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Post by AztecWilliam on Apr 2, 2014 11:57:15 GMT -8
Being a retired geezer, I spend way too much time delving into arcane sources, and that includes sports! Okay, I was checking out the all-time season results for Aztec basketball and noticed the W/L totals for Smokey Gaines. I noticed that Smokey started well and then faded. I wasn't paying that much attention to hoops at SDSU in those days. Why did he not succeed over the long haul?
1979–80 Smokey Gaines 3–11 T-(7th).... 6–21 1980–81 Smokey Gaines 8–8 (5th)...... 15–12 1981–82 Smokey Gaines 11–5 T-(2nd).. 20–9 Lost NIT 1st Round 1982–83 Smokey Gaines 8–8 T-(5th).... 18–10 1983–84 Smokey Gaines 6–10 T-(6th) ..15–13 1984–85 Smokey Gaines 11–5 (2nd) .... 23–8 Champion Lost NCAA 1st Round 1985–86 Smokey Gaines 7–9 (6th) ...... 10–19 Lost Semi-Finals 1986–87 Smokey Gaines 2–14 T-(8th).... 5–25 Lost Quarter-Finals
AzWm
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Post by missiontrails on Apr 2, 2014 12:11:09 GMT -8
Given my nearly as hazy memories of those days.......I think he started wearing out his welcome in the player's eyes. Didn't he lose a couple of promising players after their freshman year to transfer? He was a bit of a showman (former Globetrotter), and I don't think that worked as well out here in So Cal as it did in Detroit. But he did sign some great players in his early days, most notably Michael Cage.
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Post by MontezumaPhil on Apr 2, 2014 12:19:01 GMT -8
He was said to be able to recruit like crazy, but apart from Cage and Percy Gilbert and a couple of other guys, he never really did. The Sports Arena was an albatross around the necks of all Aztec coaches back then, so you could say Smokey never had much of a chance.
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Post by bearfoot on Apr 2, 2014 12:21:54 GMT -8
I began my long trek to the current Aztec success in Smokey's second season, So I have the background. In short, I'd say prop 48 killed Smokey. I know, from an inside source, that when the great Michael C completed his 4 years of eligibility, he had not yet completed his sophomore classes. Smokey could't get the kids into school that he needed.
He was a great recruiter, but had no one in his staff that could teach fundamentals. Leonard cold catch the ball when he was a freshman, and still couldn't after 4 seasons. His first assistant was a yes man, who had little regard for who he was talking to, or about. I had more than one meeting with this guy, and each time I was shocked at how he spoke of folks on campus, the program and of big money boosters.
He also earned a very bad reputation amongst local B-Ball coaches for his recruiting (lack of) Style.
The program also went into probation while Smokey was there. It revolved around a player whose name was (I think) David Bradley.
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Post by longtimebooster on Apr 2, 2014 12:33:20 GMT -8
Smokey was a showman. He was able to lure Cage to San Diego. How he did it, who knows. Cage played h.s. ball in Memphis with Keith Lee, who was the No. 1 recruit in the nation in 1980/81. Cage could've gone to Memphis with Lee and won a couple of National Championships. Memphis was a perennial power and made the Final Four during Lee's tenure. But I think Cage hated Memphis and the South and just wanted to get away and start over on the West Coast.
After landing Cage, Smokey should've been able to build a Final Four-type team around him. But he didn't. We were always missing pieces to the puzzle. We had an outstanding PG in Anthony Watson, but almost nothing else. Our outside shooting was horrific -- worse than this season's Aztecs. As a result, teams would simply double- and triple-team Cage. He was a one man wrecking crew, but no one could do it all by themselves. He was likely able to recruit some guys because they wanted to play with Cage. After Cage left, Smokey had no more carrots to dangle, and the recruiting spigot dried up quickly.
Smokey came really, really close to getting over the hump. I remember the year he beat UNM and UTEP back-to-back at the S.A. (Both were Top 20-caliber teams.) The joint was jumping. About 9k at the games. They were the largest, rowdiest crowds we had until Fish arrived.
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Post by longtimebooster on Apr 2, 2014 12:35:29 GMT -8
Smokey could't get the kids into school that he needed. I do recall a couple of big-time recruits everyone got excited about. And then the hit the wall with the admissions office and wandered away.
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Post by missiontrails on Apr 2, 2014 13:13:29 GMT -8
He was said to be able to recruit like crazy, but apart from Cage and Percy Gilbert and a couple of other guys, he never really did. The Sports Arena was an albatross around the necks of all Aztec coaches back then, so you could say Smokey never had much of a chance. Percy Gilbert was a Tim Vezie recruit. Leonard Allen and Anthony Watson were solid recruits for Smokey. As was Eddy Gordon (Aaron and Drew's dad).
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Post by zollner on Apr 2, 2014 13:38:59 GMT -8
He was said to be able to recruit like crazy, but apart from Cage and Percy Gilbert and a couple of other guys, he never really did. The Sports Arena was an albatross around the necks of all Aztec coaches back then, so you could say Smokey never had much of a chance. Percy Gilbert was a Tim Vezie recruit. Leonard Allen and Anthony Watson were solid recruits for Smokey. As was Eddy Gordon (Aaron and Drew's dad). Quick story about Tim Vezie and recruiting. At the time Vezie was coaching that did not have a McDonald's All-American high school game they had thanks to Sonny Vacaro a high school all star game called the Dapper Dan Classic which was held every year in Pittsburgh. The best high school players in the U.S. against the best players from Pa. During Vezie's first or second year I had an in with a player who was from Pittsburgh and was selected the MVP of the Dapper Dan Classic. The kids name was Hosa Champagne he was a point guard.My Dad was his high school coach, I called Vezie and told him about the kid and to please give him or my Dad a call. Vezie never did, the kid ends up playing for Ray Mayer at Depaul.That was the last time I tried to help Vezie. Ray Mayer also coached George Miken the first super star of the NBA. Just rantings from a deranged mind.
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Post by 1985aztec on Apr 2, 2014 14:10:01 GMT -8
Because he was a Dickey V assistant.
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Post by bearfoot on Apr 2, 2014 14:33:21 GMT -8
Smokey could't get the kids into school that he needed. I do recall a couple of big-time recruits everyone got excited about. And then the hit the wall with the admissions office and wandered away. Right, it was before Prop 48. That was one of the things that particular Assist coach told me. "We are fighting to get this great player in here, but "they" keep giving him exams that he can't pass. They need to understand the inner city kid."
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Post by aztecbb on Apr 2, 2014 14:38:02 GMT -8
I do recall a couple of big-time recruits everyone got excited about. And then the hit the wall with the admissions office and wandered away. Right, it was before Prop 48. That was one of the things that particular Assist coach told me. "We are fighting to get this great player in here, but "they" keep giving him exams that he can't pass. They need to understand the inner city kid." That is my favorite line of the day : "they" keep giving him exams that he can't pass.
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Post by bearfoot on Apr 2, 2014 14:42:11 GMT -8
He was said to be able to recruit like crazy, but apart from Cage and Percy Gilbert and a couple of other guys, he never really did. The Sports Arena was an albatross around the necks of all Aztec coaches back then, so you could say Smokey never had much of a chance. Percy Gilbert was a Tim Vezie recruit. Leonard Allen and Anthony Watson were solid recruits for Smokey. As was Eddy Gordon (Aaron and Drew's dad). Yes, Eddy is those kids dad. Eddy holds a place in Aztec B-Ball history. He was the last who actually graduated in 1980 from our program until Courtie Miller graduated in 1991. Eleven years and not one graduated. Nice!
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Post by bearfoot on Apr 2, 2014 14:49:37 GMT -8
Smokey could't get the kids into school that he needed. I do recall a couple of big-time recruits everyone got excited about. And then the hit the wall with the admissions office and wandered away. I just found this eye opening article in the LA Times archives. It goes a long way in explaining what happened, and why I think Mary Alice Hill was the worst person in Aztec athletic history. She's the one who re-uped Smokey in the middle of a whole lot of this mess. THis also confirms what I wrote about one of the coaches. It also might answer why one coach was run down the road, and the other stayed. articles.latimes.com/1987-01-22/sports/sp-234_1_senior-class
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Post by aronoff on Apr 2, 2014 14:53:04 GMT -8
The academic support mechanisms in place today did not exist for Smokey. He felt he could manage 2-3 special admits each season but could not get the University behind him.
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Post by retiredaztec on Apr 2, 2014 20:50:49 GMT -8
He was said to be able to recruit like crazy, but apart from Cage and Percy Gilbert and a couple of other guys, he never really did. The Sports Arena was an albatross around the necks of all Aztec coaches back then, so you could say Smokey never had much of a chance. Percy Gilbert was a Tim Vezie recruit. Leonard Allen and Anthony Watson were solid recruits for Smokey. As was Eddy Gordon (Aaron and Drew's dad). If I remember correctly, USC wanted Percy, (later wanted to be known as Presnell), to play football which he had no interest in. He came to State with a blaze of glory, along with big man center Fred Branch and fans thought the program had turned the corner. Then Presnell got bored, left the team and that was about it. Just another chapter in a program that had about as bad luck as one program could have.
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Post by retiredaztec on Apr 2, 2014 21:18:11 GMT -8
Percy Gilbert was a Tim Vezie recruit. Leonard Allen and Anthony Watson were solid recruits for Smokey. As was Eddy Gordon (Aaron and Drew's dad). If I remember correctly, USC wanted Percy, (later wanted to be known as Presnell), to play football which he had no interest in. He came to State with a blaze of glory, along with big man center Fred Branch and fans thought the program had turned the corner. Then Presnell got bored, left the team and that was about it. Just another chapter in a program that had about as bad luck as one program could have. Oh yeah, I forgot to add gunner Brian Frishman to the mix. This guy could score 30 points going 12 for 32 on any given night. But I digress, this is about Coach Dapper. See kids, what happens when you get to open the vault? Some day you will too. (Personally point guard Mark Delsman was my favorite. Gutty little guy, not afraid of anyone which was something considering State was under the shadow of teams like Tark's LBSU, and could dribble the ball between his legs as good as anyone). Different "flavor" to the teams back then. I remember.... ok, time for bed.
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Post by AztecFemBone on Apr 2, 2014 21:22:01 GMT -8
Um, I dunno. I was a full-time undergrad. I went to games. It was cold because the court was on top of ice. I went home & studied. I guess life might have been different if basketball were like it is today.
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Post by aztecmichael on Apr 2, 2014 21:37:31 GMT -8
On the good side, Smokey was a star salesman! He convinced good players to come here while recruiting from a trailer. Our facilities were abysmal. Smokey really injected some excitement into Aztec Bball.
Unfortunately, his staff was terrible. His team of Cage, zack Jones, Watson should have been great. Unfortunately, they were just fair to good. (Btw, I still remember seeing both Keith Lee and Cage during their recruiting visit.). Smokeys best team was the year after Cage left. Allen and Watson led the team to the Ncaa tourney and they were really good. After that season, it was all downhill. I remember going to a game in his last year, his son was on the team, literally counting the fans in the arena. I never got to 1,000.
Great memories...I was a naive and unnecessarily full of myself accounting major for those years.
BTW, I would take Smokey over Brandenburg any day. At least I knew what to expect with Smokey. I have ZERO respect for Brandenburg once he chose that idiot Michael Best and ran a great shooter and person Tony Ross out of the program.
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Post by aztecmusician on Apr 3, 2014 0:42:38 GMT -8
After Aztec Basketball, I think Smokey owned a night club near the stadium called Monks. Does anybody remember that place?
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Post by Fishn'Aztec on Apr 3, 2014 4:33:49 GMT -8
Didn't Tony Gwynn go out in the same graduating class with Cage?
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