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Post by aztec70 on Oct 17, 2010 7:32:33 GMT -8
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Post by aztecwin on Oct 17, 2010 8:15:44 GMT -8
I am glad for Craft! He just could not run a D1 program without any support or money. He might not have been able to do it with that support and money, but never had the chance.
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Post by johneaztec on Oct 17, 2010 9:20:26 GMT -8
I am glad for Craft! He just could not run a D1 program without any support or money. He might not have been able to do it with that support and money, but never had the chance. You're right. He did not have the support or money. I do think he would have been successful given that support. |
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Post by tuff on Oct 18, 2010 13:43:48 GMT -8
So!!
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Post by zurac315 on Oct 18, 2010 15:00:35 GMT -8
So what.  |
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Post by The Great Aztec Joe on Oct 18, 2010 19:35:24 GMT -8
I am glad for Craft! He just could not run a D1 program without any support or money. He might not have been able to do it with that support and money, but never had the chance. You're right. He did not have the support or money. I do think he would have been successful given that support. When you are fired when your first recruiting class are Redshirt Sophomores and those Sophomores beat BYU and Utah in a season when both of them went to bowl games, YOU KNOW THAT YOU ARE DEALING WITH AN INSANE ATHLETIC DIRECTOR. Schemmel felt that Tom should have been playing Tollner's Juniors and Seniors (who were the players he should have been playing, except they were not available to play. They were not available because they were useless.) Tollner's last three recruiting classes were worthless. Craft had to bring in five JC linemen to try to fill in the blanks in the two deep. That was probably the most Gawd Awful situation a man could have ever been hired to fill. That first recruiting class of Tom Craft when on to place more people in the Pros than any Aztec recruiting class in school history. With those kids playing as sophomores, Tom was fired. Unbelievable stupidity! Just totally unbelievable! But what the hell, That assured that San Diego State would go down in history as having done the three stupidest things ever in the history of college football. The firing of Gilbert in the middle of his transition from JC recruiting to high school recruits and the firing of Scovil when the Athletic Director has an out of control PMS rage. How can one school have such an insane reputation? |
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Post by aztec70 on Oct 18, 2010 19:59:55 GMT -8
The AD was new to the job. All new big bosses want to make a hire that that shows there is a new sheriff in town. That means someone needs to be fired. Steve Fisher? No, his team is doing too well. Tony Gwynn? Get real. That left Tom Craft. Tom Craft left.
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Post by johneaztec on Oct 18, 2010 20:05:54 GMT -8
You're right. He did not have the support or money. I do think he would have been successful given that support. When you are fired when your first recruiting class are Redshirt Sophomores and those Sophomores beat BYU and Utah in a season when both of them went to bowl games, YOU KNOW THAT YOU ARE DEALING WITH AN INSANE ATHLETIC DIRECTOR. Schemmel felt that Tom should have been playing Tollner's Juniors and Seniors (who were the players he should have been playing, except they were not available to play. They were not available because they were useless.) Tollner's last three recruiting classes were worthless. Craft had to bring in five JC linemen to try to fill in the blanks in the two deep. That was probably the most Gawd Awful situation a man could have ever been hired to fill. That first recruiting class of Tom Craft when on to place more people in the Pros than any Aztec recruiting class in school history. With those kids playing as sophomores, Tom was fired. Unbelievable stupidity! Just totally unbelievable! But what the hell, That assured that San Diego State would go down in history as having done the three stupidest things ever in the history of college football. The firing of Gilbert in the middle of his transition from JC recruiting to high school recruits and the firing of Scovil when the Athletic Director has an out of control PMS rage. How can one school have such an insane reputation? You're right. Tom had it especially tough on him because he had ZERO resources, but was expected to win RIGHT FRIGGIN NOW. The things he accomplished with ZERO support, and a DOWN program, were commendable. I think Schemmy wanted his own guy in there, and with what they had coming back in Long's first year, Schemmy obviously felt he had pulled off a coup and was going to look great after the hire of Long. Everybody should go back and look at the roster Long inherited, it was VERY good. I think Schemmy felt that it was an ideal situation because of the talent that was coming back and that ANYBODY, including Long, would obviously win with that talent that was coming back and as a result, Schemmy would look like a hero. But noooooooo, it didn't happen. I think Long made a mistake by trying to go Midwest his first year, for whatever reason. It just backfired. I'll never understand why they just tried to pound the ball that year and go Midwest on us. Maybe Long and company felt they were high and mighty, coming from the Midwest and felt the Midwest offense would excell. WRONG!!! And it made Craft look worse because of it, even when he had nothing to do with it. |
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Post by goaztecs on Oct 19, 2010 15:39:11 GMT -8
And Craft had a brutal schedule as well and took over a squad in 02 that had lost 44 players from the season before for various reasons. He was in a tough position to say the least. Our win this year over AFA was the program's first quality win since we beat Utah in 05 under Craft.
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Post by joshjones1 on Oct 19, 2010 16:31:07 GMT -8
Craft did some good things here. Yes, he had to take risks, yadda, yadda. As we found out a couple of years after he got fired, it was the RIGHT call. Our APR was headed to the toilet, and the attrition rate was shocking. Nobody can DISPUTE these numbers below, his recruiting classes that were so heralded were a FRAUD: www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20070206/news_1s6azfoot.htmlCraft's first three recruiting classes can be divided into three parts: 30 who fell off the map, 31 who started at least five games and 20 who started fewer than five games or none at all (two players started five games before leaving prematurely).
Fifteen of the 31 players who have started at least five games came from SDSU's 2003 class, a group that was heralded as easily the best recruiting class in the Mountain West Conference by recruiting experts in February 2003.
That group included the only first-team all-MWC players from those three classes: running back Lynell Hamilton and defensive end Antwan Applewhite.
The benchmark for a successful recruiting class is about 12 players who turn out to be regular starters.
“If you can get 15 to 20 starters out of a class, you've done an amazing job,” said Jeremy Crabtree, recruiting analyst for Rivals.com. Thirty of those 79 recruits didn't qualify for admission, were kicked off the team or prematurely dropped off the roster for academic or personal reasons. That's a loss of more than one full recruiting class out of three – an alarming rate of attrition that continues to contribute to the challenges facing a team without a bowl berth since 1998. APR: www.signonsandiego.com/sports/aztecs/20080327-9999-1s27azfoot.html |
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Post by johneaztec on Oct 19, 2010 17:54:50 GMT -8
Craft did some good things here. Yes, he had to take risks, yadda, yadda. As we found out a couple of years after he got fired, it was the RIGHT call. Our APR was headed to the toilet, and the attrition rate was shocking. Nobody can DISPUTE these numbers below, his recruiting classes that were so heralded were a FRAUD: www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20070206/news_1s6azfoot.htmlCraft's first three recruiting classes can be divided into three parts: 30 who fell off the map, 31 who started at least five games and 20 who started fewer than five games or none at all (two players started five games before leaving prematurely).
Fifteen of the 31 players who have started at least five games came from SDSU's 2003 class, a group that was heralded as easily the best recruiting class in the Mountain West Conference by recruiting experts in February 2003.
That group included the only first-team all-MWC players from those three classes: running back Lynell Hamilton and defensive end Antwan Applewhite.
The benchmark for a successful recruiting class is about 12 players who turn out to be regular starters.
“If you can get 15 to 20 starters out of a class, you've done an amazing job,” said Jeremy Crabtree, recruiting analyst for Rivals.com. Thirty of those 79 recruits didn't qualify for admission, were kicked off the team or prematurely dropped off the roster for academic or personal reasons. That's a loss of more than one full recruiting class out of three – an alarming rate of attrition that continues to contribute to the challenges facing a team without a bowl berth since 1998. APR: www.signonsandiego.com/sports/aztecs/20080327-9999-1s27azfoot.html Check out the roster he left Long in Long's first year. It was VERY good. Long wasn't hurting there. |
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Post by joshjones1 on Oct 19, 2010 18:31:32 GMT -8
Craft did some good things here. Yes, he had to take risks, yadda, yadda. As we found out a couple of years after he got fired, it was the RIGHT call. Our APR was headed to the toilet, and the attrition rate was shocking. Nobody can DISPUTE these numbers below, his recruiting classes that were so heralded were a FRAUD: www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20070206/news_1s6azfoot.htmlCraft's first three recruiting classes can be divided into three parts: 30 who fell off the map, 31 who started at least five games and 20 who started fewer than five games or none at all (two players started five games before leaving prematurely).
Fifteen of the 31 players who have started at least five games came from SDSU's 2003 class, a group that was heralded as easily the best recruiting class in the Mountain West Conference by recruiting experts in February 2003.
That group included the only first-team all-MWC players from those three classes: running back Lynell Hamilton and defensive end Antwan Applewhite.
The benchmark for a successful recruiting class is about 12 players who turn out to be regular starters.
“If you can get 15 to 20 starters out of a class, you've done an amazing job,” said Jeremy Crabtree, recruiting analyst for Rivals.com. Thirty of those 79 recruits didn't qualify for admission, were kicked off the team or prematurely dropped off the roster for academic or personal reasons. That's a loss of more than one full recruiting class out of three – an alarming rate of attrition that continues to contribute to the challenges facing a team without a bowl berth since 1998. APR: www.signonsandiego.com/sports/aztecs/20080327-9999-1s27azfoot.html Check out the roster he left Long in Long's first year. It was VERY good. Long wasn't hurting there. I agree, actually. It was pretty decent. The long term effects of his "classes" were felt though. I think highly of Tom Craft as a coach and feel he did what he could. Those who think his recruiting classes were "stellar" are kidding themselves. Many of his most effecive players......Tolver, Osgood, the Dark side D.....were Tollner guys. |
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Post by johneaztec on Oct 19, 2010 19:27:45 GMT -8
Check out the roster he left Long in Long's first year. It was VERY good. Long wasn't hurting there. I agree, actually. It was pretty decent. The long term effects of his "classes" were felt though. I think highly of Tom Craft as a coach and feel he did what he could. Those who think his recruiting classes were "stellar" are kidding themselves. Many of his most effecive players......Tolver, Osgood, the Dark side D.....were Tollner guys. I agree that Tollner left over some very effective players. You have to admit though, that Craft had his fair share of VERY effective players as well. As a matter of fact, most of those effective players all had shots in the NFL, and some are still there. So I disagree with you when you state that MOST of his effective players were Tollners guys. Quite the contrary, perhaps. |
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Post by joshjones1 on Oct 19, 2010 22:21:36 GMT -8
I agree, actually. It was pretty decent. The long term effects of his "classes" were felt though. I think highly of Tom Craft as a coach and feel he did what he could. Those who think his recruiting classes were "stellar" are kidding themselves. Many of his most effecive players......Tolver, Osgood, the Dark side D.....were Tollner guys. I agree that Tollner left over some very effective players. You have to admit though, that Craft had his fair share of VERY effective players as well. As a matter of fact, most of those effective players all had shots in the NFL, and some are still there. So I disagree with you when you state that MOST of his effective players were Tollners guys. Quite the contrary, perhaps. I said "many of"...his most effective players. |
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Post by Steve Aztec on Oct 20, 2010 2:36:01 GMT -8
When you are fired when your first recruiting class are Redshirt Sophomores and those Sophomores beat BYU and Utah in a season when both of them went to bowl games, YOU KNOW THAT YOU ARE DEALING WITH AN INSANE ATHLETIC DIRECTOR. Schemmel felt that Tom should have been playing Tollner's Juniors and Seniors (who were the players he should have been playing, except they were not available to play. They were not available because they were useless.) Tollner's last three recruiting classes were worthless. Craft had to bring in five JC linemen to try to fill in the blanks in the two deep. That was probably the most Gawd Awful situation a man could have ever been hired to fill. That first recruiting class of Tom Craft when on to place more people in the Pros than any Aztec recruiting class in school history. With those kids playing as sophomores, Tom was fired. Unbelievable stupidity! Just totally unbelievable! But what the hell, That assured that San Diego State would go down in history as having done the three stupidest things ever in the history of college football. The firing of Gilbert in the middle of his transition from JC recruiting to high school recruits and the firing of Scovil when the Athletic Director has an out of control PMS rage. How can one school have such an insane reputation? You're right. Tom had it especially tough on him because he had ZERO resources, but was expected to win RIGHT FRIGGIN NOW. The things he accomplished with ZERO support, and a DOWN program, were commendable. I think Schemmy wanted his own guy in there, and with what they had coming back in Long's first year, Schemmy obviously felt he had pulled off a coup and was going to look great after the hire of Long. Everybody should go back and look at the roster Long inherited, it was VERY good. I think Schemmy felt that it was an ideal situation because of the talent that was coming back and that ANYBODY, including Long, would obviously win with that talent that was coming back and as a result, Schemmy would look like a hero. But noooooooo, it didn't happen. I think Long made a mistake by trying to go Midwest his first year, for whatever reason. It just backfired. I'll never understand why they just tried to pound the ball that year and go Midwest on us. Maybe Long and company felt they were high and mighty, coming from the Midwest and felt the Midwest offense would excell. WRONG!!! And it made Craft look worse because of it, even when he had nothing to do with it. This is a pretty damn good post John.........And pretty much right on the money. |
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Post by The Great Aztec Joe on Oct 20, 2010 7:27:20 GMT -8
Not only did Schemmel fug up, but in my humble opinion he was a creep who crawled out from the depths of hell. He fired Tom a week before the Hawaii game. If Tom won that game, he would have been .500 for the season after beating both Bowl Bound BYU and Utah in the same season. He achieved this miracle with his Freshmen and Sophomores and JC transfers. That was easily one of the greatest achievement in the history of college coaching.
Schemmel wanted to make a name for himself, but knew absolutely nothing about football. His constant statement that there was a Craft recruiting class that was totally devoid of Offensive Linemen was proof positive. I wrote him and explained the situation. It was not devoid of linemen, because in that class he brought in Pino, Schmidt, Nelson and one other whose name escapes me now. They were JC linemen because there was only one decent Division One caliber lineman in the last three recruiting classes of Tollner (Kracilik, the cry baby). Tom had to fill that tremendous gap and did so the only way possible by bringing in JC linemen, even though most of them usually do not pan out.
When Schemmel fired Tom before the Hawaii game he did so to deliberately demoralize the team. He succeeded. The lesson that they learned was that it does not matter how great you play as a Freshmen and Sophomore dominated team, grossly ethically inept athletic directors can destroy your team. Schemmel did that in spades.
So that Shithead goes out and brings Long in. Long, the idiot who destroyed Oklahoma's tremendously talented offense the one season he was OC, was told to find work elsewhere and pointed towards San Diego State because we had an idiot athletic director who only understood volleyball and had no understanding about football. Our resident idiot hired him without even going to the Oklahoma fan sites to see what they though of him. The fans hated Long and were calling for his head. I reported that on the Aztec forum at the time when word leaked out that Long was being interviewed. I even linked to the fan posts.
So, our volleyball playing Athletic Director hires the most inept Offensive Coordinator in major college football to replace the greatest offensive mind in college football that he had just fired.
Unbelievable stupidity! Unbelievable ethical buffoonery, which was confirmed by later outrageous behavior. Boy am I glad that Schemmel is gone.
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Post by The Great Aztec Joe on Oct 20, 2010 7:33:34 GMT -8
Craft did some good things here. Yes, he had to take risks, yadda, yadda. As we found out a couple of years after he got fired, it was the RIGHT call. Our APR was headed to the toilet, and the attrition rate was shocking. Nobody can DISPUTE these numbers below, his recruiting classes that were so heralded were a FRAUD: I can dispute the numbers, Josh, because I know what happened. You are just repeating an article that is full of lies as I have pointed out before. The 2002 recruiting class was not recruited by Tom Craft. You can repeat those lies all you want, as if you went to the Josef Goebbles school of propaganda. Repeating a lie over and over again does not make it true. It just makes you look like a creep for having done so. |
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Post by The Great Aztec Joe on Oct 20, 2010 7:37:09 GMT -8
I said "many of"...his most effective players. Total lies. Name the players in the last three recruiting classes of Ted Tollner who went on to the NFL. Try real hard, Josh. See if you can add them all up. |
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Post by joshjones1 on Oct 20, 2010 7:56:46 GMT -8
I said "many of"...his most effective players. Total lies. Name the players in the last three recruiting classes of Ted Tollner who went on to the NFL. Try real hard, Josh. See if you can add them all up. Morrison, McCoy, Farwell, Webb, Osgood, Tolver, Kracalik, and Larry Ned....off the top of my head. Crafts final season was NOT all frosh and sophs. Look at the two deep from that team. HIS recruits (after the mulligan first class, which he had limited time to get) were, yes. And normally, YES, I would agree he was fired too soon. YES, Schemmel was a buffoon. YES, Crafts classes suffered massive attrition rates and academic issues that would have sunk him regardless, and Longs efforts there are one of the few nice things you can say about his time on the Mesa. Cleaning up Crafts mess APR and attrition wise. If you dont think APR is important Joe, losing schollies, then I can't help you. You simply can NOT lose 1/3 of your classes and expect to build a program that was already in the shitter. Those articles are facts, not lies. Look at it. It wasn't just the 2002 class. |
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Post by johneaztec on Oct 20, 2010 21:02:20 GMT -8
Total lies. Name the players in the last three recruiting classes of Ted Tollner who went on to the NFL. Try real hard, Josh. See if you can add them all up. Morrison, McCoy, Farwell, Webb, Osgood, Tolver, Kracalik, and Larry Ned....off the top of my head. Crafts final season was NOT all frosh and sophs. Look at the two deep from that team. HIS recruits (after the mulligan first class, which he had limited time to get) were, yes. And normally, YES, I would agree he was fired too soon. YES, Schemmel was a buffoon. YES, Crafts classes suffered massive attrition rates and academic issues that would have sunk him regardless, and Longs efforts there are one of the few nice things you can say about his time on the Mesa. Cleaning up Crafts mess APR and attrition wise. If you dont think APR is important Joe, losing schollies, then I can't help you. You simply can NOT lose 1/3 of your classes and expect to build a program that was already in the shitter. Those articles are facts, not lies. Look at it. It wasn't just the 2002 class. You may say many of his NFL players were from the Tollner era, but he did a helluva job recruiting players that ended up in the NFL. I would say MOST of the players he coached to the NFL were his recruits. The other thing Josh, about you saying that even if Craft came back for his fifth year he would have basically failed, I'm not buying it. There was an incredible amount of talent coming back that fifth year, and he had the connections in the JC ranks to stop gap and plug the holes where needed to ensure they didn't fail there. He also wouldn't have run a Midwest offense. I can first hand tell you that he was licking his chops at that fifth year and what he could do with that team, with the talent that was coming back. If Craft came back, they sure as hell wouldn't have went with only H.S. guys and failed to plug those important holes. How Schemmel came up with the idea that we as fans were willing to wait another four years for these H.S. guys to come to fruition is beyond me. I think with the guys Craft had coming back that fifth year and his connections, we would have went bowling and endured the attrition. As it turns out, we have a hell of a coach total staff now. We should also acknowledge these EXCELLENT recruits that Long came up with, who are now paying off, big time. Guys on both lines, receivers, Hillman, who Long CERTAINLY had a hand in landing. Etc.......... |
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