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NY-26
May 28, 2011 10:13:46 GMT -8
Post by AztecWilliam on May 28, 2011 10:13:46 GMT -8
I would like to see a serious reduction of our overseas commitments, Bob. At this time I would be reluctant to totally retreat to Fortress America, but surely we do not need 700 bases abroad. That's probably too vague for you. A 50% reduction in the DOD? Way, way too much by any sensible standard.
But here's another thing to keep in mind. Our financial situation is not going to get better if we cut billions from defense and then spend those same billions on new welfare and entitlement programs. We need to cut federal spending enough so that the national debt is lowered to a manageable level.
The key problem is this: How much of the GDP should be controlled by the federal government (actually, government in general)? Liberal and far-leftists believe that percentage should be much higher than the percentage favored by conservatives and libertarians.
AzWm
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NY-26
May 28, 2011 11:19:03 GMT -8
Post by aztecwin on May 28, 2011 11:19:03 GMT -8
Just what was your sacrifice? Looks to me like "back then" was better than now. How many food stamp families were around "back then"? We did not make much, but we ate well and made do with what we had. We raised healthy and happy families. Sure we were deployed a lot and spent year with our families overseas, but we grew stronger and closer by the experience. If your experience was not like that, the problem was not the Navy. It was internal to your situation and you want to place the blame. You were deployed remember? I wasn't. I was looking from the other end. I think I am pretty observant. I saw deployments wreck marriages, alienate children, cause drug and alcohol abuse, neglect and cause great unhappiness. I have talked with other Navy families and they agree. In fact, I did not see much happiness in Navy families except in those who avoided contact with the Navy and refused to move around, despite their involvement. I went years without venturing near a Naval facility. The attrition rate after the first deployment in the Navy was horrible, back then. The Navy infrastructure did not care. In my case, which was complicated, the Navy knew my situation, but did nothing. I can remember being hassled repeatedly by Naval authorities, watching my brother arrested walking down a street on a base because his hair was too long and watched an active process for neglecting families as policy. The Navy made me a real tough SOB. I owe the Navy Nothing. And, I am asking nothing from them. But as I said, I believe that the Navy has improved. I admire what sailors do, but because I understood what was happening to me my view of the Navy was, and is, complex. Complete different experience than was had by my family. We lived in Navy Housing when kids were toddlers in Hawaii and Guam. Very nice new quarters in a close knit community close to beaches where kids could play. No run-ins with any authority nor was anyone hassled. I question what was the cause of any problems that you might have had. You can make good outcomes with good attitudes. |
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NY-26
May 28, 2011 12:40:22 GMT -8
Post by davdesid on May 28, 2011 12:40:22 GMT -8
>>>That "obscure district" basically encompasses the burbs in Erie County and Monroe County. It is overwhelming white and has been Republican for a very long time (this is Jack Kemp's district we're discussing. But please feel free to offer your ignorance about my home state again.<<<the =Perfesser The district isn't Jack Kemp's district. This district didn't exist in its present configuration until 2002. Kemp was NY-31. If you want to go by "NY-26" and claim that Repubs have represented for decades, you'd be wrong... Maurice Hinchley, a Demagogue, held the seat for 10 years, '93-'03. Your ignorance about your "home state" is amusing. BTW, when did you leave there? When you were pre-pubescent? tinyurl.com/3gdadm9More to the point, the district in its current configuration gave Obama 46% of the vote, and Hochul got 47% last Tuesday. A mere 1 percentage point difference. Your attemps to spin it into a massive sea-change is hardly persuasive. In fact it's bull$#!+. But that's what you "learned" best at "university". bull$#!+. |
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NY-26
May 28, 2011 12:46:54 GMT -8
Post by davdesid on May 28, 2011 12:46:54 GMT -8
And in the end, this is what you have to offer - nothing except a link to a right-wing website because you have no argument aside from the wasted time you spend on the net instead of actually thinking. There was a time that I believed you were intelligent but that time has passed because its become clear that all you are capable of offering are links instead of offering intelligent arguments based upon what you've learned - which apparently is pretty close to nothing. I'm sorry, Dave, but offering this or that website is pathetic. Offering websites instead of rational arguments suggests a lack of intelligence and I find it rather sad that you would lower yourself to that level. But that's your MO - instead of offering arguments, you rely upon websites. I have no doubt that you lack understanding of how that diminishes your arguments but maybe you should figure it out. Sooner or later you have to actually offer an argument rather than just pointing to what this or that Democrat said or did. It's really rather pathetic that the best you can do is offer an apples and oranges argument instead od engaging in intelligent discourse. But what do I know? Maybe if you'd ever engaged in academic discourse you might have figured out that offering this or that link will never cut it. Maybe if you'd ever been required to write a dissertation you'd understand how it works. But what the Hell - I'm sure it was far easier to impress the blue collar workers you supervised than it was to engage in discourse in university. As I've written in the past, you wouldn't have wanted me working for you because pretty much everything you believe in is bull$#!+. That's not ideological; it's simply a dislike of your arrogance. =Bob The link contains quotes from Bill Clinton, who seems to agree with my point. Of course you didn't read it. It was much easier for you to go on an uninformed rant. THAT is what you learned at "university". And that's probably why you had to put all that "learnin'" to use by carrying the mail. |
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NY-26
May 28, 2011 13:30:59 GMT -8
Post by inevitec on May 28, 2011 13:30:59 GMT -8
You were deployed remember? I wasn't. I was looking from the other end. I think I am pretty observant. I saw deployments wreck marriages, alienate children, cause drug and alcohol abuse, neglect and cause great unhappiness. I have talked with other Navy families and they agree. In fact, I did not see much happiness in Navy families except in those who avoided contact with the Navy and refused to move around, despite their involvement. I went years without venturing near a Naval facility. The attrition rate after the first deployment in the Navy was horrible, back then. The Navy infrastructure did not care. In my case, which was complicated, the Navy knew my situation, but did nothing. I can remember being hassled repeatedly by Naval authorities, watching my brother arrested walking down a street on a base because his hair was too long and watched an active process for neglecting families as policy. The Navy made me a real tough SOB. I owe the Navy Nothing. And, I am asking nothing from them. But as I said, I believe that the Navy has improved. I admire what sailors do, but because I understood what was happening to me my view of the Navy was, and is, complex. Complete different experience than was had by my family. We lived in Navy Housing when kids were toddlers in Hawaii and Guam. Very nice new quarters in a close knit community close to beaches where kids could play. No run-ins with any authority nor was anyone hassled. I question what was the cause of any problems that you might have had. You can make good outcomes with good attitudes. We lived in Navy Housing projects that were often officially condemned. Together with some of the really great neighborhoods we got, we are talking about a real high class experience. The best billet we ever got was an Air Force Base. I must tell you that family facilities there far exceeded anything I saw growing up Navy. I saw little of the cohesion you experienced in your Navy housing. Families were often in turmoil where I lived. My experience growing up as a Navy dependent was interesting. I am not saying it was all bad, it most certainly was not. But the Navy, at that time, would win no awards for their family support-none. And that was the point I made in the previous post. And that post was the truth. By the way, I usually have a good attitude. I will tell you that by most standards, I have had an unusually good outcome. I am a lucky man. I will say that I am glad your family had a good experience, because despite our outlook differences, it is obvious to me that you are a good man. |
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NY-26
May 28, 2011 17:10:00 GMT -8
Post by aztecwin on May 28, 2011 17:10:00 GMT -8
Fair enough. I know for sure that some of the housing in Hawaii down near Pearl Harbor was very sub-standard in the 60's. The folks that lived down there still had decent support and most other facilities were fine as well. It was the Qtrs that were poor. If I remember correctly that most folks that lived there paid less that the standard BAQ and it was voluntary.
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NY-26
May 30, 2011 6:53:00 GMT -8
Post by inevitec on May 30, 2011 6:53:00 GMT -8
>>>That "obscure district" basically encompasses the burbs in Erie County and Monroe County. It is overwhelming white and has been Republican for a very long time (this is Jack Kemp's district we're discussing. But please feel free to offer your ignorance about my home state again.<<<the =Perfesser The district isn't Jack Kemp's district. This district didn't exist in its present configuration until 2002. Kemp was NY-31. If you want to go by "NY-26" and claim that Repubs have represented for decades, you'd be wrong... Maurice Hinchley, a Demagogue, held the seat for 10 years, '93-'03. Your ignorance about your "home state" is amusing. BTW, when did you leave there? When you were pre-pubescent? tinyurl.com/3gdadm9More to the point, the district in its current configuration gave Obama 46% of the vote, and Hochul got 47% last Tuesday. A mere 1 percentage point difference. Your attemps to spin it into a massive sea-change is hardly persuasive. In fact it's bull$#!+. But that's what you "learned" best at "university". bull$#!+. davdesid, you sour, sob, the election in NY 26 resulted from the fact that Republicans appear to support the rich while trying to force the rest of us to be "more self reliant" and a smaller burden on the treasury. That you say the district is close makes the defeat for the Republicans no less illustrative. Mark my word, if the Republicans persist with this they will get porked in the derriere, the history of NY 26 and the torrent of money spent by the Republicans to save it, notwithstanding. |
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NY-26
May 30, 2011 12:50:22 GMT -8
Post by Bob Forsythe on May 30, 2011 12:50:22 GMT -8
>>>That "obscure district" basically encompasses the burbs in Erie County and Monroe County. It is overwhelming white and has been Republican for a very long time (this is Jack Kemp's district we're discussing. But please feel free to offer your ignorance about my home state again.<<<the =Perfesser The district isn't Jack Kemp's district. This district didn't exist in its present configuration until 2002. Kemp was NY-31. If you want to go by "NY-26" and claim that Repubs have represented for decades, you'd be wrong... Maurice Hinchley, a Demagogue, held the seat for 10 years, '93-'03. Your ignorance about your "home state" is amusing. BTW, when did you leave there? When you were pre-pubescent? You've apparently lived in California too long and don't understand the loss of Congressional seats. The 31st went bye-bye in 2000. you should have read your Wiki link closer; you would have seen this: Until the 2002 redistricting, most of this area was in the 27th District. During the 1980s this area was primarily in the 31st District.or, if you'd researched a bit more, you would have discovered that Hinchley is still a member of Congress for the 22nd district which was the 26th until '93 - it runs from the Hudson across part of the Southern Tier and north to Ithaca. It's far more Democratic than the 26th. Hell, during the '60s, the 26th covered Westchester County. See Dave, unlike California, the Rust Belt states have had declining populations for quite some time and every ten years the state gets gerrymandered by whatever party happens to be in power to reflect that loss. The district number may have changed as it was assigned to a new area but the area more or less remains the same and most of the old 31st is now in the 26th, which does in fact make it Jack Kemp's district. And yeah, I had to look some of that up because I know the area, not the numbers. I left New York when I was 17, in 1967. I knew and know the Northern Tier quite well because I've kept up on news from there. Anything south of Syracuse is another matter. =Bob |
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NY-26
May 30, 2011 13:09:45 GMT -8
Post by Bob Forsythe on May 30, 2011 13:09:45 GMT -8
And in the end, this is what you have to offer - nothing except a link to a right-wing website because you have no argument aside from the wasted time you spend on the net instead of actually thinking. There was a time that I believed you were intelligent but that time has passed because its become clear that all you are capable of offering are links instead of offering intelligent arguments based upon what you've learned - which apparently is pretty close to nothing. I'm sorry, Dave, but offering this or that website is pathetic. Offering websites instead of rational arguments suggests a lack of intelligence and I find it rather sad that you would lower yourself to that level. But that's your MO - instead of offering arguments, you rely upon websites. I have no doubt that you lack understanding of how that diminishes your arguments but maybe you should figure it out. Sooner or later you have to actually offer an argument rather than just pointing to what this or that Democrat said or did. It's really rather pathetic that the best you can do is offer an apples and oranges argument instead od engaging in intelligent discourse. But what do I know? Maybe if you'd ever engaged in academic discourse you might have figured out that offering this or that link will never cut it. Maybe if you'd ever been required to write a dissertation you'd understand how it works. But what the Hell - I'm sure it was far easier to impress the blue collar workers you supervised than it was to engage in discourse in university. As I've written in the past, you wouldn't have wanted me working for you because pretty much everything you believe in is bull$#!+. That's not ideological; it's simply a dislike of your arrogance. =Bob The link contains quotes from Bill Clinton, who seems to agree with my point. Of course you didn't read it. It was much easier for you to go on an uninformed rant. THAT is what you learned at "university". And that's probably why you had to put all that "learnin'" to use by carrying the mail. What I learned in college is that you don't just go to one source if you want to offer a decent argument which was the point of my mini-diatribe. As for carrying mail, when there is no work in the field you're working in because of the economy, in my case at the time that being archaeology, you get work wherever you can. I understand that being a military officer removes you from economic uncertainty but that's not a situation we all enjoy. =Bob |
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NY-26
May 30, 2011 13:18:18 GMT -8
Post by davdesid on May 30, 2011 13:18:18 GMT -8
>>>That "obscure district" basically encompasses the burbs in Erie County and Monroe County. It is overwhelming white and has been Republican for a very long time (this is Jack Kemp's district we're discussing. But please feel free to offer your ignorance about my home state again.<<<the =Perfesser The district isn't Jack Kemp's district. This district didn't exist in its present configuration until 2002. Kemp was NY-31. If you want to go by "NY-26" and claim that Repubs have represented for decades, you'd be wrong... Maurice Hinchley, a Demagogue, held the seat for 10 years, '93-'03. Your ignorance about your "home state" is amusing. BTW, when did you leave there? When you were pre-pubescent? You've apparently lived in California too long and don't understand the loss of Congressional seats. The 31st went bye-bye in 2000. you should have read your Wiki link closer; you would have seen this: Until the 2002 redistricting, most of this area was in the 27th District. During the 1980s this area was primarily in the 31st District.or, if you'd researched a bit more, you would have discovered that Hinchley is still a member of Congress for the 22nd district which was the 26th until '93 - it runs from the Hudson across part of the Southern Tier and north to Ithaca. It's far more Democratic than the 26th. Hell, during the '60s, the 26th covered Westchester County. See Dave, unlike California, the Rust Belt states have had declining populations for quite some time and every ten years the state gets gerrymandered by whatever party happens to be in power to reflect that loss. The district number may have changed as it was assigned to a new area but the area more or less remains the same and most of the old 31st is now in the 26th, which does in fact make it Jack Kemp's district. And yeah, I had to look some of that up because I know the area, not the numbers. I left New York when I was 17, in 1967. I knew and know the Northern Tier quite well because I've kept up on news from there. Anything south of Syracuse is another matter. =Bob No, no, I did read the whole thing, and I understand what you say. Much of the physical area was once represented by Jack Kemp, that is true. But some of it is newly configured, and Kemp has been gone for over a generation. Things change in generational time, and that district gave 46% of the vote to Obama in'08. Hochul got 47% last Tuesday. So, I don't believe opposition Ryan's budget ideas explains everything. There were other significant factors in that election. (BTW, there is a new twitter scandal brewing called "Weinergate". It could be fun, we'll see). I'm not buying the Demagogue spin about NY-26, that's all. |
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NY-26
May 30, 2011 14:09:38 GMT -8
Post by davdesid on May 30, 2011 14:09:38 GMT -8
The link contains quotes from Bill Clinton, who seems to agree with my point. Of course you didn't read it. It was much easier for you to go on an uninformed rant. THAT is what you learned at "university". And that's probably why you had to put all that "learnin'" to use by carrying the mail. What I learned in college is that you don't just go to one source if you want to offer a decent argument which was the point of my mini-diatribe. As for carrying mail, when there is no work in the field you're working in because of the economy, in my case at the time that being archaeology, you get work wherever you can. I understand that being a military officer removes you from economic uncertainty but that's not a situation we all enjoy. =Bob Archaeology? I thought your field was Poli-Sci. At least that's what you always seem to pound in our faces. Oh, and being a military officer does NOT remove anyone from economic uncertainty. It's an "up or out" system. Unlike petty county bureaucrats, slugs are weeded out. Fail to advance, and it's "hit the road". |
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NY-26
May 30, 2011 17:08:53 GMT -8
Post by Bob Forsythe on May 30, 2011 17:08:53 GMT -8
You've apparently lived in California too long and don't understand the loss of Congressional seats. The 31st went bye-bye in 2000. you should have read your Wiki link closer; you would have seen this: Until the 2002 redistricting, most of this area was in the 27th District. During the 1980s this area was primarily in the 31st District.or, if you'd researched a bit more, you would have discovered that Hinchley is still a member of Congress for the 22nd district which was the 26th until '93 - it runs from the Hudson across part of the Southern Tier and north to Ithaca. It's far more Democratic than the 26th. Hell, during the '60s, the 26th covered Westchester County. See Dave, unlike California, the Rust Belt states have had declining populations for quite some time and every ten years the state gets gerrymandered by whatever party happens to be in power to reflect that loss. The district number may have changed as it was assigned to a new area but the area more or less remains the same and most of the old 31st is now in the 26th, which does in fact make it Jack Kemp's district. And yeah, I had to look some of that up because I know the area, not the numbers. I left New York when I was 17, in 1967. I knew and know the Northern Tier quite well because I've kept up on news from there. Anything south of Syracuse is another matter. =Bob No, no, I did read the whole thing, and I understand what you say. Much of the physical area was once represented by Jack Kemp, that is true. But some of it is newly configured, and Kemp has been gone for over a generation. Things change in generational time, and that district gave 46% of the vote to Obama in'08. Hochul got 47% last Tuesday. So, I don't believe opposition Ryan's budget ideas explains everything. There were other significant factors in that election. I'm not buying the Demagogue spin about NY-26, that's all. There are always multiple factors in any election, but as soon as Jane Corwin endorsed the Ryan plan she was in the lead, but after Hochul jumped on her for it, the polls shifted. Kemp has been gone for a generation, but the Northern Tier changes at about the same rate glaciers advance. If there has been change, it would be a growth in independents. But Chris Lee won with 76% of the vote in 2010 and to me that suggests the public perception of Republican support for what they believed is Ryan's plan played a rather big role in the election. To tell the truth, I wouldn't be surprised if next year the district is back in Republican hands if Hochul doesn't show herself to be independent of the Democrat's more liberal votes. But honestly, I do believe the Democratic leadership will not hold it against her if she does (well, assuming it's core value votes only where she deviates) and I think that is different than what the Republican leadership requires). =Bob |
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NY-26
May 30, 2011 17:32:23 GMT -8
Post by Bob Forsythe on May 30, 2011 17:32:23 GMT -8
What I learned in college is that you don't just go to one source if you want to offer a decent argument which was the point of my mini-diatribe. As for carrying mail, when there is no work in the field you're working in because of the economy, in my case at the time that being archaeology, you get work wherever you can. I understand that being a military officer removes you from economic uncertainty but that's not a situation we all enjoy. =Bob Archaeology? I thought your field was Poli-Sci. At least that's what you always seem to pound in our faces. Oh, and being a military officer does NOT remove anyone from economic uncertainty. It's an "up or out" system. Unlike petty county bureaucrats, slugs are weeded out. Fail to advance, and it's "hit the road". I started out at City College and then SDSU as an archaeology major. I gave that up for two reasons. The first, and secondary reason was I was told in an upper division archaeology class that, at the time, there were 27 Phuds for every teaching job but mostly because after 2 week in a linguistics class I recognized that there was no way in Hell I could get a decent grade given my total lack of ability when it comes to understanding the structure of languages. I bounced around for a semester, taking some lit classes and then decided upon Asian Studies. Got my BA in that and then moved to poli sci for my MA. So in early '79, being out of a job, my next door neighbor, who had a degree in archaeology told me the guy he was working for on a dig in Irvine was willing to hire me and I spent the next 4 years doing that (all for private companies, BTW, so I did work in the private sector). I do understand the "up or out" concept. Keep in mind that my best friend's father did something like 37 years in the Nav, first enlisted and then as a Mustang and you served with his bro-in-law on the Midget and his father did 20 in the Marines. But don't assume us petty bureaucrats only have to get hired in order to have lifetime job security. For planners, each level has a year's probationary period and they can get laid off - I was out of work for 6 months in '74 before I got hired back because someone who worked there got a civilian job with the Nav. With the exception of advance planning, that deals with zoning ordinance amendments, code amendments, the general plan update plus code enforcement (a relatively small number of people), County Planning is full cost recovery and in a recession, jobs are in no way secure. =Bob |
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NY-26
May 31, 2011 12:39:50 GMT -8
Post by davdesid on May 31, 2011 12:39:50 GMT -8
Archaeology? I thought your field was Poli-Sci. At least that's what you always seem to pound in our faces. Oh, and being a military officer does NOT remove anyone from economic uncertainty. It's an "up or out" system. Unlike petty county bureaucrats, slugs are weeded out. Fail to advance, and it's "hit the road". I started out at City College and then SDSU as an archaeology major. I gave that up for two reasons. The first, and secondary reason was I was told in an upper division archaeology class that, at the time, there were 27 Phuds for every teaching job but mostly because after 2 week in a linguistics class I recognized that there was no way in Hell I could get a decent grade given my total lack of ability when it comes to understanding the structure of languages. I bounced around for a semester, taking some lit classes and then decided upon Asian Studies. Got my BA in that and then moved to poli sci for my MA. So in early '79, being out of a job, my next door neighbor, who had a degree in archaeology told me the guy he was working for on a dig in Irvine was willing to hire me and I spent the next 4 years doing that (all for private companies, BTW, so I did work in the private sector). I do understand the "up or out" concept. Keep in mind that my best friend's father did something like 37 years in the Nav, first enlisted and then as a Mustang and you served with his bro-in-law on the Midget and his father did 20 in the Marines. But don't assume us petty bureaucrats only have to get hired in order to have lifetime job security. For planners, each level has a year's probationary period and they can get laid off - I was out of work for 6 months in '74 before I got hired back because someone who worked there got a civilian job with the Nav. With the exception of advance planning, that deals with zoning ordinance amendments, code amendments, the general plan update plus code enforcement (a relatively small number of people), County Planning is full cost recovery and in a recession, jobs are in no way secure. =Bob Archaeology can be interesting. I remember years ago SDSU was doing some digs up on Presidio hill where the original Mission was founded, and they were digging where the Spanish had a military facility. Meticulous and tedious work, but exciting when something of historical value was uncovered. BTW, Midgett has two "T"s on the end. www.uscg.mil/pacarea/cgcmidgett/ |
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NY-26
Jun 1, 2011 11:12:36 GMT -8
Post by Bob Forsythe on Jun 1, 2011 11:12:36 GMT -8
I started out at City College and then SDSU as an archaeology major. I gave that up for two reasons. The first, and secondary reason was I was told in an upper division archaeology class that, at the time, there were 27 Phuds for every teaching job but mostly because after 2 week in a linguistics class I recognized that there was no way in Hell I could get a decent grade given my total lack of ability when it comes to understanding the structure of languages. I bounced around for a semester, taking some lit classes and then decided upon Asian Studies. Got my BA in that and then moved to poli sci for my MA. So in early '79, being out of a job, my next door neighbor, who had a degree in archaeology told me the guy he was working for on a dig in Irvine was willing to hire me and I spent the next 4 years doing that (all for private companies, BTW, so I did work in the private sector). I do understand the "up or out" concept. Keep in mind that my best friend's father did something like 37 years in the Nav, first enlisted and then as a Mustang and you served with his bro-in-law on the Midget and his father did 20 in the Marines. But don't assume us petty bureaucrats only have to get hired in order to have lifetime job security. For planners, each level has a year's probationary period and they can get laid off - I was out of work for 6 months in '74 before I got hired back because someone who worked there got a civilian job with the Nav. With the exception of advance planning, that deals with zoning ordinance amendments, code amendments, the general plan update plus code enforcement (a relatively small number of people), County Planning is full cost recovery and in a recession, jobs are in no way secure. =Bob Archaeology can be interesting. I remember years ago SDSU was doing some digs up on Presidio hill where the original Mission was founded, and they were digging where the Spanish had a military facility. Meticulous and tedious work, but exciting when something of historical value was uncovered. BTW, Midgett has two "T"s on the end. www.uscg.mil/pacarea/cgcmidgett/I did a semester and a half at Presidio when I was at SDSU. Also worked on Ft. Guijaros on Ballast Pt. the first two years they dug there. At the time I was at Presidio, the work on the barracks hadn't begun. We were still in the area next to the church (south side of the road). =Bob |
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