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Post by AztecWilliam on Oct 27, 2014 10:08:17 GMT -8
It's easy to make judgements on why one coach succeeds and another fails. Too many of us assume that we really can figure out why A is a winner and B is a wannabe.
As for Hoke, no one can blame him for giving the Michigan job a try. But it's also painfully obvious that Brady was at best #3 on Michigan's list. They kind of had to take him since the preferred coaches on their list could not be hired.
I'm not sure whether the Rodriquez/Hoke comparison is fair. RichRod has been successful over a period of years at a top level program. Hoke had had moderate success at lower level schools. Was Hoke's success at Ball State less impressive than that of Rodriquez at West Virginia? In terms of wins and losses, yes. But Ball State was at a much lower level when Hoke took over, so his building up that program has to be given credit.
Rodriquez pulled off a soft landing at Arizona and may be successful there for another decade. Maybe the people at Arizona realized that RichRod had been given a poor hand at Ann Arbor. As for Hoke, I think he may well not be so fortunate should he lose his job in December. That's not a certainty, by the way. The Wolverines would have to win out the rest of the games including against OSU. That won't we easy, but it's not impossible. But I do think the odds are against Hoke. After having failed in his dream job, where does he go? He's not that young any more. Would he want to take a job as HC at a lower level school desperate to turn things around? I can't see him as head coach at New Mexico State. Georgia State or Troy, maybe. Perhaps SMU, where June Jones is winless so far this season and may want to retire if not fired; he hasn't done much there recently, in any event.
As the saying goes, be careful what you wish for. If Hoke gets fired, he probably will still not regret leaving SDSU. But from where I sit, it seems that he would have been better off staying on Montezuma Mesa.
AzWm
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2014 10:09:32 GMT -8
Rocky lovers, do you think that Long would be successful coaching Michigan? Hoke's awful Michigan team would beat SDSU by 25. Your second sentence does not, and can not, answer your first question. A more pertinent question would be 'would a Long coached Michigan team beat a Hoke coached Michigan team?'. Apples to apples, right?
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Post by sdsustoner on Oct 27, 2014 10:54:06 GMT -8
My Michigan alumnus work friend told me "F8*k you" after I suggested Michigan take a look at Arizona's coach for consideration since the Cats are having a great season. hahahaha
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Post by Fishn'Aztec on Oct 27, 2014 11:04:41 GMT -8
My Michigan alumnus work friend told me "F8*k you" after I suggested Michigan take a look at Arizona's coach for consideration since the Cats are having a great season. hahahaha My ex-boss, (retired & a Mich alum) called me a week or so ago and told me: "we could have Hoke back now"!
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Post by missiontrails on Oct 27, 2014 11:15:21 GMT -8
My Michigan alumnus work friend told me "F8*k you" after I suggested Michigan take a look at Arizona's coach for consideration since the Cats are having a great season. hahahaha My ex-boss, (retired & a Mich alum) called me a week or so ago and told me: "we could have Hoke back now"! I hope you didn't tell him they could have Fisher back!
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Hire Hoke
Oct 27, 2014 11:17:12 GMT -8
via mobile
Post by The Aztec Panther on Oct 27, 2014 11:17:12 GMT -8
The funny thing is most Michigan fans were really happy after Hoke's first year. His record has dropped every year since. But after that first season Michigan fans were psyched up about Hoke and the future of that program.
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Post by gocoaztec on Oct 27, 2014 11:18:53 GMT -8
I'm not a Hoke hater and in fact I am grateful that his hire got our FB program turned around and heading in the right direction. But, the facts/results lead me to believe that Rocky Long is a better college head coach than Brady Hoke.
There is little doubt in my mind that this year's Michigan team would have a better record and would be more competitive with Rocky as their HC instead of Brady. Of course, it is only opinion.
Much like debates regarding which player was/is the best, we are fortunate that both Coach Hoke and Coach R Long have had a positive impact on Aztec football. I wish Coach Hoke the best, (unless he ends up at another MWC school).
Go Aztecs!
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Post by Fishn'Aztec on Oct 27, 2014 11:36:43 GMT -8
My ex-boss, (retired & a Mich alum) called me a week or so ago and told me: "we could have Hoke back now"! I hope you didn't tell him they could have Fisher back! Nah, he admits Fisher got hosed by the school and "Beeline" is good enough for them now.
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Post by fanhood on Oct 27, 2014 11:45:50 GMT -8
Ok, I know that people don't want to get into a "Headset" argument, but I have to bring it up.
Anyone that has ever served in the military recognizes that communication and situational awareness is essential to the success of a combat unit. Furthermore, as an Officer or Senior Non-Commisioned Officer, your most important weapons is your radio. Most of the combat vets on this board will tell you that when they were in senior level, ground leadership positions ranging from Platoon Leader/Platoon Sergeant to Battalion Commander/Command Sergeant Major, the most important tool they had was their radio. Through the radio your troops could paint you a picture of the part of the battle field you could not see. Through the radio, you could maneuver your supporting elements. Through the radio, you could position yourself so that you could most effectively control your rates of fire, and through the radio, you could gather the proper information so that you could personally move towards the sound of the guns. That is why when a CEO/Head Football Coach makes the statement that he does not need a headset, I laugh, and it quickly becomes apparent that this individual has no freaking idea what is role is, and is not comfortable in his own skin as a senior leader of the football program. You have to know what your soldiers/players and leaders/coaches are seeing, hearing, and doing. Without communication with your guys in the press box, you cannot gain situational awareness of the battlefield/football field. If you do not have situational awareness or are not willing to seek it out, you have no business leading a program, organization or unit.
In short, Brady is not fit to lead a football team. He is more suited to be a Defensive Line Coach. Everyone needs to understand their role, or push themselves to the point where they "peter out." Once someone "peters out" there is honor in heading back to a lower level position.
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Post by uncledougy on Oct 27, 2014 12:10:28 GMT -8
Rocky Basher,do you think you would have written this if you had any critical thinking skills? did he post it to bash rocky? yes. is what he said not true? sadly, no. I think it's less about coaching and more to do with the calibur of player each gets. Hoke should do more with what he has, but saying Rocky isn't as good a coach as Hoke because Hoke has better athletes is short sighted. Rocky is as good a coach as you will find for the money he is getting.
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Post by sdsustoner on Oct 27, 2014 12:12:48 GMT -8
My Michigan alumnus work friend told me "F8*k you" after I suggested Michigan take a look at Arizona's coach for consideration since the Cats are having a great season. hahahaha My ex-boss, (retired & a Mich alum) called me a week or so ago and told me: "we could have Hoke back now"! LOL Missiontrails already posted my response. We're not giving Fisher back. The UNC news makes me think he may get a second national title at Mich though.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2014 12:45:34 GMT -8
Hoke is a good coach. He'll do fine. Probably just not good enough to run a program at the very top. He went after his dream and lived it. It hasn't worked out so far. I give him credit for trying it. His last year here was a good one. I wish he had stayed. That's my feeling too. I once obtained MY dream job. At least I thought it was. Unlike Brady is going to be, I wasn't fired but I might have been had I hung around long enough since after performing very well elsewhere to that point, I just was pretty mediocre in that position and my superiors didn't hesitate to let me know it. After quitting, I went into business for myself and after struggling for quite awhile, everything has worked out great. Hoke is obviously going through a terrible time and he knows he's not long for Ann Arbor. However, I'm certain that after struggling to get his career back in gear that just like me, he will be much better off down the road. My guess is that after a couple years as an NFL assistant, he will get another HC gig at a MAC school with far more potential than Ball State and that he will be successful there long term. See Jeff Bower at Southern Miss as an example. Oh and my apologies to those disappointed that I don't join them in relishing Hoke's failure at his dream job.
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Post by Fishn'Aztec on Oct 27, 2014 12:50:11 GMT -8
Hoke is a good coach. He'll do fine. Probably just not good enough to run a program at the very top. He went after his dream and lived it. It hasn't worked out so far. I give him credit for trying it. His last year here was a good one. I wish he had stayed. That's my feeling too. I once obtained MY dream job. At least I thought it was. Unlike Brady is going to be, I wasn't fired but I might have been had I hung around long enough since after performing very well elsewhere to that point, I just was pretty mediocre in that position and my superiors didn't hesitate to let me know it. After quitting, I went into business for myself and after struggling for quite awhile, everything has worked out great. Hoke is obviously going through a terrible time and he knows he's not long for Ann Arbor. However, I'm certain that after struggling to get his career back in gear that just like me, he will be much better off down the road. My guess is that after a couple years as an NFL assistant, he will get another HC gig at a MAC school with far more potential than Ball State and that he will be successful there long term. See Jeff Bower at Southern Miss as an example. Oh and my apologies to those disappointed that I don't join them in relishing Hoke's failure at his dream job. I tried to slow this train to a stop, didn't work. O.K. he reached for the brass ring and fell off the merry-go-round. It's pretty much over, he needs to dust himself off and get back in the game when the time comes. Can we let this rest until the hammer falls?? Read more: aztecmesa.proboards.com/thread/40408/hire-hoke?page=3#ixzz3HNemJqkn
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Post by AztecWilliam on Oct 27, 2014 17:55:19 GMT -8
Hoke is a good coach. He'll do fine. Probably just not good enough to run a program at the very top. He went after his dream and lived it. It hasn't worked out so far. I give him credit for trying it. His last year here was a good one. I wish he had stayed. That's my feeling too. I once obtained MY dream job. At least I thought it was. Unlike Brady is going to be, I wasn't fired but I might have been had I hung around long enough since after performing very well elsewhere to that point, I just was pretty mediocre in that position and my superiors didn't hesitate to let me know it. After quitting, I went into business for myself and after struggling for quite awhile, everything has worked out great. Hoke is obviously going through a terrible time and he knows he's not long for Ann Arbor. However, I'm certain that after struggling to get his career back in gear that just like me, he will be much better off down the road. My guess is that after a couple years as an NFL assistant, he will get another HC gig at a MAC school with far more potential than Ball State and that he will be successful there long term. See Jeff Bower at Southern Miss as an example. Oh and my apologies to those disappointed that I don't join them in relishing Hoke's failure at his dream job. How old were you when you left the job where you were having troubles? Hoke will turn 56 a week from today. Two years as an assistant somewhere else would make him 58. If you have had a solid record of winning as a HC at a P5 school, 58 may well be young enough to be hired to lead a DI program. If Hoke is fired this year, his record will probably not be impressive enough to convince a top level program to hire him as HC. (His failure at Michigan will be the story.) If he can't get a job then, pretty soon he will be past 60 and his chances will keep diminishing. Of course, he could look around the FCS to see which schools are looking for a new coach. But a school in that subdivision willing to hire him will not offer much in the way of salary and will also probably be in pretty bad shape in terms of recent wins and losses, and will probably not have much in the way of facilities. In other words, he will have to be satisfied with the cold left-overs. By this point I have convinced myself that Hoke made a huge mistake when he left SDSU. If the guy had just had the sense to ask my advice, maybe he would not now be on the hot seat! AzWm
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Post by tttrojan4life on Oct 27, 2014 19:42:43 GMT -8
Hoke, despite a disastrous stint at Michigan, is an excellent coach. Michigan is to blame for their troubles; they live in the past. That's why they haven't been good for a long time. They fired Rich Rod!
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Post by Azthetic on Oct 27, 2014 20:14:43 GMT -8
did he post it to bash rocky? yes.. is what he said not true? sadly, no. True, but it's kinda like a Dodger fan bragging about beating the Padres. When you've got the resources......... That is a weak, defeatist attitude. Dodgers are not in the World Series. Padres have been in one more recently than the Dodgers. Royals are there. Rays have won. It's not about money, it's about management.
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Post by Azthetic on Oct 27, 2014 20:22:16 GMT -8
Plus, Dodger fans don't brag about beating the Padres. That is both the strength and problem with the attitude of the Dodgers overall.
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Post by missiontrails on Oct 27, 2014 20:32:51 GMT -8
Plus, Dodger fans don't brag about beating the Padres. That is both the strength and problem with the attitude of the Dodgers overall. The Dodger fans I know do.
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Post by missiontrails on Oct 27, 2014 20:35:38 GMT -8
True, but it's kinda like a Dodger fan bragging about beating the Padres. When you've got the resources......... That is a weak, defeatist attitude. Dodgers are not in the World Series. Padres have been in one more recently than the Dodgers. Royals are there. Rays have won. It's not about money, it's about management. So you're saying Michigan $ gives their football team no advantage over ours. Got it.....
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Post by bearfoot on Oct 27, 2014 20:42:31 GMT -8
My ex-boss, (retired & a Mich alum) called me a week or so ago and told me: "we could have Hoke back now"! LOL Missiontrails already posted my response. We're not giving Fisher back. The UNC news makes me think he may get a second national title at Mich though. That would be great, but when the NCAA vacates a spot in a championship, that's it. They do not move others up.
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