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Post by SDSU-Alum2003 on Jul 9, 2015 15:53:03 GMT -8
Interesting article... "The only reason expansion makes financial sense is if the Big 12 is going to do a network. And if it were to expand, the only states that would make sense to expand to are states that don't presently have a Big 12 team. There are five real expansion targets that the Big 12 should consider as part of its network: Cincinnati, Central Florida or South Florida, BYU and Memphis. (Boise State makes no sense because the money isn't substantial. Connecticut might, but it's a long way away geographically. No existing school will leave one of the four major conferences for the Big 12. There just aren't teams that make sense to add after 14 members)." www.foxsports.com/college-football/outkick-the-coverage/the-big-12-should-go-to-14-teams-070115
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Post by myownwords on Jul 9, 2015 16:16:27 GMT -8
Interesting article... "The only reason expansion makes financial sense is if the Big 12 is going to do a network. And if it were to expand, the only states that would make sense to expand to are states that don't presently have a Big 12 team. There are five real expansion targets that the Big 12 should consider as part of its network: Cincinnati, Central Florida or South Florida, BYU and Memphis. (Boise State makes no sense because the money isn't substantial. Connecticut might, but it's a long way away geographically. No existing school will leave one of the four major conferences for the Big 12. There just aren't teams that make sense to add after 14 members)." www.foxsports.com/college-football/outkick-the-coverage/the-big-12-should-go-to-14-teams-070115Once again, another example of the SDSU invisibility factor. Hoke made a statement, then left. Rocky and Sterky ate it up, then threw up on it.
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Post by 94sdsu on Jul 9, 2015 16:25:32 GMT -8
I don't get why SDSU gets zero consideration. The only reason I can think of is that we'd be another far flung outlier school, much like UWV is now.
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Post by standiego on Jul 9, 2015 16:52:44 GMT -8
One thing it seems they forget to mention is do the fans in those areas really prefer to watch those schools and their opponents . Buckeyes own Ohio , BIG also owns most of the states that have schools in the BIG and fans that hate that teams . Do they think more fans would watch Cincy vs Kansas or Michigan vs Penn State .... ? In Florida do fans want to watch FSU , Gators , Miami and teams they play (SEC and ACC ) or watch SFU or CFU play ISU or KSU .... .? I do think state of Florida is a good place to recruit . SDSU does have a good group of fans ,that do watch the Aztecs and would prefer watching teams from B12 . Would we draw fans from OC , Inland Empire maybe if B12 comes here to CA to recruit. those guys .
Realize S and H are not screamers some would like, with their hand raised pick me, but do believe they have been doing the charting of TV viewers, plus working AD's from B12 , every time they have come for the Holiday Bowl . Kansas comes here for MBB and Sterk will see UWV ,in the Vegas T. B12 lost Holiday Bowl , would guess they could get the P Bowl to make them an offer , especially with SDSU as a member .
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Post by AztecWilliam on Jul 9, 2015 20:03:15 GMT -8
I don't get why SDSU gets zero consideration. The only reason I can think of is that we'd be another far flung outlier school, much like UWV is now. Ya think so? Just maybe? Geez, let's all look at a map of the good old U.S.A. and remind ourselves just how far from the Heartland we are. This business of opening a West Coast beachhead for the Big-12 sounds great to us. But it's pretty clear that SDSU is NOT going to join the Big-12. I wish it weren't so, but I just can't see it. We are way too far from the center of the country and, let's admit it, not strong enough athletically to be of interest. We aren't chopped liver, but we are also not filet mignon, either. AzWm
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Post by AztecBill on Jul 9, 2015 20:54:56 GMT -8
I don't get why SDSU gets zero consideration. The only reason I can think of is that we'd be another far flung outlier school, much like UWV is now. Ya think so? Just maybe? Geez, let's all look at a map of the good old U.S.A. and remind ourselves just how far from the Heartland we are. This business of opening a West Coast beachhead for the Big-12 sounds great to us. But it's pretty clear that SDSU is NOT going to join the Big-12. I wish it weren't so, but I just can't see it. We are way too far from the center of the country and, let's admit it, not strong enough athletically to be of interest. We aren't chopped liver, but we are also not filet mignon, either. AzWm What does an extra hour on a plane cost? I bet Fox Sports San Diego would love getting all the rights to local telecasts of basketball games that aren't picked up nationally. We could also play games starting at 7:00 PM, which fills a time slot that no other B12 team would.
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Post by SDSU-Alum2003 on Jul 9, 2015 21:32:50 GMT -8
I don't get why SDSU gets zero consideration. The only reason I can think of is that we'd be another far flung outlier school, much like UWV is now. The media doesn't seem to give SDSU much consideration. We don't really know what kind of consideration SDSU is receiving behind closed doors from BIG XII University Presidents/Athletic Directors and TV executives; the people who will ultimately make the decisions. The media mentions UCF fairly frequently. SDSU and UCF have very similar profiles. School - DMA Rank - Recruiting Rank - US News Rank UCF - DMA #18 - RR #1 - USNR #173 SDSU - DMA #28 - RR #3 - USNR #149 Air Distance / Flight Time from San Diego to Austin: 1162 miles / 2 hrs 42 min Air Distance / Flight Time from Orlando to Austin: 993 miles / 2 hrs 23 minutes Both are large public Universities with sizeable alumni bases (SDSU's alumni is larger) located in destination cities with pleasant year round climate. UCF has a better DMA and a slightly better recruiting rank. However, UCF has to primarily compete with both the ACC (primarily Florida State but also Miami) and the SEC (Florida) for TV ratings and recruits. SDSU only has to primarily compete with the PAC 12 (primarily USC/UCLA but also Stanford/Cal) for TV ratings and recruits. SDSU has significantly better academics as measured by U.S. World News. UCF is located closer to the University of Texas than SDSU. However, SDSU only requires an additional 19 minutes of flight time to fly to Austin. SDSU has a better overall athletic program than UCF (both baseball programs are comparable) and a significantly better basketball program. However, UCF has had some recent success in football Both SDSU and UCF have comparable quality athletic facilities. However, UCF does possess a significant advantage with its 45,000 seat on campus football stadium. Based on this data SDSU should be in the conversation as an expansion candidate (and likely are with the powers that be). If the BIG XII expands by 4 teams and starts a BIG XII network they would be wise to add these 4 teams: 1. BYU - Quality overall program with a national following 2. UCF - Large public university that gives the BIG XII a foothold in the large Florida TV & recruiting markets 3. Cincinnati - Gives West Virginia a natural rival and travel partner while also allowing the BIG XII to gain a foothold in the Ohio TV & recruiting markets; also a solid basketball program 4. SDSU - Large public university wiith a solid basketball program and overall athletics; gives BYU a natural rival and travel partner while also allowing the BIG XII to gain a foothold in the large Southern California TV & recruiting markets These teams would more than double the current TV viewership of the BIG XII while also gaining a foothold in the fertile recruiting states of Florida, California and Ohio. Furthermore, this would allow for the first National P5 conference. TV networks would have a wide variety of programming to showcase in all 4 time zones from coast to coast. This kind of conference set-up would be very lucrative and solidify the BIG XII conference.
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Post by Simsonic on Jul 9, 2015 22:57:00 GMT -8
C'mon guys. The only realistic choice for us is to become so attractive that we become a member of the PAC 13. And that is a pipe dream.
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Post by tttrojan4life on Jul 10, 2015 1:08:31 GMT -8
I don't buy Cinn. to the B12. Simply put, it's Buckeye Country. Cinn. is not really into their own team and they will never compete with tOSU, PSU, Mich., ND for recruits or viewers. I think if the B12 wanted any of these teams, it would have already happened.
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Post by SDSU-Alum2003 on Jul 10, 2015 4:04:37 GMT -8
C'mon guys. The only realistic choice for us is to become so attractive that we become a member of the PAC 13. And that is a pipe dream. Of course I would prefer to be a member of the PAC 12. However, IMO one of the only ways that happens is in the scenario above. If the BIG XII offers SDSU membership the PAC 12 may wish to protect their TV and recruiting markets. They may decide it is better to only compete for TV & recruits with SDSU as a conference-mate vs. competing against SDSU and the other 13 members of the BIG XII.
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Post by hoobs on Jul 10, 2015 4:37:54 GMT -8
C'mon guys. The only realistic choice for us is to become so attractive that we become a member of the PAC 13. And that is a pipe dream. Of course I would prefer to be a member of the PAC 12. However, IMO one of the only ways that happens is in the scenario above. If the BIG XII offers SDSU membership the PAC 12 may wish to protect their TV and recruiting markets. They may decide it is better to only compete for TV & recruits with SDSU as a conference-mate vs. competing against SDSU and the other 13 members of the BIG XII. I have long believed that's exactly the only very small chance SDSU would ever have to get the Pac's attention... being courted by the Big12.
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Post by myownwords on Jul 10, 2015 5:00:26 GMT -8
I don't get why SDSU gets zero consideration. The only reason I can think of is that we'd be another far flung outlier school, much like UWV is now. The media doesn't seem to give SDSU much consideration. We don't really know what kind of consideration SDSU is receiving behind closed doors from BIG XII University Presidents/Athletic Directors and TV executives; the people who will ultimately make the decisions. The media mentions UCF fairly frequently. SDSU and UCF have very similar profiles. School - DMA Rank - Recruiting Rank - US News Rank UCF - DMA #18 - RR #1 - USNR #173 SDSU - DMA #28 - RR #3 - USNR #149 Air Distance / Flight Time from San Diego to Austin: 1162 miles / 2 hrs 42 min Air Distance / Flight Time from Orlando to Austin: 993 miles / 2 hrs 23 minutes Both are large public Universities with sizeable alumni bases (SDSU's alumni is larger) located in destination cities with pleasant year round climate. UCF has a better DMA and a slightly better recruiting rank. However, UCF has to primarily compete with both the ACC (primarily Florida State but also Miami) and the SEC (Florida) for TV ratings and recruits. SDSU only has to primarily compete with the PAC 12 (primarily USC/UCLA but also Stanford/Cal) for TV ratings and recruits. SDSU has significantly better academics as measured by U.S. World News. UCF is located closer to the University of Texas than SDSU. However, SDSU only requires an additional 19 minutes of flight time to fly to Austin. SDSU has a better overall athletic program than UCF (both baseball programs are comparable) and a significantly better basketball program. However, UCF has had some recent success in football Both SDSU and UCF have comparable quality athletic facilities. However, UCF does possess a significant advantage with its 45,000 seat on campus football stadium. Based on this data SDSU should be in the conversation as an expansion candidate (and likely are with the powers that be). If the BIG XII expands by 4 teams and starts a BIG XII network they would be wise to add these 4 teams: 1. BYU - Quality overall program with a national following 2. UCF - Large public university that gives the BIG XII a foothold in the large Florida TV & recruiting markets 3. Cincinnati - Gives West Virginia a natural rival and travel partner while also allowing the BIG XII to gain a foothold in the Ohio TV & recruiting markets; also a solid basketball program 4. SDSU - Large public university wiith a solid basketball program and overall athletics; gives BYU a natural rival and travel partner while also allowing the BIG XII to gain a foothold in the large Southern California TV & recruiting markets These teams would more than double the current TV viewership of the BIG XII while also gaining a foothold in the fertile recruiting states of Florida, California and Ohio. Furthermore, this would allow for the first National P5 conference. TV networks would have a wide variety of programming to showcase in all 4 time zones from coast to coast. This kind of conference set-up would be very lucrative and solidify the BIG XII conference.
SDSU-Alum2003, great homework here and, I think, compelling. The one ingredient that you left out---and is somewhat intangible--is confidence. They've had 5 years to see if our football program could gain relevance nationally, and it has not. Rocky and our AD apparently force them to conclude that our program has not, and will not, produce on the field, as the other teams listed. They do not want a program lacking inspiration, enthusiasm, potential, and no fans, led by hapless and hopeless people.
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Post by alamobruin on Jul 10, 2015 5:07:28 GMT -8
I don't buy Cinn. to the B12. Simply put, it's Buckeye Country. Cinn. is not really into their own team and they will never compete with tOSU, PSU, Mich., ND for recruits or viewers. I think if the B12 wanted any of these teams, it would have already happened. Actually, the Cincy metro area is overwhelmingly supportive of UC. The largest majority of UC alumni live in the Cincy metro area, and the TV ratings locally favor UC.
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Post by fanhood on Jul 10, 2015 5:26:39 GMT -8
Interesting article... "The only reason expansion makes financial sense is if the Big 12 is going to do a network. And if it were to expand, the only states that would make sense to expand to are states that don't presently have a Big 12 team. There are five real expansion targets that the Big 12 should consider as part of its network: Cincinnati, Central Florida or South Florida, BYU and Memphis. (Boise State makes no sense because the money isn't substantial. Connecticut might, but it's a long way away geographically. No existing school will leave one of the four major conferences for the Big 12. There just aren't teams that make sense to add after 14 members)." www.foxsports.com/college-football/outkick-the-coverage/the-big-12-should-go-to-14-teams-070115Once again, another example of the SDSU invisibility factor. Hoke made a statement, then left. Rocky and Sterky ate it up, then threw up on it. Ok, so you blame Rocky for not enough wins? I don't agree, but that statement is not completely illogical. However, how in the world do you blame Sterk?
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Post by alamobruin on Jul 10, 2015 6:07:55 GMT -8
..... Air Distance / Flight Time from San Diego to Austin: 1162 miles / 2 hrs 42 min Air Distance / Flight Time from Orlando to Austin: 993 miles / 2 hrs 23 min........
This is a trap that many people fall into when talking about travel expenses and the like in B12 expansion. Remember, that with a 12 or 14-team B12, Texas would not be in the same division with both UCF and SDSU. For purposes of protecting attractive rivalries, any divisional set-up would place Texas, Texas Tech, Baylor, TCU, Oklahoma and Oklahoma State in the same division; with Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State and West Virginia in the other division. This a problem for SDSU when it comes to a 12 or 14-team B12. There is only one slot in a western division at 14 teams, and none for 12 teams.
You would somehow have to convince the B12 to align with OU and OSU in the east, protect the OU-UT rivalry as one of the permanent cross-divisional games, AND if there is only an expansion to 12 teams, that WVU's isolation is not an issue. The better option is to lobby for the OU/OSU eastern placement in a 14-team league, which would make Cincy the most appropriate addition to appease WVU. That leaves the B12 with the task of finding 3 western members, which increases SDSU's attractiveness exponentially. The problem with that is finding a third western team with the chops to compete favorably against eastern targets like UCF, Memphis, ECU and USF.
Finally, the very best option (and probably the most remote) is to convince the B12 to go ahead and expand to 16 members. This would allow OU/OSU to remain in the west, and allow for a 4-team eastern expansion and a choice between Cincy, UCF, USF, Memphis, Tulane, ECU and Houston (Tulane and Houston would be outliers due to their natural identification with the existing Texas schools). Such an expansion would require that the 6 additions negotiate with the understanding of a longer phase-in of their CFP revenue shares.
Regardless of any expansion scenario, for SDSU to have any chance of receiving a P5 invitation, they must force the hands of the only 2 conferences for which they have any chance of inclusion, the B12 and the P12. To do that, they are going to have to IMMEDIATELY rectify the stadium situation. That means moving dirt on a new on-campus facility that seats 45-50K (with an expandable design). This would give SDSU two shots at P5 membership. First it would outstrip most of the eastern candidates to create a westward movement in a 4-team expansion of the B12, and secondly, it would give the P12 its very best target under the pressure to expand to 14 that a wider B12 footprint will bring about. The P12 already lags behind the B12 in revenues at it stands, and B12 expansion will make that squeeze even more uncomfortable. A 16-team B12 would provide the most significant content for a B12 TV Network, and allow for the most room in providing Texas enough compensation to eliminate the LHN.
Ultimately, an expansion must be dictated by stability. The new additions must insist on a strong GOR to lock OU and UT into the B12, as they hold the keys to the kingdom. No matter how strong Baylor and TCU are, they have limited TV clout and cannot carry a P5 conference well enough to drive revenues. If OU and UT decide to go elsewhere, they will likely bleed off other programs like Texas Tech and Oklahoma State.
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Post by myownwords on Jul 10, 2015 6:22:59 GMT -8
Once again, another example of the SDSU invisibility factor. Hoke made a statement, then left. Rocky and Sterky ate it up, then threw up on it. Ok, so you blame Rocky for not enough wins? I don't agree, but that statement is not completely illogical. However, how in the world do you blame Sterk? Sterk slid Rocky under the rug and into the position. Other than his vacuous "...Top 25" silliness, he's not pushed for, nor improved our opportunities, while we sink in the public eye.
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Post by AccessBowlTime on Jul 10, 2015 7:43:27 GMT -8
I don't get why SDSU gets zero consideration. The only reason I can think of is that we'd be another far flung outlier school, much like UWV is now. That's not the only reason but it's definitely A reason. It might help if UNLV's football program transformed from miserable to good in the next 7-8 years. What would also help is if both of us built a new stadium. But You may say I'm just a dreamer . . .
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Post by AccessBowlTime on Jul 10, 2015 7:50:22 GMT -8
The media doesn't seem to give SDSU much consideration. We don't really know what kind of consideration SDSU is receiving behind closed doors from BIG XII University Presidents/Athletic Directors and TV executives; the people who will ultimately make the decisions. The media mentions UCF fairly frequently. SDSU and UCF have very similar profiles. School - DMA Rank - Recruiting Rank - US News Rank UCF - DMA #18 - RR #1 - USNR #173 SDSU - DMA #28 - RR #3 - USNR #149 Air Distance / Flight Time from San Diego to Austin: 1162 miles / 2 hrs 42 min Air Distance / Flight Time from Orlando to Austin: 993 miles / 2 hrs 23 minutes Both are large public Universities with sizeable alumni bases (SDSU's alumni is larger) located in destination cities with pleasant year round climate. UCF has a better DMA and a slightly better recruiting rank. However, UCF has to primarily compete with both the ACC (primarily Florida State but also Miami) and the SEC (Florida) for TV ratings and recruits. SDSU only has to primarily compete with the PAC 12 (primarily USC/UCLA but also Stanford/Cal) for TV ratings and recruits. SDSU has significantly better academics as measured by U.S. World News. UCF is located closer to the University of Texas than SDSU. However, SDSU only requires an additional 19 minutes of flight time to fly to Austin. SDSU has a better overall athletic program than UCF (both baseball programs are comparable) and a significantly better basketball program. However, UCF has had some recent success in football Both SDSU and UCF have comparable quality athletic facilities. However, UCF does possess a significant advantage with its 45,000 seat on campus football stadium. Based on this data SDSU should be in the conversation as an expansion candidate (and likely are with the powers that be). If the BIG XII expands by 4 teams and starts a BIG XII network they would be wise to add these 4 teams: 1. BYU - Quality overall program with a national following 2. UCF - Large public university that gives the BIG XII a foothold in the large Florida TV & recruiting markets 3. Cincinnati - Gives West Virginia a natural rival and travel partner while also allowing the BIG XII to gain a foothold in the Ohio TV & recruiting markets; also a solid basketball program 4. SDSU - Large public university wiith a solid basketball program and overall athletics; gives BYU a natural rival and travel partner while also allowing the BIG XII to gain a foothold in the large Southern California TV & recruiting markets These teams would more than double the current TV viewership of the BIG XII while also gaining a foothold in the fertile recruiting states of Florida, California and Ohio. Furthermore, this would allow for the first National P5 conference. TV networks would have a wide variety of programming to showcase in all 4 time zones from coast to coast. This kind of conference set-up would be very lucrative and solidify the BIG XII conference.
SDSU-Alum2003, great homework here and, I think, compelling. The one ingredient that you left out---and is somewhat intangible--is confidence. They've had 5 years to see if our football program could gain relevance nationally, and it has not. Rocky and our AD apparently force them to conclude that our program has not, and will not, produce on the field, as the other teams listed. They do not want a program lacking inspiration, enthusiasm, potential, and no fans, led by hapless and hopeless people.
Folks wonder why the media ignores us? Hello!!! Not even one victory over a good P5 school. Not even during the regular season much less in a bowl game. UCF? They beat #6 Baylor in the Fiesta Bowl in 2013. See my moniker. THAT'S what matters. If we get that done, which we are fully capable of, yet we're still ignored, THEN it will be time to give up.
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Post by Old School on Jul 10, 2015 8:48:35 GMT -8
Sigh.
Oldie Out
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Post by hoobs on Jul 10, 2015 8:50:09 GMT -8
My vision of a 14-team Big12:
West Baylor Texas Texas Tech TCU BYU UNLV SDSU
East Iowa State Oklahoma State Oklahoma Kansas Kansas State West Virginia Cincinnati
*Texas vs Oklahoma as a "protected rivalry" in football scheduling
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