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Post by AztecWilliam on Aug 7, 2010 5:56:43 GMT -8
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Post by aztecwin on Aug 7, 2010 6:38:32 GMT -8
That is correct. That is why I hope that Independents and Conservatives force the Repubs to offer a Conservative slate of Candidates in future elections and that Conservatives take over the Repubs and reshape the party. We are stating to crack open at the seams under the weight of liberal spending and onerous taxes and regulation. There has got to be some relief for the country and that could very well be started by a huge move toward Conservatives this fall. |
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Post by uwaztec on Aug 7, 2010 10:33:03 GMT -8
That is correct. That is why I hope that Independents and Conservatives force the Repubs to offer a Conservative slate of Candidates in future elections and that Conservatives take over the Repubs and reshape the party. We are stating to crack open at the seams under the weight of liberal spending and onerous taxes and regulation. There has got to be some relief for the country and that could very well be started by a huge move toward Conservatives this fall. Hey Win.... can you and the rest of the right wingers at least get some people similar to Barry Goldwater and William F. Buckley on your side again. At least those guys were intelligent and respectable (I liked both). I think the conservatives, in their hatred of Obama, are panicking and going for complete dolts like Palin and Bachman. I mean I hear educated people on here backing these people...which to me is a sign of fear and panic. |
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Post by aztecwin on Aug 7, 2010 10:59:13 GMT -8
That is correct. That is why I hope that Independents and Conservatives force the Repubs to offer a Conservative slate of Candidates in future elections and that Conservatives take over the Repubs and reshape the party. We are stating to crack open at the seams under the weight of liberal spending and onerous taxes and regulation. There has got to be some relief for the country and that could very well be started by a huge move toward Conservatives this fall. Hey Win.... can you and the rest of the right wingers at least get some people similar to Barry Goldwater and William F. Buckley on your side again. At least those guys were intelligent and respectable (I liked both). I think the conservatives, in their hatred of Obama, are panicking and going for complete dolts like Palin and Bachman. I mean I hear educated people on here backing these people...which to me is a sign of fear and panic. Herein lies a big problem. Palin or Bachman are not my favorites, but when I see the panic they cause among liberals I must laugh. Is it that their ideas are catching on? Maybe not those two women catching on but the Conservative ideas that they repeat. I would be careful how you toss the dolt word around when liberals offer Joe Biden and Barney Frank as viable leaders.  I don't think hatred is the right way to describe how Conservatives feel about Obama. It is just an intense fear for the health of the country that had the collective lack of wisdom to elect him. The reversal is on the way now and the next opportunity to see a partial score will be Nov 2. |
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Post by uwaztec on Aug 7, 2010 11:09:43 GMT -8
Hey Win.... can you and the rest of the right wingers at least get some people similar to Barry Goldwater and William F. Buckley on your side again. At least those guys were intelligent and respectable (I liked both). I think the conservatives, in their hatred of Obama, are panicking and going for complete dolts like Palin and Bachman. I mean I hear educated people on here backing these people...which to me is a sign of fear and panic. Herein lies a big problem. Palin or Bachman are not my favorites, but when I see the panic they cause among liberals I must laugh. Is it that their ideas are catching on? Maybe not those two women catching on but the Conservative ideas that they repeat. I would be careful how you toss the dolt word around when liberals offer Joe Biden and Barney Frank as viable leaders. I don't think hatred is the right way to describe how Conservatives feel about Obama. It is just an intense fear for the health of the country that had the collective lack of wisdom to elect him. The reversal is on the way now and the next opportunity to see a partial score will be Nov 2. When Bush was president, he was so hated by the left and many in the middle, that they would have voted for the dog catcher to forget about him. How can you avoid that on your side? You did not answer my question.... where are the Buckleys and Goldwaters? |
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Post by aztecwin on Aug 7, 2010 12:07:37 GMT -8
Herein lies a big problem. Palin or Bachman are not my favorites, but when I see the panic they cause among liberals I must laugh. Is it that their ideas are catching on? Maybe not those two women catching on but the Conservative ideas that they repeat. I would be careful how you toss the dolt word around when liberals offer Joe Biden and Barney Frank as viable leaders. I don't think hatred is the right way to describe how Conservatives feel about Obama. It is just an intense fear for the health of the country that had the collective lack of wisdom to elect him. The reversal is on the way now and the next opportunity to see a partial score will be Nov 2. When Bush was president, he was so hated by the left and many in the middle, that they would have voted for the dog catcher to forget about him. How can you avoid that on your side? You did not answer my question.... where are the Buckleys and Goldwaters? People like Buckley and Goldwater are few and far between in either party. There are very few like JFK or Harry Truman either. The real clear thinkers like Newt and Rove are very smart to the point they are hated for being that smart. There are too many like Lindsey Graham or Joe Biden that are both not all that capable but also have no real core beliefs. In the unlikely event that Newt were to run, he would lay out such a clear path to a sound economy and national defense that he would have little problem winning. Can you imagine a debate between Newt and Obama? That most likely will never happened because he will not be willing to weather the character attacks again. Romney is the probable Republican this next time and he is a pretty capable and principled man. He has solid accomplishments in his past and it is beyond me how we ran McCain instead. |
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Post by uwaztec on Aug 7, 2010 12:32:09 GMT -8
When Bush was president, he was so hated by the left and many in the middle, that they would have voted for the dog catcher to forget about him. How can you avoid that on your side? You did not answer my question.... where are the Buckleys and Goldwaters? People like Buckley and Goldwater are few and far between in either party. There are very few like JFK or Harry Truman either. The real clear thinkers like Newt and Rove are very smart to the point they are hated for being that smart. There are too many like Lindsey Graham or Joe Biden that are both not all that capable but also have no real core beliefs. In the unlikely event that Newt were to run, he would lay out such a clear path to a sound economy and national defense that he would have little problem winning. Can you imagine a debate between Newt and Obama? That most likely will never happened because he will not be willing to weather the character attacks again. Romney is the probable Republican this next time and he is a pretty capable and principled man. He has solid accomplishments in his past and it is beyond me how we ran McCain instead. Well...I don't have too much of a problem with Romney....problem is he will probably cave to the far Right and run Palin, Bachman or some other whack job for VP and you could lose again... |
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Post by aztecwin on Aug 7, 2010 12:35:23 GMT -8
People like Buckley and Goldwater are few and far between in either party. There are very few like JFK or Harry Truman either. The real clear thinkers like Newt and Rove are very smart to the point they are hated for being that smart. There are too many like Lindsey Graham or Joe Biden that are both not all that capable but also have no real core beliefs. In the unlikely event that Newt were to run, he would lay out such a clear path to a sound economy and national defense that he would have little problem winning. Can you imagine a debate between Newt and Obama? That most likely will never happened because he will not be willing to weather the character attacks again. Romney is the probable Republican this next time and he is a pretty capable and principled man. He has solid accomplishments in his past and it is beyond me how we ran McCain instead. Well...I don't have too much of a problem with Romney....problem is he will probably cave to the far Right and run Palin, Bachman or some other whack job for VP and you could lose again... If recent history is any guide, the VP on the ticket will have little if anything to do with the race. Obama won with Biden. If it were ever going to matter it would have with gaff-master Biden. I have never made a vote based on the second on the ticket. Have you? |
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Post by davdesid on Aug 7, 2010 14:27:50 GMT -8
That is correct. That is why I hope that Independents and Conservatives force the Repubs to offer a Conservative slate of Candidates in future elections and that Conservatives take over the Repubs and reshape the party. We are stating to crack open at the seams under the weight of liberal spending and onerous taxes and regulation. There has got to be some relief for the country and that could very well be started by a huge move toward Conservatives this fall. Hey Win.... can you and the rest of the right wingers at least get some people similar to Barry Goldwater and William F. Buckley on your side again. At least those guys were intelligent and respectable (I liked both). I think the conservatives, in their hatred of Obama, are panicking and going for complete dolts like Palin and Bachman. I mean I hear educated people on here backing these people...which to me is a sign of fear and panic. ,0,6595117.column?track=rss |
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Post by uwaztec on Aug 7, 2010 17:17:44 GMT -8
Well...I don't have too much of a problem with Romney....problem is he will probably cave to the far Right and run Palin, Bachman or some other whack job for VP and you could lose again... If recent history is any guide, the VP on the ticket will have little if anything to do with the race. Obama won with Biden. If it were ever going to matter it would have with gaff-master Biden. I have never made a vote based on the second on the ticket. Have you? It matters Win... McCain / Romney would have won. McCain caved to the far right and they picked Palin. Palin is the reason you lost. |
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Post by AztecWilliam on Aug 7, 2010 22:10:34 GMT -8
Palin could not win if she ran, and I'm not sure that she will actually run. She might, though. In a debate she would do poorly.
Newt would gut Obama like a dead fish in a debate, but probably could not win. He's been very coy on TV about whether he will run. If he were not at least considering the possibility seriously I think he would have flatly said "No way!"
Romney would be a good candidate and would more than hold his own against Obama in a debate. Don't know if he could win. On the other hand, how would the Dems attack him? Palin and Newt both have negatives that would fit nicely into a negative strategy, but Romney not so much. He actually has a pretty good record of public and private service. He is a clean family man with strong values.
There are other possible GOP candidates, but I don't see any one of them as being particularly strong. Pawlenty is one. Not bad, but not terrific. Gov. Jindal has proven that he is a forceful, capable governor, but he is not terribly charismatic. As with Romney (and, I guess, Pawlenty) Jindal has such a good character that it would be hard to smear him.
Huckabee is really one of my favorites. Very, very articulate, down-to-earth, knowledgeable, and filled with optimistic and positive energy. He would do well against Obama face-to-face. He's a possible candidate, but may decide that he's doing so well now that running again would not be worthwhile.
Who else? Can't think of anyone right now. For VP there are several possibilities. Rubio in FLA, but only if he wins the Senate race, and right now Crist, the former Rep. who will probably turn Dem. if he wins has the advantage, but not by much. Sen. Scott Brown, who has won his race already, is another possible. Both those two guys are pretty young, however, and, if they continue to develop, could be factors in 2016.
Meg Whitman and Carly Fiorina might also be good choices for VEEP, but again winning their current races would be a necessity.
Here's the deal. Obama is going to win in 2012 unless the economy continues to tank. It's pretty doubtful that the economy will not make at least modest gains by 2012, however, so I can't see any Rep. winning.
Only someone coming out of nowhere could beat Obama absent a prolonged recession. I'm thinking of someone such as Wendell Wilkie in 1940. But he could not beat FDR, a man who was tempting fate by running for a third term. And Wilkie could not win even though we were still at peace. (It's not hard to understand why FDR won in '44. Not too many voters wanted to change leaders when the war was still raging. Why FDR won in '40 still puzzles me a bit. Despite what some think, the economy was just barely starting to make serious gains after a decade of depression. Furthermore, the GOP had picked up about 80 House seats in 1938. Oh, well, who can figure politics?)
Overall, I am quite pessimistic about the direction the country is head in and think virtually irreparable damage will be done if Obama has two terms. By 2014 I think that the country will realize all too well that virtually every promise Obama made regarding health care was a lie or at best foolish. They will give Republicans control of Congress. The problem will be that by that time the Democrats will have changed this country so fundamentally, and irresponsibly, that the GOP will have no more luck correcting Obama's mistakes than do parties in countries such as France and Greece who try to reduce the size of government.
Worst of all, by that time Obama will have flipped the SCOTUS far to the Left. When that day comes, the Constitution will truly be a dead letter, of no more practical use than the churches that sit virtually empty on Sundays in many a European city.
AzWm
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Post by aztecwin on Aug 8, 2010 6:33:58 GMT -8
If recent history is any guide, the VP on the ticket will have little if anything to do with the race. Obama won with Biden. If it were ever going to matter it would have with gaff-master Biden. I have never made a vote based on the second on the ticket. Have you? It matters Win... McCain / Romney would have won. McCain caved to the far right and they picked Palin. Palin is the reason you lost. I dsagree and know that we can never really know for sure. Had it been a Romney/McCain ticket or Romney/Palin ticket the Repubs would have had a better chance. McCain was the reason they lost. |
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Post by The Great Aztec Joe on Aug 8, 2010 9:02:53 GMT -8
Huckabee is really one of my favorites. Very, very articulate, down-to-earth, knowledgeable, and filled with optimistic and positive energy. He would do well against Obama face-to-face. He's a possible candidate, but may decide that he's doing so well now that running again would not be worthwhile. I like him too. He was my dark-horse pick last time, but as you say no one can beat Obama so it doesn't really matter. Gosh, everytime I see him, I think of Gomer Pyle. |
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Post by The Great Aztec Joe on Aug 8, 2010 9:07:15 GMT -8
McCain was the reason they lost. Yeah because he allowed a stupid and crazy dingbat (who to my knowledge he'd never even met) to be placed on the ticket. The only way an intelligent, intuitive, experienced, knowledgeable, moderate, witty, white decorated war hero could lose an election to an Arab (or whatever he is) during a war against Arab terrorists would be to show that he is grossly lacking in judgment. He showed a gross lack of judgment in selecting palin---I know that despite all mccain's strengths there is no way I wanted that girl trying to run this country, and with mccain pushing eighty there was a decent chance that she'd have taken over at some point. She makes quayle look like Winston Churchill. The sane voters in every midwest state that mccain lost probably felt the same way. An absolutely stupefying decision, and he deserved to lose because of it. At any rate, it was a wild stab in the dark at trying to win an election that looked like it might be getting away from him very early in the process. I think America was just down right determined to elect a Black (or sorts Black) to the office of the president. It did not hurt Obama's cause that he was articulate. He is, quite frankly, an intelligent man. I think he is listening to a shitload of bad advice. I expect him to radically break away from that soon. |
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Post by Yoda on Aug 8, 2010 9:15:08 GMT -8
That is correct. That is why I hope that Independents and Conservatives force the Repubs to offer a Conservative slate of Candidates in future elections and that Conservatives take over the Repubs and reshape the party. We are stating to crack open at the seams under the weight of liberal spending and onerous taxes and regulation. There has got to be some relief for the country and that could very well be started by a huge move toward Conservatives this fall. Say what? Boy howdy do we have a different viewpoint. The conservatives are so far right that they have driven off the independents. (ie: I didn't leave the Republican Party; the Republican Party left me.") Moderate Republicans are electable; they just aren't "nominate-able". A Charlie Crist drops out of the Republican race as he has no chance of being nominated -- then runs as an Independent and now has a legitimate shot at winning the seat. The independents, when offered a chance to vote against extremism will, in almost every case, choose to do so. Where you get the notion that Independents are on "your side" I have no idea. But Moderates and Independents so fear the far right that they are more likely to align with the Stalinists than with the Palinists. Yoda out... |
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Post by Yoda on Aug 8, 2010 9:18:06 GMT -8
Obama is quite bright. Still, regardless of his race or anything else, he didn't win the election by all that much. No one will ever convince me that had he chosen any barely competent person as his running mate he wouldn't have won. Bingo! McCain could have crusified Obama on the experience issue and, instead, he picked the one politician in America who had less experience than Obama did. Add to that her extremism and his age, and McCain handed the election to Obama. Yoda out... |
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Post by Yoda on Aug 8, 2010 9:22:04 GMT -8
Herein lies a big problem. Palin or Bachman are not my favorites, but when I see the panic they cause among liberals I must laugh. Your problem isn't the panic that Palin or Bachman cause the liberals. It is the panic that they cause everybody who falls between slightly conservative and moderate. Those are the people who decide most elections. Yoda out... |
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Post by Yoda on Aug 8, 2010 9:35:29 GMT -8
...where are the Buckleys and Goldwaters? I've posted before that I thought that, if Goldwater were alive today, he would more likely be a Democrat than a Republican. Republican social policy today is no longer grounded in the Constitution; it's grounded in the Bible. That's why they have switched from protecting individual freedoms (such as abortion rights, gay rights, conservation, etc -- all of which Goldwater supported) to attempting to legislate those rights away in favor of "good Christian values". Yoda out... |
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Post by aztecwin on Aug 8, 2010 10:27:51 GMT -8
That is correct. That is why I hope that Independents and Conservatives force the Repubs to offer a Conservative slate of Candidates in future elections and that Conservatives take over the Repubs and reshape the party. We are stating to crack open at the seams under the weight of liberal spending and onerous taxes and regulation. There has got to be some relief for the country and that could very well be started by a huge move toward Conservatives this fall. Say what? Boy howdy do we have a different viewpoint. The conservatives are so far right that they have driven off the independents. (ie: I didn't leave the Republican Party; the Republican Party left me.") Moderate Republicans are electable; they just aren't "nominate-able". A Charlie Crist drops out of the Republican race as he has no chance of being nominated -- then runs as an Independent and now has a legitimate shot at winning the seat. The independents, when offered a chance to vote against extremism will, in almost every case, choose to do so. Where you get the notion that Independents are on "your side" I have no idea. But Moderates and Independents so fear the far right that they are more likely to align with the Stalinists than with the Palinists. Yoda out... I can see that your idea of a Conservative and mine are vastly different. There is nothing radical about trying to cut spending in part by reining in irresponsible programs and getting back to responsible sensible regulation that will let business and especially small business to flourish. Most any poll that you see now has independents turning toward the Republicans. I want to see the Republicans in turn propose some business and family friendly policy. They seem to be unable to curb the urge to spend just like the Democrats. |
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Post by Yoda on Aug 8, 2010 12:11:46 GMT -8
I can see that your idea of a Conservative and mine are vastly different. There is nothing radical about trying to cut spending in part by reining in irresponsible programs and getting back to responsible sensible regulation that will let business and especially small business to flourish. Most any poll that you see now has independents turning toward the Republicans. I want to see the Republicans in turn propose some business and family friendly policy. They seem to be unable to curb the urge to spend just like the Democrats. I don't consider that radical either. But I also don't consider it conservative. Any idiot, no matter which side of the political spectrum they are on, knows that you can't run up the debt that we have run up without someday, somebody having to reduce their standard of living in order to pay for it. Or at least to pay the debt servicing on it... How much of our federal budget now is spent on debt servicing? I don't remember the number -- although the 40% that sticks in my head seems high. But whatever it is, it is nothing more than a reduction in our standard of living to service the debt from years gone bye. And to the extent that we pass debt on to future generations, we are doing nothing more than enforcing upon them "taxation without representation". Except in times of national emergency, in my view a vote to pass an unbalanced budget is damn near an act of treason. And if I were President, (and obviously had one hell of a majority in Congress), you would not like my cuts. Start with this -- virtually all social spending -- including Social Security and Medicare -- should be means tested. The argument hasn't been over whether or not there was a need to bring spending in line with revenues. The argument has been over how best to do it. What you consider to be "sensible", someone else considers to be "horrific". And what they consider "sensible" you consider to be "horrific". So nobody does anything except to spend money on pork barrel projects that create jobs in their home districts -- so they can get re-elected to again not do anything. Yoda out... |
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