|
|
Post by jcljorgenson on Mar 3, 2011 8:33:26 GMT -8
|
|
|
|
Post by mojo on Mar 3, 2011 11:50:07 GMT -8
Wow, that was scary! These folks sign up for the Honor Code when they enroll, like you agree to the CC&Rs when you buy a home, but sheesh! What a slippery slope. You're at the whim of the Code enforcer who hears the case. Very subjective. But they know it going in! Are there other schools w/ an Honor Code?
|
|
|
|
Post by 78aztec82 on Mar 3, 2011 11:58:21 GMT -8
Wow, that was scary! These folks sign up for the Honor Code when they enroll, like you agree to the CC&Rs when you buy a home, but sheesh! What a slippery slope. You're at the whim of the Code enforcer who hears the case. Very subjective. But they know it going in! Are there other schools w/ an Honor Code? Military Academies. |
|
|
|
Post by RB Aztec on Mar 3, 2011 12:16:18 GMT -8
Most religious schools, I would presume.
|
|
|
|
Post by rohpuri on Mar 3, 2011 12:17:01 GMT -8
"As a student activist, Sanders and some fellow students were once denied permits to protest the invasion of Iraq in 2003 because “it was against the honor code for us to question our country."
So according to BYU you have no first amendment rights?
|
|
|
|
Post by Dave L on Mar 3, 2011 12:26:03 GMT -8
Do we really have to start bashing them now for the belief systems? As noted everywhere...all students know what they pledging to attend the place...and they do so willingly. Our basketball team just possibly became the greatest benefactors of the BYU Honor Code/Belief System. I feel terrible for all of their players and coaching staff...but they would also say they stand by their code today. Lets focus on our good fortune...and what our team does with it. This would be a great thread to just delete.  |
|
|
|
Post by rohpuri on Mar 3, 2011 12:32:08 GMT -8
“We do not want on our campus any beetles, beatniks or buzzards. We have, on this campus, scientists who are specialists in the control of insects. Usually, we use chemical or biological means to experiment on them. But often we just step on them. [For] students, we usually send them to the dean of students for the same kind of treatment.”
|
|
|
|
Post by onelittleindian on Mar 3, 2011 13:00:42 GMT -8
Though extreme (to most), how sad is it that so many people are offended and appalled at the thought of moral and virtuous living.
|
|
|
|
Post by AztecFemBone on Mar 3, 2011 13:01:36 GMT -8
Me no likey thread. Close to lockey.
|
|
|
|
Post by Steve A on Mar 3, 2011 13:13:30 GMT -8
Most religious schools, I would presume. Most catholic universities are pretty lenient I'd imagine (I went to one, but obviously I can't speak for all of them). It's Pepperdine, BYU, etc...schools that have all kinds of brutal rules and systems in place. |
|
|
|
Post by rohpuri on Mar 3, 2011 13:54:24 GMT -8
Though extreme (to most), how sad is it that so many people are offended and appalled at the thought of moral and virtuous living. OLI, Nothings wrong with being Moral and Virtuous. But when that comes at the expense of ones constitutional rights such as freedom of speech, expression, the right to be free from unjustified invasions of privacy, self-incrimination, the right to due process (not sham due process which the honor code committee offers) then is it really worth it? When you can't protest your government at BYU there's something wrong there. One can be a moral, ethical, and full of virtue w/o having their constitutional rights trampled on. Yes these kids knew what they signed up for technically, but honestly, if they are brought up on honor code violations they aren't given a real opportunity to be heard or face their accusers. They can't even have a lawyer argue on their behalf. They aren't allowed to have a lawyer explain to them the ramifications of the honor code and what a potential violation means and how the appeals process is handled. The kids are left to twist in the wind. |
|
|
|
Post by temeculaaztec on Mar 3, 2011 15:07:40 GMT -8
Though extreme (to most), how sad is it that so many people are offended and appalled at the thought of moral and virtuous living. OLI, Nothings wrong with being Moral and Virtuous. But when that comes at the expense of ones constitutional rights such as freedom of speech, expression, the right to be free from unjustified invasions of privacy, self-incrimination, the right to due process (not sham due process which the honor code committee offers) then is it really worth it? When you can't protest your government at BYU there's something wrong there. One can be a moral, ethical, and full of virtue w/o having their constitutional rights trampled on. Yes these kids knew what they signed up for technically, but honestly, if they are brought up on honor code violations they aren't given a real opportunity to be heard or face their accusers. They can't even have a lawyer argue on their behalf. They aren't allowed to have a lawyer explain to them the ramifications of the honor code and what a potential violation means and how the appeals process is handled. The kids are left to twist in the wind. Private school, not public, so the Free Speech and other freedoms can be limited. The Bill of Rights protects against encroachment of government entities.....BYU is a private school and as long as it is not violating anti-discrimination laws (it does take federal grant money and Federally-insured student loans), it can make its own Free Speech rules....state schools can't do that. I am sure these kids understand this when they apply. |
|
|
|
Post by jcljorgenson on Mar 3, 2011 15:09:39 GMT -8
I think the main issue is that the "honor code" is clearly not black or white, it is very subjective. And whether or not it is true, it appears that for a BYU student, they are guilty until proven innocent. The good example is the protest of the Iraq invasion. Do you really think they signed a document that was so detailed that it clearly stated that they cannot question their country?
The message I am hearing is that BYU can just say something is an honor code violation when it drives the results that they want.
|
|
|
|
Post by aztucho on Mar 3, 2011 15:11:19 GMT -8
To me, the punishment is more ethically flawed than any of the acts they are punishing.
|
|
|
|
Post by hoystory on Mar 3, 2011 15:17:21 GMT -8
"As a student activist, Sanders and some fellow students were once denied permits to protest the invasion of Iraq in 2003 because “it was against the honor code for us to question our country." So according to BYU you have no first amendment rights? As I read it, they were denied a permit to protest on campus. Private school. Private Property. No first amendment rights implicated -- it wasn't the government doing it. Are my first amendment rights violated if you refuse me permission to hold a "Zoobs are great!" sign on your lawn? |
|
|
|
Post by aztucho on Mar 3, 2011 15:23:47 GMT -8
The biggest thing I take from all this is the following:
The Constitution and Bill of Rights are awesome. We rag on our government a lot, but if we didn't have them looking out for our rights, we could end up just like BYU.
|
|
|
|
Post by AztecPhil on Mar 3, 2011 16:53:56 GMT -8
If people will notice, the rumors around Brandon Davies are that his girl friend is in a family way. And if you look at the history of BYU, that seems to be the case with other players that have been suspended. So I would suspect that despite the honor code, athletes and other students have engaged in a little pre-marital fun. The trick is do not get caught. If something happens and she tells the guy it is time to think about buying diapers, then it becomes an honor code violation.
|
|
|
|
Post by RB Aztec on Mar 3, 2011 18:02:36 GMT -8
Why would any Gay person attend BYU? BYU is the university of the Mormon religion. The Mormon religion has a very firm stance on the Gay lifestyle. They are not going to change.
|
|
|
|
Post by The Aztec Panther on Mar 3, 2011 21:10:31 GMT -8
You know, this thread seems more appropriate for the Off Topic or Political forums. For that reason I'm going to move it.
|
|
|
|
Post by Bob Forsythe on Mar 8, 2011 16:24:24 GMT -8
Why would any Gay person attend BYU? BYU is the university of the Mormon religion. The Mormon religion has a very firm stance on the Gay lifestyle. They are not going to change. Just one correction; being gay is not a "lifestyle". As a straight male I find the notion of kissing another man abhorrent but that's me and as far as I'm concerned anyone who doesn't is born with whatever "gay gene" there happens to be. =Bob |
|
