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Post by monty on Jan 28, 2011 17:49:43 GMT -8
This has the potential to be a world, generational defining moment tomorrow. Tunisia has literally lit the fire that could see the biggest and most influential country in northern africa/middle east/arabic world seeing regime change around a young, secular, and collaborative uprising.
THese demonstrations also show the rising power of social media to light the tinder, and even with and perhaps because of a silly crackdown to try to stifle it, the people rose to the streets more than in the previous days with it. The people of Egyypt have been impressive: the minute christian minority has protected praying musems, they torched the HQ next to the Antiquities Museum and reports are they worked to keep the fire from jumping, they scarred off the 'thug' police force.
This might not be great for the US in the short term, but the type of demonstration and potential uprising will be positive for the world in the long run: a self-determining Egypt that is far more cosmopolitan than many parts of that world, could be a bright light for the rest of that world. The US needs to get in front of this and be an ally to what emerges and that starts by not continuing our 70s style Banana Republic/Shahs we have propped up.
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Post by The Great Aztec Joe on Jan 28, 2011 21:00:57 GMT -8
The simple fact of the matter is that Radical Islam will use the instability to gain control in each of these countries. World War Three is drawing neigh. Remember the Bible says the final war of the world will be between God (JHVH) and Satan (Allah)
All hell is going to break loose in the coming months.
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Post by AlwaysAnAztec on Jan 31, 2011 11:09:45 GMT -8
The simple fact of the matter is that Radical Islam will use the instability to gain control in each of these countries. World War Three is drawing neigh. Remember the Bible says the final war of the world will be between God (JHVH) and Satan (Allah) All hell is going to break loose in the coming months. Actually, Joe is right here. The Muslim Brotherhood is taking control of the demonstrations in Egypt and Jordan. This is not good for the U.S. |
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Post by AztecWilliam on Jan 31, 2011 14:38:19 GMT -8
The simple fact of the matter is that Radical Islam will use the instability to gain control in each of these countries. World War Three is drawing neigh. Remember the Bible says the final war of the world will be between God (JHVH) and Satan (Allah) All hell is going to break loose in the coming months. Actually, Joe is right here. The Muslim Brotherhood is taking control of the demonstrations in Egypt and Jordan. This is not good for the U.S. Tell that to CNN. Apparently they think that the Muslim Brotherhood is just a benign group that collects clothes and food for the downtrodden. Right! AzWm |
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Post by monty on Jan 31, 2011 15:00:55 GMT -8
CNN goes on and on about how scarred everyone should be of them because Muslim is in their name. The rights of 80 million people should be paramount as should the ideals this country coalesced and unleashed over 200 years ago. If our interests are interwoven with a lack of rights with other people, then we need to rethink our interests.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2011 15:04:24 GMT -8
It's not as earth shattering as all that. It's simply a loud way of changing leadership. If those in power refuse to subject themselves to the ballot, other means are required to remove them when they become unpopular. The problem as I see it is that these riots are really just a reaction to the increasing cost of food. Egypt has always subsidized food but was recently forced to increase prices due to market conditions. These folks aren't rioting to "throw off the yoke of oppression", they're rioting to get back more government largess. The last thing on these folks mind is a market based economy and more personal freedom. It's the same with Greece. The gravy train has stopped and they're pissed. The other interesting part of this story is the part that has the most relevance to us here in the US but nobody wants to talk about. The Egyptian government SHUT DOWN THE INTERNET! What is our congress currently attempting? An internet kill switch! What could possibly go wrong? According to our betters in congress, they would only use their powers for good. I don't know about you folks but I believe them.  Senator Susan Collins, a co-sponsor of the bill, said that unlike in Egypt, where the government was using its powers to quell dissent by shutting down the internet, it would not.
“My legislation would provide a mechanism for the government to work with the private sector in the event of a true cyber emergency,” Collins said in an emailed statement to Wired. “It would give our nation the best tools available to swiftly respond to a significant threat.”[/i] www.theage.com.au/technology/technology-news/as-egypt-goes-offline-us-gets-internet-kill-switch-bill-ready-20110131-1aah3.html |
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Post by monty on Jan 31, 2011 15:12:13 GMT -8
i wouldn't call them anything close to riots. It has been about as peaceful as a large congregation that is angry could possibly be especially once the storm troopers dropped out this weekend.
These events would not have happened without Tunisia, sure a worsening economy is the reason, but Tunisia succeeding is the cause. And if egypt succeeds, more tyrants will fall.
And you bring up a very valid point and the proper counter argument to the, i don't do anything wrong I don't care if the government does x,y, and z; giving them the tools to do so allows them to do so if they feel threatened, and the fact that a confluence (or maybe it's just two sides of the same coin) of the government and multi-national corporations run telecommunications, internet, and other services allow for them to flip the switch.
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Post by aztecwin on Jan 31, 2011 20:17:30 GMT -8
Looks to me like we should hope the Army stays in control and that Mubarak steps down sooner rather than later. What can Mubarak be thinking by trying this charade of appointing just another set of cronies to a government that he intends to lead?
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Post by aztec79 on Jan 31, 2011 20:21:30 GMT -8
its' 1979 all over again.
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Post by monty on Feb 1, 2011 9:59:00 GMT -8
its' 1989 all over again. fixed |
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Post by Bob Forsythe on Feb 3, 2011 18:40:46 GMT -8
I have no particular comments on this other than the fact it sort of proves my belief that Chaos Theory is the only method of considering human behavior. A Tunisian street vendor is told he can't engage in the vending without permits. He complains and a female official slaps him and insults his father. He complains to a higher official who refuses to see him so he dumps a can of gasoline on himself and lights it. From that one act, the Tunisian government fell, Egypt's government will fall and Jordan is quickly engaging in reforms although the Jordanians aren't all that pissed at the King so he'll likely remain.
Either way, it's a damn good example of the butterfly effect - the act of one person can bring about vast changes that cannot be foreseen at the time of the act.
=Bob
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Post by Bob Forsythe on Feb 3, 2011 18:46:22 GMT -8
Actually, Joe is right here. The Muslim Brotherhood is taking control of the demonstrations in Egypt and Jordan. This is not good for the U.S. Tell that to CNN. Apparently they think that the Muslim Brotherhood is just a benign group that collects clothes and food for the downtrodden. Right! AzWm They may not be benign but they are also not terrorists with the exception of their support of Hamas. They do not see themselves at war with the west and they and Al Queda don't get along at all. =Bob |
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Post by monty on Feb 3, 2011 18:58:24 GMT -8
I have no particular comments on this other than the fact it sort of proves my belief that Chaos Theory is the only method of considering human behavior. A Tunisian street vendor is told he can't engage in the vending without permits. He complains and a female official slaps him and insults his father. He complains to a higher official who refuses to see him so he dumps a can of gasoline on himself and lights it. From that one act, the Tunisian government fell, Egypt's government will fall and Jordan is quickly engaging in reforms although the Jordanians aren't all that pissed at the King so he'll likely remain. Either way, it's a damn good example of the butterfly effect - the act of one person can bring about vast changes that cannot be foreseen at the time of the act. =Bob It's rather breathtaking how this has spawned and multiplied. It also shows how desperate that region is that, as I said above, Tunisia could literally set the region on fire. That the actions of one can directly affect 1 billion is awe inspiring. Jefferson would be labeled a Terrorist today. |
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Post by monty on Mar 28, 2011 17:32:49 GMT -8
No one has the repellant to this fire.
FEED THIS FIRE!
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Post by k5james on Mar 31, 2011 6:31:09 GMT -8
No one has the repellant to this fire. FEED THIS FIRE! Exactly. Why is everybody so afraid of a little revolution? It's good for the our souls... |
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Post by AztecWilliam on Mar 31, 2011 11:37:08 GMT -8
No one has the repellant to this fire. FEED THIS FIRE! Exactly. Why is everybody so afraid of a little revolution? It's good for the our souls... For souls, maybe. When we are talking about people's lives, however, a revolution can go either way. Here in America, we got Washington, Jefferson, and the U.S. Constitution. In France they got the Reign of Terror, Robespierre, Napoleon and lots and lots of serious war. And we know what they got in Russia after 1917. AzWm |
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Post by k5james on Mar 31, 2011 11:48:07 GMT -8
Exactly. Why is everybody so afraid of a little revolution? It's good for the our souls... For souls, maybe. When we are talking about people's lives, however, a revolution can go either way. Here in America, we got Washington, Jefferson, and the U.S. Constitution. In France they got the Reign of Terror, Robespierre, Napoleon and lots and lots of serious war. And we know what they got in Russia after 1917. AzWm If we are the country nudging it along, which way is it more likely to go? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2011 10:11:01 GMT -8
It's not as earth shattering as all that. It's simply a loud way of changing leadership. If those in power refuse to subject themselves to the ballot, other means are required to remove them when they become unpopular. I rarely agree with you on anything but on this issue, I do completely. WWIII? What, like some backward country like Libya which is so militarily challenged that its army can't even immediately dispatch a ragtag, moderately motivated rebel force is going to attack some other country? That's just laughable. |
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Post by AztecWilliam on Apr 2, 2011 12:16:37 GMT -8
It's not as earth shattering as all that. It's simply a loud way of changing leadership. If those in power refuse to subject themselves to the ballot, other means are required to remove them when they become unpopular. I rarely agree with you on anything but on this issue, I do completely. WWIII? What, like some backward country like Libya which is so militarily challenged that its army can't even immediately dispatch a ragtag, moderately motivated rebel force is going to attack some other country? That's just laughable. Libya was capable to destroying a huge Pan Am airliner and killing hundreds of people. To do that sort of thing it is not necessary to have a first class army, navy, and air force. I'm not saying they will do that if the regime stays in place; I'm just saying that we cannot discount the possibility. AzWm |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2011 12:52:29 GMT -8
Libya was capable to destroying a huge Pan Am airliner and killing hundreds of people. To do that sort of thing it is not necessary to have a first class army, navy, and air force. I'm not saying they will do that if the regime stays in place; I'm just saying that we cannot discount the possibility. Following which Reagan ordered a bunch of cruise missiles up Kaddafi's ass and he ran like the coward he is while one of his kids died and he's been an international eunuch ever since. Kaddafi's a pathetic excuse for a dictator, as are all of those guys in the Middle East, including Assad. The only time any of those countries is dangerous is if some fanatical fundamentalist Muslims gain control like in Iran. Those guys are out for the glory of Allah, not themselves. For Kaddafi, Assad and the like, since it's all about themselves, they are easily scared into submission. Anyway, I'd love to see Kaddafi killed by his own people. He deserves it for the TWA murders and they deserve the pleasure of doing that POS in. However, if they are unsuccessful in ousting him, he remains no threat to us. In fact, the worse case scenario would be for them to kick him out only to be replaced by a bunch of mullahs. |
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