do you account for the long list of CSU schools, some with long football traditions (e.g., San Francisco State) that dropped football, plus all the newer schools that have never even considered competing in football? Now, compare that with the Middle West and Southwest, where football is king. Those guys have their priorities straight! Apparently, the state of Idaho is more like Texas and Florida in that regard than it is like California!
SDSU will never amount to much unless and until there is somebody in the president's office who will accept nothing less than a FB program equal to or better than that of Boise State. What are the odds that we will see somebody like that leading the school?
AzWm
|
|
|
Post by McQuervo on Aug 27, 2015 13:36:12 GMT -8
Sometimes I need to jump in...
Boise Junior College became a University in 1965 not 20 years ago as is commonly thought.
|
|
|
Post by myownwords on Aug 27, 2015 13:49:33 GMT -8
It's not the coaching, it's the PROGRAM overall. And it's been a LOT longer than 10 years. They've been strong for 16 years, so you have a history and a tradition of winning.
Koetter won at BSU & then went on to be a mediocre coach at ASU; Hawkins dominated at BSU then flopped at Colorado. It's not coaching; it's what they put around the coaches.
It's also the fact they can get kids in who wouldn't qualify elsewhere, or at least that's been the case. They got a LOT of borderline eligible recruits - believe it used to be called Prop 5's or something like that? So any kid who couldn't get into the UW would default to BSU, etc.
Starts with a good program, strong infrastructure, fan support, local business support & facilities, and then you fold in good coaching (but not necessarily great) & have some success. Then you maintain continuity, most often hiring from within & maintaining several of the same coaches. Hawkins was hired within; Peterson as well; and now Harsin. They didn't have to gamble with any "up & comer" nor even take a risk, really.
The fact they get significantly more in TV revenue gives them the edge as well, and will continue to do so until the contract is over.
We've been decent now for 5 years, so we're only about 10 years behind when it comes to tradition. Hopefully we follow the same path, if not pass them. Hmmmmm, there is a certain poster on this board that would reflexively frame those as "lazy hires". That's using his "own words". Only if the unnamed coach had a proven track record of mediocrity, and after many HC years, had zero suitors.
|
|
|
Post by TheSanDiegan on Aug 27, 2015 13:53:04 GMT -8
Out of curiosity, who was #2 on the list? Marshall. Thanks, SDC.
|
|
|
Post by AztecWilliam on Aug 27, 2015 13:58:21 GMT -8
That is false. In fact Boise St and SDSU have very similar attendance numbers. The major difference is the Albertsons Stadium only holds 36,000. The other major difference is Boise's school president put huge investments and support in their football program, while SDSU's president almost got the entire athletic department axed. They don't sell out and have actually seen a pretty big decline over the past few years, just like most programs in the MWC. They only drew 27k when we played them & 26k for Fresno. 32k does look better in a 36k stadium than a 60k+ stadium though. We've actually seen less of a decline over the past few years than BSU has.
Fresno actually has the best home attendance & the best local support in our conference.
Shrewd observation. In fact, I consider Fresno (and San Luis Obispo) to be similar to towns such as Norman, Lincoln, Ann Arbor, and maybe Boise as well. Relatively small, isolated, with a population willing to focus on the one big act in town. I guess you could also mention Starkville, Blacksburg, College Station, and Eugene. Some college FB programs are located in big cities, but not too many. USC and UCLA are two of those, but they have been established for generations. Also, if the Trojans or Bruins are having mediocre seasons, their attendance goes down. And then there is Miami of Florida, a school which, despite its many great teams, tends not to draw as well as one might expect. Seems that it helps to be the only act in a not too large town. AzWm
|
|
|
Post by sdcoug on Aug 27, 2015 14:03:53 GMT -8
Hmmmmm, there is a certain poster on this board that would reflexively frame those as "lazy hires". That's using his "own words". Only if the unnamed coach had a proven track record of mediocrity, and after many HC years, had zero suitors.You keep saying that but you have absolutely no clue if it's true or not. None.
BTW, what he did at NM wasn't mediocre. It was the best they've done in their history, or at least in 40+ years.
The BSU coaches that were hired had zero track records....and no other suiters...
|
|
|
Post by pbnative on Aug 27, 2015 14:07:00 GMT -8
I have to start with a Bronx cheer for laaztec for not pointing out in his intro that he was linking us to a subscription site. I got all excited to read the list and then . . . Ugh! As for why SDSU has been so disappointing for so long after such a great start historically capped by the meteoric rise of the program under Coryell and Gilbert, one only has to point to the administration. To be blunt, those people either did not give a dam or were simply incompetent. How else do you explain several of the coaching decisions starting with the firing of Claude Gilbert? Boise State has been just the opposite, with intelligent and consistent planning over time. As for the fan base, I think if you check the records you will find that we still had good attendance in '81 and '82. Both years we had winning records, 7-5 and 6-5. (Had there been as many bowl games as now exist, both those teams would have gone bowling.) If was the disastrous 1982 season under Scovil that started the downhill slide. Stolz won the WAC in '86 and then bombed. Lugie built tremendous offenses but forgot how to coach defense. Tollner looked good for a while (once again, in '95 and '96, SDSU was cheated by the smaller number of existing bowl games), then simply disappeared down the rabbit hole. Tom was a good coach but a bad D-I hire, though by that time the program was awful. Also, the schedules Tom's teams had to face were absolutely brutal. No need to remind everybody of more recent coaches. Maybe I should not be so hard on SDSU's administration. After all, their attitude toward atheletics appears to be pretty typical of the California State system. How else do you account for the long list of CSU schools, some with long football traditions (e.g., San Francisco State) that dropped football, plus all the newer schools that have never even considered competing in football. Now, compare that with the Middle West and Southwest, where football is king. Those guys have their priorities straight! Apparently, the state of Idaho is more like Texas and Florida in that regard than it is like California! SDSU will never amount to much unless and until there is somebody in the president's office who will accept nothing less than a FB program equal to or better than that of Boise State. What are the odds that we will see somebody like that leading the school? AzWm Considering Hershman has told Sterk to get SDSU into the Top 25, I'd say there is finally somebody like that leading the school NOW.
|
|
|
Post by HollywoodAztec on Aug 27, 2015 14:16:08 GMT -8
That is false. In fact Boise St and SDSU have very similar attendance numbers. The major difference is the Albertsons Stadium only holds 36,000. The other major difference is Boise's school president put huge investments and support in their football program, while SDSU's president almost got the entire athletic department axed. I will add that BSU started their winning tradition by playing extremely easy schedules and creating a winning mentality before incrementally increasing the difficulty of their schedules ... a path that spanned more than a decade that Aztec fans wouldn't be as accepting of ... Agree. BSU must've replicated Kansas State's blueprint. If we had copied K-State's strategy 15 years ago, instead of loading up on our OOC schedule, we'd probably be a regular resident in the top 25.
|
|
|
Post by myownwords on Aug 27, 2015 14:17:30 GMT -8
Only if the unnamed coach had a proven track record of mediocrity, and after many HC years, had zero suitors.You keep saying that but you have absolutely no clue if it's true or not. None.
BTW, what he did at NM wasn't mediocre. It was the best they've done in their history, or at least in 40+ years.
The BSU coaches that were hired had zero track records....and no other suiters...
The only proof I need is twofold: 1) Rocky is here 2) You, and those of "kindred spirit", would have moved "heaven and earth" to prove me wrong. In fact, recall that when Hoke left, Rocky was interviewed at UTSA (or Texas St?) for their HC job I think, and didn't get it. I don't mind "zero track record", IF a committee picks, or assists in picking, a HC. You find it comforting that Rocky was at New Mexico for 10 or 11 years, and gave them a spine for awhile. I do not. We just differ. He is not the person we need to make a difference. Hoke already did that. We need a BIGGER difference. And especially with---in my opinion--time running out.
|
|
|
Post by badfish on Aug 27, 2015 14:23:41 GMT -8
Fresno's numbers were crazy inflated last season due to Nebraska playing there and thousands of their fans buying season tickets to then sell the rest. However, they still have a pretty good fanbase and support.
|
|
|
Post by sdcoug on Aug 27, 2015 14:43:20 GMT -8
You keep saying that but you have absolutely no clue if it's true or not. None.
BTW, what he did at NM wasn't mediocre. It was the best they've done in their history, or at least in 40+ years.
The BSU coaches that were hired had zero track records....and no other suiters...
The only proof I need is twofold: 1) Rocky is here 2) You, and those of "kindred spirit", would have moved "heaven and earth" to prove me wrong. In fact, recall that when Hoke left, Rocky was interviewed at UTSA (or Texas St?) for their HC job I think, and didn't get it. I don't mind "zero track record", IF a committee picks, or assists in picking, a HC. You find it comforting that Rocky was at New Mexico for 10 or 11 years, and gave them a spine for awhile. I do not. We just differ. He is not the person we need to make a difference. Hoke already did that. We need a BIGGER difference. And especially with---in my opinion--time running out. First of all, if you think ANYONE would move heaven & earth for anything related to you on this board you're sorely mistaken. And even if & when anyone does prove you wrong, you simply ignore it & make up more stuff anyone. So why bother?
Second, when he interviewed at Texas St Hoke was still HC at SDSU. He hadn't been hired away, and wouldn't be for another week.
Texas St hired their HC on the same day Rocky was set to be named HC at SDSU. Actually, Long's agent announced Rocky would be named at SDSU before Texas St announced their hire, so one would expect negotiations had already been in place prior. How do you know he didn't remove his name from consideration at Texas St long before they made the hire, or blow them off immediately after his interview? The answer is, in case you were struggling, you don't. TS only lists 2 guys as even in the running - Franchione (sp?) & Brewster.
The only people who can prove Rocky has or hasn't been approached either has the initials RL or is someone he confided in. And I'd add, if you don't think several AD's in the country would take interest in a guy who went 8-5 & back to back bowl games at a place that's rarely ever won, or who went 9-4 with 5 bowl games in 6 years and their first bowl win in nearly 50 years you have no clue how AD's work.
Now go ahead & continue making stuff up, as usual.
|
|
|
Post by AzTex on Aug 27, 2015 14:49:37 GMT -8
Only if the unnamed coach had a proven track record of mediocrity, and after many HC years, had zero suitors.You keep saying that but you have absolutely no clue if it's true or not. None.
BTW, what he did at NM wasn't mediocre. It was the best they've done in their history, or at least in 40+ years.
The BSU coaches that were hired had zero track records....and no other suiters...
And the 3rd best percentage winning record ever at SDSU in 90+ years.
|
|
|
Post by aztecfan1 on Aug 27, 2015 15:02:16 GMT -8
The only proof I need is twofold: 1) Rocky is here 2) You, and those of "kindred spirit", would have moved "heaven and earth" to prove me wrong. In fact, recall that when Hoke left, Rocky was interviewed at UTSA (or Texas St?) for their HC job I think, and didn't get it. I don't mind "zero track record", IF a committee picks, or assists in picking, a HC. You find it comforting that Rocky was at New Mexico for 10 or 11 years, and gave them a spine for awhile. I do not. We just differ. He is not the person we need to make a difference. Hoke already did that. We need a BIGGER difference. And especially with---in my opinion--time running out. First of all, if you think ANYONE would move heaven & earth for anything related to you on this board you're sorely mistaken. And even if & when anyone does prove you wrong, you simply ignore it & make up more stuff anyone. So why bother?
Second, when he interviewed at Texas St Hoke was still HC at SDSU. He hadn't been hired away, and wouldn't be for another week.
Texas St hired their HC on the same day Rocky was set to be named HC at SDSU. Actually, Long's agent announced Rocky would be named at SDSU before Texas St announced their hire, so one would expect negotiations had already been in place prior. How do you know he didn't remove his name from consideration at Texas St long before they made the hire, or blow them off immediately after his interview? The answer is, in case you were struggling, you don't. TS only lists 2 guys as even in the running - Franchione (sp?) & Brewster.
The only people who can prove Rocky has or hasn't been approached either has the initials RL or is someone he confided in. And I'd add, if you don't think several AD's in the country would take interest in a guy who went 8-5 & back to back bowl games at a place that's rarely ever won, or who went 9-4 with 5 bowl games in 6 years and their first bowl win in nearly 50 years you have no clue how AD's work.
Now go ahead & continue making stuff up, as usual.
Great put down coug. Suggest again to you and others to just ignore all posts be MOI as this board is for those truly want SDSU to succeed and have invested emotions and resources toward that end. MOI is not like those who have
|
|
|
Post by rebar619 on Aug 27, 2015 15:01:58 GMT -8
That is false. In fact Boise St and SDSU have very similar attendance numbers. The major difference is the Albertsons Stadium only holds 36,000. The other major difference is Boise's school president put huge investments and support in their football program, while SDSU's president almost got the entire athletic department axed. I will add that BSU started their winning tradition by playing extremely easy schedules and creating a winning mentality before incrementally increasing the difficulty of their schedules ... a path that spanned more than a decade that Aztec fans wouldn't be as accepting of ... I dont think any of us would be accepting of a schedule that was any easier than the one we play right now. The SDSU FB schedule over the past few years has been the opposite of what you are describing. It has gone from strong to weak.
|
|
|
Post by rebar619 on Aug 27, 2015 15:08:42 GMT -8
Only if the unnamed coach had a proven track record of mediocrity, and after many HC years, had zero suitors.You keep saying that but you have absolutely no clue if it's true or not. None.
BTW, what he did at NM wasn't mediocre. It was the best they've done in their history, or at least in 40+ years.
The BSU coaches that were hired had zero track records....and no other suiters...
The only suitor we know Rocky had after Hoke left was to join Hoke at Big Blue. Perhaps he could see the writing on the wall, or was comfortable where he was at.
|
|
|
Post by myownwords on Aug 27, 2015 16:08:26 GMT -8
The only proof I need is twofold: 1) Rocky is here 2) You, and those of "kindred spirit", would have moved "heaven and earth" to prove me wrong. In fact, recall that when Hoke left, Rocky was interviewed at UTSA (or Texas St?) for their HC job I think, and didn't get it. I don't mind "zero track record", IF a committee picks, or assists in picking, a HC. You find it comforting that Rocky was at New Mexico for 10 or 11 years, and gave them a spine for awhile. I do not. We just differ. He is not the person we need to make a difference. Hoke already did that. We need a BIGGER difference. And especially with---in my opinion--time running out. First of all, if you think ANYONE would move heaven & earth for anything related to you on this board you're sorely mistaken. And even if & when anyone does prove you wrong, you simply ignore it & make up more stuff anyone. So why bother?
Second, when he interviewed at Texas St Hoke was still HC at SDSU. He hadn't been hired away, and wouldn't be for another week.
Texas St hired their HC on the same day Rocky was set to be named HC at SDSU. Actually, Long's agent announced Rocky would be named at SDSU before Texas St announced their hire, so one would expect negotiations had already been in place prior. How do you know he didn't remove his name from consideration at Texas St long before they made the hire, or blow them off immediately after his interview? The answer is, in case you were struggling, you don't. TS only lists 2 guys as even in the running - Franchione (sp?) & Brewster.
The only people who can prove Rocky has or hasn't been approached either has the initials RL or is someone he confided in. And I'd add, if you don't think several AD's in the country would take interest in a guy who went 8-5 & back to back bowl games at a place that's rarely ever won, or who went 9-4 with 5 bowl games in 6 years and their first bowl win in nearly 50 years you have no clue how AD's work.
Now go ahead & continue making stuff up, as usual.
That doesn't change my point at all. News leaks and other leaks of all kinds would have revealed any interest in Rocky Long as HC. He can't even catch a rumor. And you are quite wrong about corrections. I have no problem whatsoever admitting mistakes. If you have a link or some valid authority who "knows" that even one of the programs, higher than the MWC, has actually tried to poach coach Long, then I'll stop referring to it. Fair enough? Until then, I have to assume that my conclusion is correct. But just to be clear, I'm not asking you to do any homework on my behalf. You asked.
|
|
|
Post by fowl on Aug 27, 2015 16:10:57 GMT -8
I will add that BSU started their winning tradition by playing extremely easy schedules and creating a winning mentality before incrementally increasing the difficulty of their schedules ... a path that spanned more than a decade that Aztec fans wouldn't be as accepting of ... Agree. BSU must've replicated Kansas State's blueprint. If we had copied K-State's strategy 15 years ago, instead of loading up on our OOC schedule, we'd probably be a regular resident in the top 25. Ding ding ding we have a winner. Boise's schedules from 1998-2008 were some of the easiest in FBS every year. Including bowl games they played just 18 BCS schools during that 11 year span and went a whopping 5-13. They built their program on the backs of the New Mexico State's, Idaho's, San Jose State's, UTEP's, and Rice's of the college football world.
|
|
|
Post by sdcoug on Aug 27, 2015 17:02:23 GMT -8
First of all, if you think ANYONE would move heaven & earth for anything related to you on this board you're sorely mistaken. And even if & when anyone does prove you wrong, you simply ignore it & make up more stuff anyone. So why bother?
Second, when he interviewed at Texas St Hoke was still HC at SDSU. He hadn't been hired away, and wouldn't be for another week.
Texas St hired their HC on the same day Rocky was set to be named HC at SDSU. Actually, Long's agent announced Rocky would be named at SDSU before Texas St announced their hire, so one would expect negotiations had already been in place prior. How do you know he didn't remove his name from consideration at Texas St long before they made the hire, or blow them off immediately after his interview? The answer is, in case you were struggling, you don't. TS only lists 2 guys as even in the running - Franchione (sp?) & Brewster.
The only people who can prove Rocky has or hasn't been approached either has the initials RL or is someone he confided in. And I'd add, if you don't think several AD's in the country would take interest in a guy who went 8-5 & back to back bowl games at a place that's rarely ever won, or who went 9-4 with 5 bowl games in 6 years and their first bowl win in nearly 50 years you have no clue how AD's work.
Now go ahead & continue making stuff up, as usual.
That doesn't change my point at all. News leaks and other leaks of all kinds would have revealed any interest in Rocky Long as HC. He can't even catch a rumor. And you are quite wrong about corrections. I have no problem whatsoever admitting mistakes. If you have a link or some valid authority who "knows" that even one of the programs, higher than the MWC, has actually tried to poach coach Long, then I'll stop referring to it. Fair enough? Until then, I have to assume that my conclusion is correct. But just to be clear, I'm not asking you to do any homework on my behalf. You asked. You do realize that only a fraction of those who get approached for a job actually gets reported, right? The only one's which do are those where the coach actually is interested & interviews for the position; they want to renegotiate & use being approached as a bargaining chip; or they're so insecure they leak it that School X approached them to garner more attention. So you're going to "ass ume" that if Rocky didn't fall into 1 of those categories you're conclusion is correct? Interesting. Assuming something that may never have happened.
It could simply be a) Rocky was happy at his alma mater & really wanted them to succeed, so turned down immediately anyone expressing interest; and b) he's happy at SDSU and, as he's stated often, just loves hanging out in OB & flying under the radar. Personally, I admire that.
You on the other hand like "leakers" and those seeking to move up rather than stay loyal. Understood.
|
|