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Post by steveaztec on Jul 17, 2010 12:18:36 GMT -8
Yes they did......Which gets brings us back to my point to SGF above. San Jose State was 9-4 one of the years we lost to them and they also won their bowl game (New Mexico Bowl). There are losses and then there are losses. Craft beat SJSU by 31 in 2005, then Chuck LOST to them by 21 in 2006. As you say they won a bowl game that year but a 52-point turnaround speaks volumes about how far Aztecs football fell in just one year. As to 2008, we lost by 25 to an SJSU team which except for playing us won just five games. Four of those wins were over DIA schools which had a collective record of 15-35. The fifth was over mighty UC Davis by a FG. SGF: "Cal Poly I & II." SteveAztec: "Dammit, SGF, two miserable games in three years don't mean Chuck was a bad coach!" SGF: "SJSU I & II." SteveAztec: "Dammit, SGF, four miserable games in three years don't mean Chuck was a bad coach!" SGF: "70-7" SteveAztec: "Dammit, SGF, five miserable games in three years don't mean Chuck was a bad coach!" SGF: "52-0 at TCU in which SDSU was outgained 614-87." SteveAztec: "Dammit, SGF, six miserable games in three years don't mean Chuck was a bad coach!" SGF: "I give up!" Wait a minute SGF (PS, I thought you didn't want to talk about this  )... You are saying there are losses and then there are losses and you use San Jose State from year to year to make your comparison? So a 52 point turnaround against a team like San Jose State that went 9-4 is different than... A two year turnaround of about 40 points difference with Idaho? In what way? They were BOTH horrible turnarounds and BOTH were in the coaches first years. __________________________________________________ As for your jibberish at the bottom of your post.....Lets see... First off, you ended each comment with saying....Damn it SGF, that doesn't mean Chuck Long was a bad coach? I'm not sure where you came up with that?  I've never said Coach Long was a good coach and I've never said he was a bad overall coach. I said he should have got a 4th year. The reason being that with the program in the situation it was in at the time he took over.....NOBODY could have turned it around in 3 years. (with the exception of Terry Bowden, Rick N, or Dennis Erickson) The problem on this debate is the "Long Haters" have not taken the time to even understand what my position was on the situation. You keep attributing comments to me that I've never said. In fact so much, that you believe them yourself. |
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Post by AztecWilliam on Jul 17, 2010 16:16:06 GMT -8
As we all know, "the best team in a decade" isn't saying much. However, we also know that there is a decent chance that this team might actually be a lot better than what we've had in a decade. That may well be insufficient to beat Missouri on the road, but it might be enough to make the Tigers work hard for the W. What we all want to know is this; if the Hoke era is going to reach the 7 or more wins a season level, when will the trend leading to that outcome be evident? It wasn't last year, at least not after the promising 4-4 start. Is the second year too soon to see serious improvement? How about the third? My position is this. If we cannot look at the 2011 Aztecs and say, "Now that is what we've been waiting for!" something is amiss. But then, you all know my theory. Namely, Aztec football must make a turnaround pretty quickly or we may start to look like San Jose State. In any event, if 2010 doesn't end up a winner, I believe SDSU fans should take the position that 2011 must be! Otherwise we would be saying, "Well, one of these decades maybe we'll get the job done." That's not acceptable; we simply don't have decades. AzWm We've been looking like San Jose State since Chuck Long. We need a turnaround to no longer look like them. I did not express myself clearly. I was not speaking of the W/L records. As a matter of fact, San Jose State has a better W/L record in the years 1999-2009 (i.e., since our last winning season in 1998). The Spartans' record in those years is 49-80, while ours is just 43-86. What I meant was that we will start looking like a program that is close to cancellation if we don't break losing streak fairly soon. That is what many AztecMesa faithful are saying about SJSU. (I hope that cancellation is not in the future for either school.) AzWm |
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Post by aztecpaulg on Jul 17, 2010 17:39:00 GMT -8
While I have hope because Long is a great coach, until the defense proves it is
better than it has been, out recipe for success against Missouri is the same as it is
against every team: we have to have a huge offensive game. I anticipate giving up 30+ and needing Lindley and company to put up 35+.
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Post by McQuervo on Jul 17, 2010 18:53:12 GMT -8
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Post by zurac315 on Jul 17, 2010 19:54:05 GMT -8
If their guy really is like McGwire then it seems to me that we need to take risks on defense, blitz and hope it works out and that our cover guys have a good game. Dan had something like 8,000 yards in two years and, given time, could pick just about anybody apart.
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Post by steveaztec on Jul 17, 2010 22:36:15 GMT -8
Cat got your tounge?  |
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Post by AztecTom on Jul 17, 2010 22:55:19 GMT -8
To score one more point than Mizzu. ;D
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Post by aztec70 on Jul 17, 2010 23:38:46 GMT -8
+1
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Post by brokencurse on Jul 18, 2010 11:27:32 GMT -8
The problem on this debate is the "Long Haters" have not taken the time to even understand what my position was on the situation. Well, ludicrousness is hard to understand no matter how much time you take ;D  |
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Post by steveaztec on Jul 18, 2010 11:30:47 GMT -8
The problem on this debate is the "Long Haters" have not taken the time to even understand what my position was on the situation. Well, ludicrousness is hard to understand no matter how much time you take ;D That a coach that takes over one of the worst programs in the nation needs at least 4 years? Reminder, Brady Hoke was in that same situation at Ball State and it took 7 to turn it around. |
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Post by oc74aztec on Jul 18, 2010 12:43:53 GMT -8
If we win the turnover battle that leads to points; and we're in the lead or close in the 4th quarter, then we have a good chance to pull the upset.
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Post by aztech on Jul 18, 2010 13:17:41 GMT -8
If we win the turnover battle that leads to points; and we're in the lead or close in the 4th quarter, then we have a good chance to pull the upset. That has been our Achilles heel that normally resulted in moral victories, only. This team has got to do it against a BCS opponent like Missouri, as a carryover to conference play. When momentum is going against us in those situations they need to do something dramatic to reverse it. Once they do that it'll give them the confidence to build on it and pull out those close matches. This year, they'll need to. Other than maybe a game or two, we won't be dominating anyone. |
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Post by Doug Drake on Jul 18, 2010 15:28:48 GMT -8
Won't happen from what I can tell. One poll has Missouri at #30. They return a QB who passed for 3,500 yards last year and a RB who has run for 2,000 yards the past two seasons along with seven or eight defensive starters. And the Big 12 is no stranger to passing teams any more. A moral victory at best. Go Aztecs!
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Post by steveaztec on Jul 18, 2010 16:22:57 GMT -8
Won't happen from what I can tell. One poll has Missouri at #30. They return a QB who passed for 3,500 yards last year and a RB who has run for 2,000 yards the past two seasons along with seven or eight defensive starters. And the Big 12 is no stranger to passing teams any more. A moral victory at best. Go Aztecs! This would be a big win Doug. Go Aztecs!!! |
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Post by aztecmusician on Jul 19, 2010 11:00:27 GMT -8
If we win the turnover battle that leads to points; and we're in the lead or close in the 4th quarter, then we have a good chance to pull the upset. This. Turnovers will be very important in this game. The Defense will also have to step up and surrender no more than 2 touchdowns. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2010 11:11:56 GMT -8
We've been looking like San Jose State since Chuck Long. We need a turnaround to no longer look like them. Do you remember the scores against SJSU with Long? Just "looking like SJSU" would have been wishful thinking. That's how far below ground we're trying to climb from. Well said, SJSU kicked the $#!+ out of the Aztecs in their last two meetings. |
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Post by montyismyhomie on Jul 19, 2010 12:25:59 GMT -8
Well, ludicrousness is hard to understand no matter how much time you take ;D That a coach that takes over one of the worst programs in the nation needs at least 4 years? Reminder, Brady Hoke was in that same situation at Ball State and it took 7 to turn it around. I'm sorry but I knew guys on the team who played for Long and I can tell you he did not deserve a 4th year. The guy fostered a losing mentality and none of the players respected him for it. He was weak and couldn't motivate a fat kid to eat cake. I also had to listen to Long in a radio interview talk about how he was chopping the defensive playbook down to just 3 plays by the end of his last season because his players "couldn't handle more than that." I'm sorry but these are college kids not idiots. If the defense can't properly execute more than 3 different plays than that is a reflection of the coach not of the players. Lastly, if anyone remembers Long would also frequently talk about how great the team looked on fridays at practice. "Best practice of the year" was a phrase he used multiple times that last season. According to a player I spoke with the reason those great practices didn't translate into great games was that the plays they would spend all week practicing would basically get thrown out on gameday. The player told me "it was as if he had two different playbooks." This would also explain my second point as to why the kids supposedly couldn't handle more than 3 plays on defense. They'd spend all week practicing a set of plays only to have none of them called when it counted during a real game. So let's stop playing devils advocate just for the fun of it and let it go. Long should have been fired and he was. End of story. |
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Post by longtimebooster on Jul 19, 2010 12:40:24 GMT -8
Hopefully, it'll be different than the two previous times we played them.
In '79 we traveled to Mizzou for the first game of the year. Halda chucked 6 -- count 'em, 6! -- INTs that game, including 5 in the first half. It's still an Aztec record. We'd have thrashed Mizzou in that game had Halda not given up so many picks. We were moving up and down the field at will, but lost 45-15. That was the year we beat Wisconsin, Arizona and Miami. I don't think we've beaten that many big-conference teams since.
In '80, Mizzou came to the Murph for the rematch. Because of television, kickoff was set for 11 a.m. It sucked. Everyone at SDSU was mad as hornets. I believe that was the first daytime game we'd played since before Coryell. My friends and I were very hungover. And the players looked like they were, too, losing 31-7.
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Post by steveaztec on Jul 19, 2010 13:57:48 GMT -8
That a coach that takes over one of the worst programs in the nation needs at least 4 years? Reminder, Brady Hoke was in that same situation at Ball State and it took 7 to turn it around. I'm sorry but I knew guys on the team who played for Long and I can tell you he did not deserve a 4th year. The guy fostered a losing mentality and none of the players respected him for it. He was weak and couldn't motivate a fat kid to eat cake. I also had to listen to Long in a radio interview talk about how he was chopping the defensive playbook down to just 3 plays by the end of his last season because his players "couldn't handle more than that." I'm sorry but these are college kids not idiots. If the defense can't properly execute more than 3 different plays than that is a reflection of the coach not of the players. Lastly, if anyone remembers Long would also frequently talk about how great the team looked on fridays at practice. "Best practice of the year" was a phrase he used multiple times that last season. According to a player I spoke with the reason those great practices didn't translate into great games was that the plays they would spend all week practicing would basically get thrown out on gameday. The player told me "it was as if he had two different playbooks." This would also explain my second point as to why the kids supposedly couldn't handle more than 3 plays on defense. They'd spend all week practicing a set of plays only to have none of them called when it counted during a real game. So let's stop playing devils advocate just for the fun of it and let it go. Long should have been fired and he was. End of story. All opinions welcome homie......But... 1. I also talked to guys on the Long team who disagree with the guys you talked to. Are you trying to say that 100% of the players wanted him fired? That isn't even close to true. 2. Our play book on both sides did have to be chopped down. The reason was that the upper class of players was not very big, and frosh and sophs need more time to learn systems. That is no secret. 3. As for what Long said about Friday practices and practices during the week? That has been run into the ground and means nothing. What did you expect him to say? No devils advocate here. Any coach who takes over a program in as bad of shape as ours was (ESPECIALLY if he had never been a head coach anywhere before), needs AT LEAST four years on the job before being judged. |
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Post by montyismyhomie on Jul 19, 2010 14:23:23 GMT -8
Never said 100% wanted him fired. Never said any of the players wanted him fired. Said they didn't respect him. The man cried on camera with joy after both of the 2 victories that year. All the other points aside, he fostered a culture of being ok with losing and that alone should be grounds for firing him. Do you disagree?
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I've never said Coach Long was a good coach and I've never said he was a bad overall coach. I said he should have got a 4th year. The reason being that with the program in the situation it was in at the time he took over.....NOBODY could have turned it around in 3 years. (with the exception of Terry Bowden, Rick N, or Dennis Erickson)
