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Post by aztec70 on Jun 22, 2010 17:48:42 GMT -8
The man came from the oil industry. He was the president of Halliburton, for gosh sake. He ought to be a gusher of good ideas about the Gulf oil spill. Where is the man now that we need him the most?
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Post by AztecWilliam on Jun 22, 2010 21:09:37 GMT -8
Well, for one thing he is not getting in the way. That's a contribution right there. In any event he majored in political science, so his expertise is not really what is needed in the Gulf. (But that would qualify him for Obama's committee charged with investigating the disaster. That group does not include any engineers or oil drillers, either.  AzWm |
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Post by monty on Jun 22, 2010 22:20:51 GMT -8
It is funny how we are told the market will decide what is best for us, that the government should open up areas for drilling, should stay out of regulations, and just stop interfering with business; yet, when something goes wrong, and the other guy is in an office and it is politically profitable to do so, the government isn't doing enough. Perhaps when these oil companies were posting 5 billion dollar a year profits in the early 90s they should have been forced to properly outfit their rigs and have safeguards in place, perhaps when those were becoming half a year in the late 90s/2000s that should have doubled, perhaps when that became quarterly profit it should have been quadrupled - but, instead, we allowed decades and decades of absurd profit raking to continue untouched because the constituencies don't care about the real issues or the outcomes, they just want to stick it to the other guy.Bush/Obama are playing golf/going on vacation and not doing enough, blah blah blah.
Will we learn anything from the absurd damage we've done to the environment? Of course not, because we want to find someone to label Bill Buckner or Steve Barman.
We are dealing with so much wreckage here that it will take a generation to make a reasonable dent in it. The blame here and with most issues in this country rests with the legislative branch and its roll as corporate puppet - even if a president decided he wanted to properly regulate business (and they are just another corporate puppet that sits at the top of a branch) congress isn't going to pass laws that might interfere with their funding in this perpetual campaign season.
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Post by AztecWilliam on Jun 23, 2010 7:13:57 GMT -8
But why would it be necessary to pass new laws in this case? The MMS had the authority to check these things out but instead dropped the ball. There was plenty of time, both before and after the current administration came into office, to adequately investigate the safety mechanisms of the Macondo well. That was not done.
The Left's answer to everything is to pass more laws when what is really needed is to enforce laws already on the books.
(By the way, the same can be said regarding the Arizona illegal immigrant law. . . it merely echoes the federal law, a law which the Feds are unwilling to enforce.)
I'm not aware of any serious conservatives, Republicans, etc., who advocate the elimination of ALL regulatory laws. It's tough to know how much regulation is enough and how much is too much, but this is an imperfect world and we do the best we can. In this case those tasked with certifying the safety of the well did not do their job. If we pass new laws and create a new committee or agency to carry out those laws, who is to say that those folks will not also drop the ball? The problem is not strictly speaking laws. . . it is people . . . fallible human beings.
(Oh, yes, the Gulf mess includes a real boner by Obama. His moratorium on deep well drilling could be disastrous. Those rigs are a huge financial liability to their owners when not operating. They will not just sit idly by while the One's committee-to-recommend-no-more-drilling twiddles their thumbs. Already Australia, West Africa, and Brazil have made overtures to the oil companies to bring those rigs to their waters to operate. What Obama's knee-jerk reaction in this matter amounts to would be like grounding all American air liners for six months because of one plane crash. Does the Prez not realize that his precipitous action will casuse the loss of tens of thousands of jobs during a time of great unemployment?)
AzWm
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Post by monty on Jun 23, 2010 8:09:52 GMT -8
This is a systemic problem, the enforcement or lack thereof safety regulations is a decade old problem, obama is no more to blame than bush, or clinton or bushI, or, or, or. Industries that have been allowed to rake in billions upon billions of profits while failing to properly outfit their rigs is the problem. I agree the laws need to be enforced, but they aren't and therefore something should have been done to enforce it and for these multi-nationals to actually reinvest instead of stripping oil and profits.
And the heart of the matter is a system that is an infinite string of campaigns at every office, kickbacks and sitting on various boards and lobbying agencies after office assures that proper laws won't be passed, the ones on the book won't be enforced.
That say Obama didn't change the system of non-regulation of huge profit machines in his first year is like saying Bush is responsible for 9/11 - these are system wide failures, and failures that will repeat in scope and catastrophe every couple decades - this isn't the first major oil spill in the gulf. And the labels of the left, right, liberal, conservative, socialist, free-market capitalist are out-dated (if they ever really had a date the past half century at least) and naive --- both 'sides' have many common purse strings.
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Post by aztec70 on Jun 23, 2010 10:12:22 GMT -8
But why would it be necessary to pass new laws in this case? The MMS had the authority to check these things out but instead dropped the ball. There was plenty of time, both before and after the current administration came into office, to adequately investigate the safety mechanisms of the Macondo well. That was not done. The Left's answer to everything is to pass more laws when what is really needed is to enforce laws already on the books. (By the way, the same can be said regarding the Arizona illegal immigrant law. . . it merely echoes the federal law, a law which the Feds are unwilling to enforce.) I'm not aware of any serious conservatives, Republicans, etc., who advocate the elimination of ALL regulatory laws. It's tough to know how much regulation is enough and how much is too much, but this is an imperfect world and we do the best we can. In this case those tasked with certifying the safety of the well did not do their job. If we pass new laws and create a new committee or agency to carry out those laws, who is to say that those folks will not also drop the ball? The problem is not strictly speaking laws. . . it is people . . . fallible human beings. (Oh, yes, the Gulf mess includes a real boner by Obama. His moratorium on deep well drilling could be disastrous. Those rigs are a huge financial liability to their owners when not operating. They will not just sit idly by while the One's committee-to-recommend-no-more-drilling twiddles their thumbs. Already Australia, West Africa, and Brazil have made overtures to the oil companies to bring those rigs to their waters to operate. What Obama's knee-jerk reaction in this matter amounts to would be like grounding all American air liners for six months because of one plane crash. Does the Prez not realize that his precipitous action will casuse the loss of tens of thousands of jobs during a time of great unemployment?) AzWm Oh, please, William. What drivel. The MMS had the authourity? Sure, but they had been filled with industry stooges by the former administration. I can not believe that you think their mindset would change over night. If you don't know that the Bush/Cheney administration did their best to emasculate the regulatory process you have not been paying attention. We are know reaping the harvest of what they sowed. Of course they have already been paid. Please define a "serious conservative". Better yet let us know who you think are the not "serious conservatives". |
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Post by aztecwin on Jun 23, 2010 12:49:53 GMT -8
But why would it be necessary to pass new laws in this case? The MMS had the authority to check these things out but instead dropped the ball. There was plenty of time, both before and after the current administration came into office, to adequately investigate the safety mechanisms of the Macondo well. That was not done. The Left's answer to everything is to pass more laws when what is really needed is to enforce laws already on the books. (By the way, the same can be said regarding the Arizona illegal immigrant law. . . it merely echoes the federal law, a law which the Feds are unwilling to enforce.) I'm not aware of any serious conservatives, Republicans, etc., who advocate the elimination of ALL regulatory laws. It's tough to know how much regulation is enough and how much is too much, but this is an imperfect world and we do the best we can. In this case those tasked with certifying the safety of the well did not do their job. If we pass new laws and create a new committee or agency to carry out those laws, who is to say that those folks will not also drop the ball? The problem is not strictly speaking laws. . . it is people . . . fallible human beings. (Oh, yes, the Gulf mess includes a real boner by Obama. His moratorium on deep well drilling could be disastrous. Those rigs are a huge financial liability to their owners when not operating. They will not just sit idly by while the One's committee-to-recommend-no-more-drilling twiddles their thumbs. Already Australia, West Africa, and Brazil have made overtures to the oil companies to bring those rigs to their waters to operate. What Obama's knee-jerk reaction in this matter amounts to would be like grounding all American air liners for six months because of one plane crash. Does the Prez not realize that his precipitous action will casuse the loss of tens of thousands of jobs during a time of great unemployment?) AzWm Oh, please, William. What drivel. The MMS had the authourity? Sure, but they had been filled with industry stooges by the former administration. I can not believe that you think their mindset would change over night. If you don't know that the Bush/Cheney administration did their best to emasculate the regulatory process you have not been paying attention. We are know reaping the harvest of what they sowed. Of course they have already been paid. Please define a "serious conservative". Better yet let us know who you think are the not "serious conservatives". It matters very little who appointed whom when the problem is a government unit that can or will not do it's job. This is another case where govenment has done more harm than good. |
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Post by aztec70 on Jun 23, 2010 13:17:33 GMT -8
Oh, please, William. What drivel. The MMS had the authourity? Sure, but they had been filled with industry stooges by the former administration. I can not believe that you think their mindset would change over night. If you don't know that the Bush/Cheney administration did their best to emasculate the regulatory process you have not been paying attention. We are know reaping the harvest of what they sowed. Of course they have already been paid. Please define a "serious conservative". Better yet let us know who you think are the not "serious conservatives". It matters very little who appointed whom when the problem is a government unit that can or will not do it's job. This is another case where govenment has done more harm than good. Was the question too hard for you? |
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Post by aztecwin on Jun 23, 2010 16:09:30 GMT -8
It matters very little who appointed whom when the problem is a government unit that can or will not do it's job. This is another case where government has done more harm than good. Was the question too hard for you? No, but the answer would be too complicated for you to comprehend so I decided to take the easy way! |
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Post by monty on Jun 23, 2010 17:22:56 GMT -8
It matters very little who appointed whom when the problem is a government unit that can or will not do it's job. This is another case where govenment has done more harm than good. Was the question too hard for you? I appreciate and respect William's opinion in that he at least gives an answer. |
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Post by uwaztec on Jun 23, 2010 20:11:02 GMT -8
But why would it be necessary to pass new laws in this case? The MMS had the authority to check these things out but instead dropped the ball. There was plenty of time, both before and after the current administration came into office, to adequately investigate the safety mechanisms of the Macondo well. That was not done. The Left's answer to everything is to pass more laws when what is really needed is to enforce laws already on the books. (By the way, the same can be said regarding the Arizona illegal immigrant law. . . it merely echoes the federal law, a law which the Feds are unwilling to enforce.) I'm not aware of any serious conservatives, Republicans, etc., who advocate the elimination of ALL regulatory laws. It's tough to know how much regulation is enough and how much is too much, but this is an imperfect world and we do the best we can. In this case those tasked with certifying the safety of the well did not do their job. If we pass new laws and create a new committee or agency to carry out those laws, who is to say that those folks will not also drop the ball? The problem is not strictly speaking laws. . . it is people . . . fallible human beings. (Oh, yes, the Gulf mess includes a real boner by Obama. His moratorium on deep well drilling could be disastrous. Those rigs are a huge financial liability to their owners when not operating. They will not just sit idly by while the One's committee-to-recommend-no-more-drilling twiddles their thumbs. Already Australia, West Africa, and Brazil have made overtures to the oil companies to bring those rigs to their waters to operate. What Obama's knee-jerk reaction in this matter amounts to would be like grounding all American air liners for six months because of one plane crash. Does the Prez not realize that his precipitous action will casuse the loss of tens of thousands of jobs during a time of great unemployment?) AzWm Hey wait William... I thought the Enviro wackos and NIMBY's had made poor BP drill in 5,000 feet of water? Sounds like the environmental wackos in Brazil and Africa pushed the oil industry out there as well....  I can't believe some of the stuff I hear and read from the "Right"...what ever that is. The bottom line is that we may have just f**ed up the entire Gulf for the foreseeable future. Sure it doesn't matter in geologic time, but tell that to those who depend on a clean ocean environment for their livelihoods in that region. Does it really matter who's fault this is? The issue is that we have treated the ocean as a big toilet for hundreds of years. Remember the famous line "the solution to pollution is dilution"? Well, the septic tank is backing up on us. If some of you guys on here had seen the same radical changes in our ocean environment that I have seen after 40 years of working in many of the World's ocean environments, you would be extremely worried. Do I have any answers....no. |
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Post by aztecwin on Jun 24, 2010 12:40:47 GMT -8
But why would it be necessary to pass new laws in this case? The MMS had the authority to check these things out but instead dropped the ball. There was plenty of time, both before and after the current administration came into office, to adequately investigate the safety mechanisms of the Macondo well. That was not done. The Left's answer to everything is to pass more laws when what is really needed is to enforce laws already on the books. (By the way, the same can be said regarding the Arizona illegal immigrant law. . . it merely echoes the federal law, a law which the Feds are unwilling to enforce.) I'm not aware of any serious conservatives, Republicans, etc., who advocate the elimination of ALL regulatory laws. It's tough to know how much regulation is enough and how much is too much, but this is an imperfect world and we do the best we can. In this case those tasked with certifying the safety of the well did not do their job. If we pass new laws and create a new committee or agency to carry out those laws, who is to say that those folks will not also drop the ball? The problem is not strictly speaking laws. . . it is people . . . fallible human beings. (Oh, yes, the Gulf mess includes a real boner by Obama. His moratorium on deep well drilling could be disastrous. Those rigs are a huge financial liability to their owners when not operating. They will not just sit idly by while the One's committee-to-recommend-no-more-drilling twiddles their thumbs. Already Australia, West Africa, and Brazil have made overtures to the oil companies to bring those rigs to their waters to operate. What Obama's knee-jerk reaction in this matter amounts to would be like grounding all American air liners for six months because of one plane crash. Does the Prez not realize that his precipitous action will casuse the loss of tens of thousands of jobs during a time of great unemployment?) AzWm Hey wait William... I thought the Enviro wackos and NIMBY's had made poor BP drill in 5,000 feet of water? Sounds like the environmental wackos in Brazil and Africa pushed the oil industry out there as well.... I can't believe some of the stuff I hear and read from the "Right"...what ever that is. The bottom line is that we may have just f**ed up the entire Gulf for the foreseeable future. Sure it doesn't matter in geologic time, but tell that to those who depend on a clean ocean environment for their livelihoods in that region. Does it really matter who's fault this is? The issue is that we have treated the ocean as a big toilet for hundreds of years. Remember the famous line "the solution to pollution is dilution"? Well, the septic tank is backing up on us. If some of you guys on here had seen the same radical changes in our ocean environment that I have seen after 40 years of working in many of the World's ocean environments, you would be extremely worried. Do I have any answers....no. I generally agree with you on most things about the environment. Don't you think that what has happened is not a "right" or " wrong left"issue, but one of a dis-functional government not only here, but in lots of foreign countries as well? |
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Post by uwaztec on Jun 24, 2010 17:05:51 GMT -8
Hey wait William... I thought the Enviro wackos and NIMBY's had made poor BP drill in 5,000 feet of water? Sounds like the environmental wackos in Brazil and Africa pushed the oil industry out there as well.... I can't believe some of the stuff I hear and read from the "Right"...what ever that is. The bottom line is that we may have just f**ed up the entire Gulf for the foreseeable future. Sure it doesn't matter in geologic time, but tell that to those who depend on a clean ocean environment for their livelihoods in that region. Does it really matter who's fault this is? The issue is that we have treated the ocean as a big toilet for hundreds of years. Remember the famous line "the solution to pollution is dilution"? Well, the septic tank is backing up on us. If some of you guys on here had seen the same radical changes in our ocean environment that I have seen after 40 years of working in many of the World's ocean environments, you would be extremely worried. Do I have any answers....no. I generally agree with you on most things about the environment. Don't you think that what has happened is not a "right" or " wrong left"issue, but one of a dis-functional government not only here, but in lots of foreign countries as well? No, I just think our ability to affect the Earth has grown exponentially over time and there are a lot more users using a smaller piece of, what was once, a huge....seemingly endless pie. Competition and demand is increasing Globally in my opinion. |
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Post by hoobs on Jun 25, 2010 18:29:04 GMT -8
It is funny how we are told the market will decide what is best for us, that the government should open up areas for drilling, should stay out of regulations, and just stop interfering with business; yet, when something goes wrong, and the other guy is in an office and it is politically profitable to do so, the government isn't doing enough. Perhaps when these oil companies were posting 5 billion dollar a year profits in the early 90s they should have been forced to properly outfit their rigs and have safeguards in place, perhaps when those were becoming half a year in the late 90s/2000s that should have doubled, perhaps when that became quarterly profit it should have been quadrupled - but, instead, we allowed decades and decades of absurd profit raking to continue untouched because the constituencies don't care about the real issues or the outcomes, they just want to stick it to the other guy.Bush/Obama are playing golf/going on vacation and not doing enough, blah blah blah. Will we learn anything from the absurd damage we've done to the environment? Of course not, because we want to find someone to label Bill Buckner or Steve Barman. We are dealing with so much wreckage here that it will take a generation to make a reasonable dent in it. The blame here and with most issues in this country rests with the legislative branch and its roll as corporate puppet - even if a president decided he wanted to properly regulate business (and they are just another corporate puppet that sits at the top of a branch) congress isn't going to pass laws that might interfere with their funding in this perpetual campaign season. Winner. |
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Post by hoobs on Jun 25, 2010 18:33:55 GMT -8
It matters very little who appointed whom when the problem is a government unit that can or will not do it's job. This is another case where govenment has done more harm than good. Wha?!? They were appointed, then spent the last several years snorting cocaine and banging hookers. And, basically, that is EXACTLY what the previous administration appointed them to do. Yes, it is DEFINITELY an example of the government doing more harm than good. Make that, BUSH ADMINISTRATION GOVERNMENT doing more harm than good. Anyone who doesn't like 'big government' needs to REALLY avoid defending the Bush Admin. Really folks, come on... |
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Post by aztecwin on Jun 26, 2010 5:34:00 GMT -8
It matters very little who appointed whom when the problem is a government unit that can or will not do it's job. This is another case where govenment has done more harm than good. Wha?!? They were appointed, then spent the last several years snorting cocaine and banging hookers. And, basically, that is EXACTLY what the previous administration appointed them to do. Yes, it is DEFINITELY an example of the government doing more harm than good. Make that, BUSH ADMINISTRATION GOVERNMENT doing more harm than good. Anyone who doesn't like 'big government' needs to REALLY avoid defending the Bush Admin. Really folks, come on... Why are they still there? When will you and Obama accept the responsibility that comes with being in power? |
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Post by monty on Jun 26, 2010 8:49:46 GMT -8
apparently in the hospital
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Post by aztec70 on Jun 26, 2010 14:48:53 GMT -8
apparently in the hospital Apparently if you put your head up your butt long enough it gets uncomfortable. |
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Post by aztecwin on Jun 26, 2010 15:11:36 GMT -8
apparently in the hospital Apparently if you put your head up your butt long enough it gets uncomfortable. I suspect that you two would know! |
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Post by aztec70 on Jun 26, 2010 22:18:42 GMT -8
Apparently if you put your head up your butt long enough it gets uncomfortable. I suspect that you two would know! Hey, I am just repeating what you told me. |
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I can't believe some of the stuff I hear and read from the "Right"...what ever that is. The bottom line is that we may have just f**ed up the entire Gulf for the foreseeable future. Sure it doesn't matter in geologic time, but tell that to those who depend on a clean ocean environment for their livelihoods in that region. Does it really matter who's fault this is? The issue is that we have treated the ocean as a big toilet for hundreds of years. Remember the famous line "the solution to pollution is dilution"? Well, the septic tank is backing up on us. If some of you guys on here had seen the same radical changes in our ocean environment that I have seen after 40 years of working in many of the World's ocean environments, you would be extremely worried. Do I have any answers....no.