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Post by aztecwin on Jun 4, 2011 11:05:43 GMT -8
Water boarding......Can you last 15 Seconds? It's important to know what the controversy is about. Torture or not? This is unreal! Watch it and understand why we have the best military in the world. There is no permanent damage done but the response is immediate. A much more humane and effective way to obtain critical intelligence quickly without brutalizing the prisoner. Sure beats electrocution, ripping off finger nails, acid showers, whippings/beatings, cutting off limbs, removing eyes & tongues, drilling out teeth, dislocating shoulders, burning, and other barbaric methods. Playboy.Com journalist Mike Guy underwent water boarding by a trained member of the U.S. military in the site's new Lab Rat feature. Mike Guy bet that he could endure 15 seconds of the interrogation technique used on al Qaeda chief Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and Abu Zubaydah. Watch the results: content1.clipmarks.com/content/7E8ADC46-F3DD-4D6F-B184-3A07CF501B7C |
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Post by uwaztec on Jun 4, 2011 11:48:32 GMT -8
I think I could go 15....would have to experience it of course. Seems like the key in the nose. Stu is a diver, Stu how long can you go?
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Post by tuff on Jun 4, 2011 11:56:00 GMT -8
NO!!
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Post by inevitec on Jun 4, 2011 13:24:43 GMT -8
Water boarding is torture. But then so are conservatives.  |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2011 11:45:39 GMT -8
Water boarding......Can you last 15 Seconds? It's important to know what the controversy is about. Torture or not? This is unreal! Watch it and understand why we have the best military in the world. There is no permanent damage done but the response is immediate. A much more humane and effective way to obtain critical intelligence quickly without brutalizing the prisoner. Sure beats electrocution, ripping off finger nails, acid showers, whippings/beatings, cutting off limbs, removing eyes & tongues, drilling out teeth, dislocating shoulders, burning, and other barbaric methods. Playboy.Com journalist Mike Guy underwent water boarding by a trained member of the U.S. military in the site's new Lab Rat feature. Mike Guy bet that he could endure 15 seconds of the interrogation technique used on al Qaeda chief Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and Abu Zubaydah. Watch the results: content1.clipmarks.com/content/7E8ADC46-F3DD-4D6F-B184-3A07CF501B7C Thank YOU General Sherman. Torture does not produce good information only information. Thats what a cousin said to me when I met him in Belfast last year on leave(SAS) form Afghanistan. Marine Reconn and Army Rangers had worse treatment in training,tear gassed repeatedly forced 30 mile marches with 70 pounds of gear with repeated tear gassing. Beatings combined with tear gas,being half drowned by sadistic Seal's(those navy guys like to torment Devil Dogs) in Amphibious recon school. |
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Post by Bob Forsythe on Jun 5, 2011 19:08:12 GMT -8
Wrong forum, bonehead.
=Bob
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Post by 78aztec82 on Jun 6, 2011 10:26:28 GMT -8
I think I could go 15....would have to experience it of course. Seems like the key in the nose. Stu is a diver, Stu how long can you go? Oddly, I had an accident when I was young and even though no one can notice it, I have the ability to block water into my nose. It was great for hard-fought water polo games and water tricks when I was younger but was most helpful at SERE School. They had no idea and put a washcloth over my mouth and nose and I could last all day if necessary. They stop at about what they say is 30 seconds and never understood how I did it. They said very few could. As for torture, it is annoying and just gives you a weird feeling. My colleagues would attest to it better but no one thought it was particularly evil, just awkward. Having had a chance to do it at the various survival and SERE schools, I don't know too many who would say it is torture. |
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Post by uwaztec on Jun 6, 2011 12:53:28 GMT -8
I think I could go 15....would have to experience it of course. Seems like the key in the nose. Stu is a diver, Stu how long can you go? Oddly, I had an accident when I was young and even though no one can notice it, I have the ability to block water into my nose. It was great for hard-fought water polo games and water tricks when I was younger but was most helpful at SERE School. They had no idea and put a washcloth over my mouth and nose and I could last all day if necessary. They stop at about what they say is 30 seconds and never understood how I did it. They said very few could. As for torture, it is annoying and just gives you a weird feeling. My colleagues would attest to it better but no one thought it was particularly evil, just awkward. Having had a chance to do it at the various survival and SERE schools, I don't know too many who would say it is torture. Interesting Stu. I have no idea how I would do. I have been under almost every kind of stress underwater, including sudden loss of mask many times (cave, night). But, until you try it (or get it done to you) you don't know how your physiology is going to react at that angle regarding the ability to keep water out of your nose. I think being relaxed would help, but at some point if you can't block the water (like you can) there is no way to last very long. |
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Post by aztecwin on Jun 6, 2011 15:22:27 GMT -8
Oddly, I had an accident when I was young and even though no one can notice it, I have the ability to block water into my nose. It was great for hard-fought water polo games and water tricks when I was younger but was most helpful at SERE School. They had no idea and put a washcloth over my mouth and nose and I could last all day if necessary. They stop at about what they say is 30 seconds and never understood how I did it. They said very few could. As for torture, it is annoying and just gives you a weird feeling. My colleagues would attest to it better but no one thought it was particularly evil, just awkward. Having had a chance to do it at the various survival and SERE schools, I don't know too many who would say it is torture. Interesting Stu. I have no idea how I would do. I have been under almost every kind of stress underwater, including sudden loss of mask many times (cave, night). But, until you try it (or get it done to you) you don't know how your physiology is going to react at that angle regarding the ability to keep water out of your nose. I think being relaxed would help, but at some point if you can't block the water (like you can) there is no way to last very long. Having your body at that angle also has something to do with it. When going through SERE training in the 60s, I do not remember anyone lasting more than 20 seconds or so. I did not really time it since it was a pretty intense experience. I only went through it once and it was at Schofield. Knowing what was coming up still did not help in being able to last. |
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Post by Bob Forsythe on Jun 6, 2011 17:43:55 GMT -8
The problem is we prosecuted American soldiers after the Philippines uprising and Japanese soldiers after WW II for torture by using water boarding.
If it was torture then, why is it not torture now? The fact that some of the vets on here were exposed to it in order to teach them how to react while tortured is irrelevant.
=Bob
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Post by tuff on Jun 6, 2011 17:54:03 GMT -8
The problem is we prosecuted American soldiers after the Philippines uprising and Japanese soldiers after WW II for torture by using water boarding. If it was torture then, why is it not torture now? The fact that some of the vets on here were exposed to it in order to teach them how to react while tortured is irrelevant. =Bob I think starvation, whipping, beheadings, physical torture, medical experimentation and general deprivation were a little higher on the courts list for the japanese abusers. |
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Post by Bob Forsythe on Jun 6, 2011 18:35:47 GMT -8
The problem is we prosecuted American soldiers after the Philippines uprising and Japanese soldiers after WW II for torture by using water boarding. If it was torture then, why is it not torture now? The fact that some of the vets on here were exposed to it in order to teach them how to react while tortured is irrelevant. =Bob I think starvation, whipping, beheadings, physical torture, medical experimentation and general deprivation were a little higher on the courts list for the japanese abusers. Even if you were correct, which you are not, please explain why the government prosecuted American soldiers for water boarding after the Philippines uprising. Of course, I doubt you know anything about that conflict because most no one in this country does. =Bob |
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Post by tuff on Jun 6, 2011 18:57:56 GMT -8
My dad's best friend survived the Bataan death march and pow camp. He'd laugh at you for your ignorance on torture.
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Post by The Great Aztec Joe on Jun 7, 2011 6:43:46 GMT -8
Interesting Stu. I have no idea how I would do. I have been under almost every kind of stress underwater, including sudden loss of mask many times (cave, night). But, until you try it (or get it done to you) you don't know how your physiology is going to react at that angle regarding the ability to keep water out of your nose. I think being relaxed would help, but at some point if you can't block the water (like you can) there is no way to last very long. Having your body at that angle also has something to do with it. When going through SERE training in the 60s, I do not remember anyone lasting more than 20 seconds or so. I did not really time it since it was a pretty intense experience. I only went through it once and it was at Schofield. Knowing what was coming up still did not help in being able to last. When I was younger I could amaze my children by exhaling enough air from my lungs that I could lay down on the bottom of a pool and wave to them from the bottom of nine feet of water for about a minute. You just have to keep a little positive air pressure on your nose so water does not run up it. It helps if you cock your head a little forward. That ability to move your head forward is denied you in waterboarding so some water probably runs up the boardees nose. I do not think that waterboarding is torture, tough for somebody who is not comfortable around water it probably seems like it. I guess you could say that it is emotional torture, but HELL, women have been doing that to their husbands for all of past eternity. That by the way is what I expect hell is like. You are floating there for all eternity in total darkness like it says in the Bible and throughout your time there all you can hear is a nagging woman. Nagging! Nagging! Nagging! How long do you think you could last?  ??  |
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Post by The Great Aztec Joe on Jun 7, 2011 6:59:29 GMT -8
I think starvation, whipping, beheadings, physical torture, medical experimentation and general deprivation were a little higher on the courts list for the japanese abusers. Even if you were correct, which you are not, please explain why the government prosecuted American soldiers for water boarding after the Philippines uprising. Of course, I doubt you know anything about that conflict because most no one in this country does. =Bob Bob, you need to explain which one of the Filipino uprisings you are talking about. For hundreds of years they would rise up and kill all of the Chinese merchants in their port cities. Things would calm down, more Chinese merchants would immigrate in and set up business and then the Filipino people would rise up and kill all of the Chinese merchants again. It is believed that mass extermination of Chinese happened about five times from 1340 on. Then there were the uprisings against the Spanish. They never amounted to much, but a lot of Spanish soldiers were hacked to death in the jungles and occasionally died in the cities. One of those uprisings carried over from wanting to throw the Spanish out to wanting to throw the Americans out in the 1890's. After we killed enough of their soldiers with the use of our improvised Colt .45 (stopping power) the rebellion died down and only on rare occasion had minor flareups. Our biggest problem was with the Moslem Filipinos. Those sons of bitches fought like hell and could never be totally placated. We really should have just snuffed all of their mullahs. When the Japanese invaded the islands and became colonial masters of the "Inferior" Filipinos, the Communists (Huks) rose to the fore and did a lot of damage to the Japanese supply lines. Some say they were the most effective fighters against the Japanese in the islands, just like Ho Chi Minh's forces in Viet Nam and some of Mao's forces in China. We had some difficulty with the Huks both before and after World War Two, but our obvious effort at promoting the independence of the Philippines in the coming years took a lot of steam out of that rebellion. |
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Post by aztec70 on Jun 7, 2011 7:45:59 GMT -8
What is SERE training and how does water boarding fit in?
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Post by 78aztec82 on Jun 7, 2011 9:20:23 GMT -8
What is SERE training and how does water boarding fit in? Are you serious? It is a major counterpoint to the entire argument. I think you are being coy. |
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Post by aztec70 on Jun 7, 2011 13:24:55 GMT -8
What is SERE training and how does water boarding fit in? Are you serious? It is a major counterpoint to the entire argument. I think you are being coy. Perhaps I am. Nonetheless, the question stands. |
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Post by aztecwin on Jun 7, 2011 15:47:57 GMT -8
Are you serious? It is a major counterpoint to the entire argument. I think you are being coy. Perhaps I am. Nonetheless, the question stands. Oh! Brother! |
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Post by Yoda on Jun 7, 2011 17:43:12 GMT -8
Is waterboarding torture? Probably. But I'm okay with it if it is. Anything that might spare us another 9-11 is fine with me.
I don't know that torture is necessarily effective. But whatever it takes.
Yoda out...
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