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Post by Yoda on Apr 25, 2011 9:20:30 GMT -8
I think day traders are speculators but those computer generated trades are mathematical formulae rather than people. Aren't they?
As I understand it, and I'm on shaky ground here, the computer programs move in and out of positions so quickly that there is no time for a human to consider the transaction. We'd just get in the way.
These transactions are entirely automated. The closer you are to the exchange and the bigger your bandwidth, the quicker your computer can act as it is programmed to do -- to buy or sell. We're sometimes talking thousandths of a second from purchase to sale. That's how we got the flash crash a year ago. As I recall, a programming glitch on one program triggered other programs to immediately sell -- and the market fell 600 points in 15 minutes.
Oops. I hate it when that happens. Unless I'm short and actually watching the market when it happens.
Yoda out...
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Post by aztecwin on Apr 25, 2011 10:06:27 GMT -8
What happens when your savings that you have lent to the bank are pooled and used to fund mortgages or business loans when those loans are packaged then resold? Who holds your mortgage? Most likely not the person who issued it and it is even more likely that the loan is serviced by another party again. Under our partial reserve banking system it is hard to track fungible dollars. I am glad that you agree that when you have saving you are making a loan to the bank. That is a start towards seeing my point that investing is owning and savings is lending. We use the bank, instead of our mattress, to forestall the risk of robbery or fire. Now can we take the next step and see that savings accounts are what we as a society, working through the market and our government, have designed to offer a riskless way to preserve principal as is possible? Now if we are talking about the risk of a meteor striking the Earth and leaving a hole the size of Imperial County all bets are off. Let's think about what savings is for. I tell my clients it is for short term goals or emergency funds. You are saving to buy a house in the next year or two. Tuition is due in six months. Things that you have to have the money. You can take no risk with it. That is what savings is for. Investing is riskier, and long term. You need the longer time frame for the ups and downs to all work out, in the long run, if you will. You also have an ownership position in stocks or bonds. Yes, you could own other things. Some people use real estate. If your investment adviser comes from an insurance background you will see whole life and annuitys in the mix. I came from a background in securitys so I use stocks and bonds, in the main, for reaching long term goals. You would never invest your downpayment in the market for the house you are closing on in 90 days. Too risky. You leave it in the bank. That is what savings is for. I don't think your attenuated example of how banks use the money on deposit to make loans that are then bundled into securitys that can be sold on a secondary market as being the secondary market for savings accounts holds water. Sorry, that is a secondary market for those securitys, not for your savings account. It was creative, though.  BTW, you jumped all over me awhile back when I said money was fungible. I see you have changed your mind. You are trying to define terms to suit your argument. In general, we are all correct. I don't recall jumping you about the meaning of fungible or the characterization of money as fungible. It was probably something else. Yoda also makes a point about speculation vs investing and in general that is correct also. I think you will find that most day traders consider themselves short term investors. The idea that they trade on technical indicators or on momentum rather than fundamentals is beside the point. |
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Post by aztecwin on Apr 25, 2011 10:07:53 GMT -8
Come to think of it, aren't more than 99% of equity trades computer generated transactions that are turned over in a matter of seconds or minutes? In other words, most equity trades aren't investing either. It is amazing to me the number of people who confuse trading and investing. Yoda out... It is with some trepidation that I venture this comment. I fear that it may start another long thread where we try to define terms adinfinitum. I call traders, speculators. They are certainly not investors. It is all in how you look at it as I said above. Hardly something to argue about unless argument is the goal. |
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Post by 78aztec82 on Apr 30, 2011 10:54:52 GMT -8
They got that idea from you all lefties who repeatedly referrered to W. Bush as "chimp" often by the lefty psotters here in these forums, how short our memories are... Bottom line is to be factual and not characterize the target and the point is better made anyway. There's an entirely different connotation to show an African-American as a chimp. The 2nd paragraph I completely agree with. =Bob Different? How so? Oh, because you can't criticize a democratic.... No -bob - this is the 21st century, there is one standard for all or we'll never get past old hangups. The world has moved way past mindsets like yours. |
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Post by aztec70 on Apr 30, 2011 19:17:38 GMT -8
There's an entirely different connotation to show an African-American as a chimp. The 2nd paragraph I completely agree with. =Bob Different? How so? Oh, because you can't criticize a democratic.... No -bob - this is the 21st century, there is one standard for all or we'll never get past old hangups. The world has moved way past mindsets like yours. Our military may have moved past that mindset, but there is no evidence the rest of the world has. |
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Post by aztecwin on May 1, 2011 7:13:37 GMT -8
Different? How so? Oh, because you can't criticize a democratic.... No -bob - this is the 21st century, there is one standard for all or we'll never get past old hangups. The world has moved way past mindsets like yours. Our military may have moved past that mindset, but there is no evidence the rest of the world has. I suggest you look in the mirror.  |
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Post by aztec70 on May 1, 2011 8:39:19 GMT -8
Our military may have moved past that mindset, but there is no evidence the rest of the world has. I suggest you look in the mirror. You are correct. I sometimes have racist thoughts. I try to be a better person in that way, but I do fail. |
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Post by aztecwin on May 1, 2011 13:55:57 GMT -8
I suggest you look in the mirror. You are correct. I sometimes have racist thoughts. I try to be a better person in that way, but I do fail. That is better. I am sure most of us have unwanted thoughts when something comes up to reinforce some deep rooted idea that you want to keep suppressed. |
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Post by aztec70 on May 1, 2011 14:17:42 GMT -8
You are correct. I sometimes have racist thoughts. I try to be a better person in that way, but I do fail. That is better. I am sure most of us have unwanted thoughts when something comes up to reinforce some deep rooted idea that you want to keep suppressed. How about you? |
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Post by aztecwin on May 1, 2011 17:04:25 GMT -8
That is better. I am sure most of us have unwanted thoughts when something comes up to reinforce some deep rooted idea that you want to keep suppressed. How about you? I think you could say that I am guilty as well, but try to be better and fairer. |
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Post by Bob Forsythe on May 1, 2011 17:50:04 GMT -8
There's an entirely different connotation to show an African-American as a chimp. The 2nd paragraph I completely agree with. =Bob Different? How so? Oh, because you can't criticize a democratic.... No -bob - this is the 21st century, there is one standard for all or we'll never get past old hangups. The world has moved way past mindsets like yours. Ah, I see - I have an "old mindset" while The Donald and the birthers represent the future. I mean really - you assume that we should understand that there is no longer any race-based politics in this country? How naive is that? You served in a military that had been desegregated for almost 30 years before you joined up, but that has led you to a limited perspective with the assumption that what is real in the USMC is real in civic society. I'm sorry that you cannot see that the attacks on Obama are race based, but I can't say I'm surprised that you don't. =Bob |
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Post by Bob Forsythe on May 1, 2011 18:05:34 GMT -8
I think you could say that I am guilty as well, but try to be better and fairer. To a certain extent I think vets have a better perspective on race than many others in this country because, since Korea, they've shared fox holes with African-Americans. The military was integrated almost 20 years before the Civil Rights Act integrated the South and sure as a Hell there is nothing more eye opening than relying upon a black guy or a Latino to have your back. But really, I do not understand how anyone could see the attacks on Obama as not being race based. The attacks are basically that he is "not one of us"; he's somehow different, his religion is in question, his birthplace is in question, by their reckoning. But all that aside, why is it necessary to engage in these sort of personal attacks instead of just going after his policy decisions? Why is it we've got such a large number of conspiracy freaks in this country that 51 percent of Republicans are willing to believe the crap tossed out by the birthers? Sorry, but you guys got what you wanted - a working class that hates education, hates unions and is willing to believe any and every conspiracy theory the radical right cares to feed them. =Bob |
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